1120 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Re the abilities, I've wondered aloud before whether the BioWare telemetry data could track ability usage in previous games.  It would not surprise me at all if they found that in the vast majority of games that people only used a select number of spells or abilities in any given game no matter how many they had access to.
 
I know this was the case for me as I used about 5 maybe 6 abilities constantly as a sword and board player and ignored the rest as just stepping stones to the next ability.  Same with spells.  In some spell progressions I would use 1 or 2 and never use the others.  Just a thought as a reason perhaps.

Yeah, telemetry data also showed that only 5% of players used dwarves, but they could apparently spend a ton of time and money implementing dwarves as a PC race.

This isn't Diablo III. I want more than 8 slots on my toolbar.

[aaarcher86]

(Sameul Jackson voice) Lady, this is an open world game where enemies tear out of other dimensions, spring out of swamps, hide in caves, and you're saying that you won't need to anticipate such situations? How do you anticipate a situation that is going to change by the second? How do you anticipate a group of enemies ripe for being Fireball-ed only to realize you don't have it on the quickbar?

 

Paying attention has nothing to do with it when you're in a game where combat takes place in very diverse environments with very diverse set of enemies, not to mention combat itself is ever changing. I'm not saying you can't play using only 8 abilities, only that it does nothing except frustrate the player by limiting him from taking actions by design.

 

Sorry, but this is a weak design where the player is constantly reminded of his inability to use his full array of skills to control the battlefield and is preoccupied with thoughts  such as "I could've used that talent right there because the enemies are in that position now. I can't because the talents are locked down, maybe I should just reload.", as he's losing.

 

They can paint it anyway they want. Throw words around like tactics and strategy as much as they want. It's not going to change the fact that they tied up gamers' hands by implementing this limiting design, all done for the sake of "console parity" and multiplayer coherence. I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. 

 

All of the demos we have seen have shown us that we see enemies before we end up engaging.  Obviously that's not going to happen all the time, but acting like we will be changing mapped abilities every 10 seconds is a bit extreme.  We've seen Redcliffe, Fallow Mire, and Crestwood... all places that we have an indication prior to battles of what we'll be facing. 

 

My whole post actually gave a few examples.  Of course they'll be some unexpected encounters, but I doubt they'll be something you can't handle with your basic 8 mapped talents.  Maybe re-read my post about it? 

 

[falconlord5]

You will still be spamming the few abilities you have because that's all you have got and cant change them instead of trying to use other abilities to find a solution.

 

Looking forward to dragon fights spamming the quick cool down attack while waiting for the other ones to be ready.

 

You do realize that you can change your abilites between combat, right? Customize them for the situation?

 

If you see (or hear tell of) a dragon in the distance, would not the wise player switch to a suitable loadout?

[Eelectrica]

Because this isn't DA:O?

 

Because they've built the game around every character having an 8 ability limit?

 

Because they want you to think about how you build your character instead of just doing LOLMANACLASHSPAM?

Actually this small cap means we're forced into doing just that. Finding the 8 most useful abilities and ignoring the rest.

[umadcommander]

While I am a bit disappointed by this, I am absolutely laughing my ass off at the outrage. 

 

Its a videogame people, take it easy, or maybe try going outside for a little bit. 

"bet you nerdz hav never seen the sun lol" plan your insults better you cretin

[Paul E Dangerously]

That's where I am now. It's an artificial (dumb tbh) limitation to make it "tactical," guess I'll have to deal with that unless FB is more moddable than they say. Whatever.

 

I think that's my problem with this whole deal. For any of the problems people had with Origins, "I have too many things my character is capable of doing, I need less" is not one of them.

 

It's like Mass Effect 2 all over again. Bioware threw out literally everything to streamline things, and people raised hell over it. ME3, for all of it's flaws, actually brought things back. Not just that, but improved on them.

 

DAI is really sounding like DA2.5 in a lot of ways. Same class weapon restrictions, no new weapon styles, now with even more limited abilities and ability slots. Did they really learn anything other than "repeated environments are boring" and "combat was too fast"?

[Father_Jerusalem]

Please stop pretending people are saying something they aren't. I never pretended at anything. I stated I am a long term fan, and I am disappointed in this move. I didn't demand they change it because the Old School fan base is superior, I just said they continue not to listen to this specific demographic. They owe us nothing, we owe them nothing. I am giving my feed back.

 

If you don't want negative feedback in a thread that's too bad. My feedback is just as valid as yours.

When you start out with "I'm a long term player who's been around since BG", you're trying to state that your opinion should have more weight than someone who first started playing with DA2.

 

By all means, voice your opinion. But don't act like you're morally superior to anyone else who hasn't been around that long.

[In Exile]

... or min-maxing your PC and companions to cover as many bases as possible and muddle through.... or quick save/quickload your way through all these massive maps where you're never 100% sure what you're going to blunder into without metaring your way through it. Hardly immersive.

Its a deliberate design decision to force you to play the game a certain way. Colour me unimpressed.

I don't think your first complaint - that you would have to min-max a whole party because of ability total caps - is actually a bad thing. I just don't think DAI will ever require us to actually do such a thing.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Seriously? 8 abilities? Was there someone who actually went "You know what? I have way too many abilities and I think the gameplay would be so much fun if you limit me every fight".

 

Now I'm wondering, are the companions still limited to eight when we're not controlling them? Because if they are limited even as NPC's, tactic building just got ten times more annoying.

[Morroian]

And yet, you haven't played THIS game which was designed around THIS system and are still prepared to call it a failure and scream profanities at BioWare?

 

You need to actually read the posts, I have been given reasoned criticism of why this is a poor decision. I am not frothing at the mouth like others. I will still buy the game and probably enjoy it. It is still a poor decision.

[Maria Caliban]

Since apparently no one noticed....

It's the highlight button. I'm glad they've made it more prominent.

[Skymaple]

Even in DA2 on nightmare you had to make sure you picked the right mage for elemental resistance. Presumably DAI will be the same.

As for situational, you'll presumably pick them in advance when you know the situation is coming. Which is the whole problem with this approach: trial and error gameplay.

 

But in DA2 with my mage, I had cold, lightning, spirit and earth spells + force + heal, and I could use them all at a given time (way more than 8 spells), but well, it's doable, I guess... only problematic

[Father_Jerusalem]

You will still be spamming the few abilities you have because that's all you have got and cant change them instead of trying to use other abilities to find a solution.

 

Looking forward to dragon fights spamming the quick cool down attack while waiting for the other ones to be ready.

Wait... you mean that when BioWare stated you can change your ability setup outside of combat, what they were REALLY saying was that "YOU ARE BOUND TO THOSE EIGHT ABILITIES FOREVER MORE! MWA HA HA HA HA!"

 

And yeah, that pretty much describes dragon fights in DA:O and DA2 too, so....

[Paul E Dangerously]

While I am a bit disappointed by this, I am absolutely laughing my ass off at the outrage. 

 

Its a videogame people, take it easy, or maybe try going outside for a little bit. 

 

The problem is, people are generally expected to drop $60+ on something, sight unseen. You can't even trust the media, because they've proved to be totally unreliable. And Bioware's just been doing their best to dance around a lot of legitimate questions.

[In Exile]

I think that's my problem with this whole deal. For any of the problems people had with Origins, "I have too many things my character is capable of doing, I need less" is not one of them.

It's like Mass Effect 2 all over again. Bioware threw out literally everything to streamline things, and people raised hell over it. ME3, for all of it's flaws, actually brought things back. Not just that, but improved on them.

DAI is really sounding like DA2.5 in a lot of ways. Same class weapon restrictions, no new weapon styles, now with even more limited abilities and ability slots. Did they really learn anything other than "repeated environments are boring" and "combat was too fast"?

Mages have too many crap trap abilities was a problem with DAO. The problem existed. The issue is that the solution to it is bad.

[Biotic Sage]

Yeah, telemetry data also showed that only 5% of players used dwarves, but they could apparently spend a ton of time and money implementing dwarves as a PC race.

This isn't Diablo III. I want more than 8 slots on my toolbar.

 

It is concerning that they are emulating D3 in quite a few ways that I've seen, since D3 is a pure Action RPG...

[Sylvius the Mad]

Welcome to play dao on consoles.

You couldn't pause and swap out during combat?

[XMissWooX]

So it was done for tactical reasons? That doesn't really assuage my fears.

 

I'm concerned that Bioware's desire to make the combat more tactical and challenging is going to alienate some players - players like me who come for the story, and have a go at the combat, but ultimately just aren't that good at it.

 

I was convinced that I wasn't going to make it to the end of DAO's story, since - even on the easiest difficulty - I was finding the encounters too hard and dying to even the weakest of enemies. To this day I still don't know how I managed it, but I've never been able to play a Warrior in a DA game since.

 

I'm really not looking forward to a repeat of that in DAI. 

[Chari]

You do realize that you can change your abilites between combat, right? Customize them for the situation?

 

If you see (or hear tell of) a dragon in the distance, would not the wise player switch to a suitable loadout?

Do you advise us to quick save every five seconds just in case we encounter a strong enemy? 

Charming

[falconlord5]

Actually this small cap means we're forced into doing just that. Finding the 8 most useful abilities and ignoring the rest.

 

Not really. You can change your abilities in-between combat. so you can switch to the most useful abilities for any given situation.

 

Admittedly, it's not something I'd do, but I don't use abilities that much anyway.

[CronoDragoon]

Actually this small cap means we're forced into doing just that. Finding the 8 most useful abilities and ignoring the rest.

 

That might be true in a game where enemies in every zone are the same, but that isn't true for this game. Each zone has a tendency towards certain types of enemies, and the game warns you about it beforehand with the scout system, if the Gamescom demo is any indication.

 

With different enemies comes different optimal spells.

 

I think everyone can agree that if 8 abilities are always the best for every situation then the 8 ability paradigm has failed its purpose.

[In Exile]

But in DA2 with my mage, I had cold, lightning, spirit and earth spells + force + heal, and I could use them all at a given time (way more than 8 spells), but well, it's doable, I guess... only problematic

This is only true at level 9 and later and only if you never upgrade the abilities. I didn't hit 9 abilities until level 14 or so.

[Morroian]

All of the demos we have seen have shown us that we see enemies before we end up engaging.  Obviously that's not going to happen all the time, but acting like we will be changing mapped abilities every 10 seconds is a bit extreme.  We've seen Redcliffe, Fallow Mire, and Crestwood... all places that we have an indication prior to battles of what we'll be facing. 

 

 

And if we haven't faced those enemies before how will we know what abilities will be best?

[Vapaa]

You haven't forgotten anything. All the abilities you have are still there, but you are only using a few of them to fight.

 

They don't forget, the use the abilities they feel would be best in that fight

 

So my mage who geared herself with close quarter damaging spells for an indoor dungeon... then ends in a very big room with lots of ranged ennemies, a big AOE crowd control spell like Blizzard should do the trick...oops she suddently forgot she spell the purchased with skill points

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mages have too many crap trap abilities was a problem with DAO. The problem existed. The issue is that the solution to it is bad.

They didn't. Depending on the party around them, almost all of the abilities were useful.