1120 réponses à ce sujet

[falconlord5]

This is honestly ridiculous.

 

I'll buy your game in a bargain bin a year from now after someone figures out a mod that fixes this bs.

 

So long, farewell, auf weidersehen, goodbye...

[aaarcher86]

This is honestly ridiculous.

 

I'll buy your game in a bargain bin a year from now after someone figures out a mod that fixes this bs.

 

I bet announcing it like this makes them care more.

[Paul E Dangerously]

So, basically:

- Everyone is gimped due to eight ability slots, console and PC users alike.

- Situational characters are effectively dead.

[Morroian]

He explained it in his clarification tweet, but the original response of "32 is a lot" doesn't really get to the heart of the question people wanted to know. We wanted to know why it was reduced, not be given a reassurance to look on the bright side.

 

There is a further tweet clarifying that it was done to add tactical options. 

[Zjarcal]

I'm still going with MP, because radial selection is too cumbersome for real-time play.

 

Very likely but really dumb of them to implement it in SP too, it's not like MP and SP have to share everything. SP could've had the wheel or a toggle for more bars and MP could just... not have that.

 

Whatevz, I'll adapt.

 

EDIT: Read Laidlaw's other tweet, guess it's just different design philosophy. Oh well...

[spacediscosaurus]

This is honestly ridiculous.

 

I'll buy your game in a bargain bin a year from now after someone figures out a mod that fixes this bs.

 

That's cool, no one cares, goodbye.

[umadcommander]

they should have just had a DA:O system where you can extend the bar as you need to, anyone who says thats "more restictive" is just talking out their ass

 

also preparing your party was something you did in the past anyway, y'know, cause they all had different sets of abilities on account of  being different classes and specilizations, its not as if going into this they thought "better limit the number of abilities or they'll all have the same quickbar!" for all the fuss they made about making a PC interface this is woefully disappointing

[PsychoBlonde]

Physical damage was never resisted to a point in DA2 where you would need to switch away from it. Whereas elemental magic was worthless against certain foes, making either the mage as a whole or the ability trees useless.

Your solution is just aggravation: know the encounter in advance, deal with the pain of switching out abilities you already have, when you could have picked them in the first place.

The strategy in D&D in terms of spells wasn't from the limited number of spell slots but rather the limited number of uses. It was "this fight" or "some other fight" type of choices.

Yeah, but you can also have other optional ways of dealing with it.  Say, if spells have multiple effects such as a combination of damage and a type of effective crowd control.  If the one isn't as effective against a given class of enemy, the other still may be (if they didn't do the rude thing and tie them together so that enemies that are immune to x damage are immune to the type of crowd control that goes with it).  So you're switching between being a nuker and being a crowd controller.  You're still effective.

And you're also assuming that all encounters in a given area will be completely unrelated, thus giving no hints as to what's coming.  If you enter an area and fight a few fire-immune foes, maybe that should be your clue that, huh, the enemies in this area are going to be largely fire-immune.

The tactical view also actually DISPLAYS factors like this about enemies.  So, no, you won't have to know every encounter in advance.  You'll likely adjust on the fly as you encounter a few X type of enemy, then a few more, then a few in conjunction with archers, then a few in conjunction with casters, then a big group of archers that you can't reach, then finally a big boss.

 

I mean, assuming they designed this to actually play well and not just be a big heap of random stupid for no apparent reason.

[Illyria God King of the Primordium]

Exactly! It's objectively bad design...on purpose! Why!? 

I would also like it if you responded to my questions about your somewhat large overreaction.  

 

WHY CANCEL PRE-ORDER?  A game that, according to your initial post and other comments had been winning you over, has one feature you don't like/think is a very bad move.  So what?  It isn't perfect?  Son, no game has been perfect since System Shock 2, and even that isn't actually perfect and merely within spitting distance.  I just don't understand your logic.  Please, explain it to me.  

[Father_Jerusalem]

Exactly! It's objectively bad design...on purpose! Why!? 

Soooooooooooooooooooomeone needs to learn what "objectively" means.

[In Exile]

So, basically:
- Everyone is gimped due to eight ability slots, console and PC users alike.
- Situational characters are effectively dead.

Situational characters were always dead because only a few abilities were really worth it and almost all encounters were identical.

[falconlord5]

Ability restriction in combat but not out of combat just does not make any sense. 

 

It is like saying a martial artist can only use 8 martial art moves in fighting. It is like saying an archer can only use 8 methods to fire their arrows and move around. It is like saying that sword and shield fighters can only use 8 block and parry moves when fighting. It is like saying a spellcaster can only use 8 spells out of the ones they learned. It is like a saying a student studied their arse off for a test and then somehow during the test, can only remember 8 facts and 8 equations. 

 

What the hell ? 

 

What kind of a foolish idiot would spend their time training, learning and mastering their chose combat styles, be it spell or sword or bow, only to forget all of them except 8 when fighting ?

 

What were Bioware genuinely thinking when they made this decision ? Were they even thinking at all ?

 

They don't.

 

But they may only use eight moves for a specific fight, which is all we're doing here.

[Krazy Krazer]

If I recall, the amount of abilities you can have depends on the resolution you had, so if that is correct, would you be less of a "mage" cause I got a smaller resolution than a higher one? 

[Enad]

How is 8 abilities a tactical thing? It's simply limited for no reason.

 

In DAO, a Mage could end up with ~25 spells. Why am I now forced to shuffle through them before each battle to make sure I'm okay.

 

I don't understand this decision at all?! What if I pick out 8 abilities for a fight then realize I could be using this other spell instead but I didn't put it on my hot bar...?

 

I'm especially concerned here as a heavy Mage player, why in the world would they think 8 spells is acceptable for a Mage? In DAO there were battles where I used just about everything I had. Why gimp us by locking us down to 8...?

[pdusen]

Exactly! It's objectively bad design...on purpose! Why!? 

 

http://dictionary.re...wse/objectively

[falconlord5]

So, basically:

- Everyone is gimped due to eight ability slots, console and PC users alike.

- Situational characters are effectively dead.

 

Hardly. You can still switch between loadouts, you know.

[Vlk3]

I think it's a bit immersion breaking. If my mage or rogue knows more than 8 abilities, why he/she can't use them in battle? They suddenly forget it? It has nothing to do with tactics...Even if I can use all the abilities, I need to choose which ones best apply for the current situation. And it may change during battle, especially, as someone mentioned here, during 15 minutes (or more) of dragonfight.

[AresKeith]

What kind of console treatment have you been asking about for months?  Consoles just found out that they're limited to 8 as well.

 

Didn't it use to be 6 for consoles

[Morroian]

How is 8 abilities a tactical thing? It's simply limited for no reason.

 

Like someone else said its a bit like the old Vancian magic  system but rpg game design moved away from that for a reason.

[Vapaa]

What kind of console treatment have you been asking about for months?  Consoles just found out that they're limited to 8 as well.

 

Console (well, controller, really) UI was bound to have some kind of limitation for access in real-time because there are only so much buttons on a controller, but it's not a problem for PC, so it shouldn't have been a problem.

 

And BW danced around the issue.

[AresKeith]

The joys of working with 140 characters.

 

Twitter should've changed that by now lol

[Father_Jerusalem]

How is 8 abilities a tactical thing? It's simply limited for no reason.

 

In DAO, a Mage could end up with ~25 spells. Why am I now forced to shuffle through them before each battle to make sure I'm okay.

 

I don't understand this decision at all?! What if I pick out 8 abilities for a fight then realize I could be using this other spell instead but I didn't put it on my hot bar...?

 

I'm especially concerned here as a heavy Mage player, why in the world would they think 8 spells is acceptable for a Mage? In DAO there were battles where I used just about everything I had. Why gimp us by locking us down to 8...?

Because this isn't DA:O?

 

Because they've built the game around every character having an 8 ability limit?

 

Because they want you to think about how you build your character instead of just doing LOLMANACLASHSPAM?

[In Exile]

Yeah, but you can also have other optional ways of dealing with it. Say, if spells have multiple effects such as a combination of damage and a type of effective crowd control. If the one isn't as effective against a given class of enemy, the other still may be (if they didn't do the rude thing and tie them together so that enemies that are immune to x damage are immune to the type of crowd control that goes with it). So you're switching between being a nuker and being a crowd controller. You're still effective.

And you're also assuming that all encounters in a given area will be completely unrelated, thus giving no hints as to what's coming. If you enter an area and fight a few fire-immune foes, maybe that should be your clue that, huh, the enemies in this area are going to be largely fire-immune.

The tactical view also actually DISPLAYS factors like this about enemies. So, no, you won't have to know every encounter in advance. You'll likely adjust on the fly as you encounter a few X type of enemy, then a few more, then a few in conjunction with archers, then a few in conjunction with casters, then a big group of archers that you can't reach, then finally a big boss.

I mean, assuming they designed this to actually play well and not just be a big heap of random stupid for no apparent reason.

All of this still reduces to rocks paper and scissors gameplay. AOE abilities are worthless if they don't cause damage to enemies but cause FF to you. That kind of knockdown doesn't add anything. And other abilities - like an AOE no FF paralyse spell - will always be useful regardless of situation.

That is the biggest problem with this ability gimp for mages. The variety in uses for a mage comes from both allowing them to deal damage AND act as controller characters.

Now a single mage cannot do this in DAI. But a warrior is still going to work as primarily DPS with one aggro taunt. Same with rogues.