1120 réponses à ce sujet

[RealityMachina]

So it was done for tactical reasons? That doesn't really assuage my fears.

 

I'm concerned that Bioware's desire to make the combat more tactical and challenging is going to alienate some players - players like me who come for the story, and have a go at the combat, but ultimately just aren't that good at it.

 

I was convinced that I wasn't going to make it to the end of DAO's story, since - even on the easiest difficulty - I was finding the encounters too hard and dying to even the weakest of enemies. To this day I still don't know how I managed it, but I've never been able to play a Warrior in a DA game since.

 

I'm really not looking forward to a repeat of that in DAI. 

If ME3's any indication, they'll probably include a "Just here for the story" difficulty option for you and others who just want to play the story.

[aaarcher86]

Immediate usage is for me the key factor here, I've played ME on console and while I thorically had all the powers available using the wheel, the playsatyle kinda restricted itself to the 3 powers mapped on the d-pad.

 

This is the main problem: hiding less used powers behind a wall of menu is the best way to make them forgotten, and the very-situation-but-very-useful-in-that-situation skill will have less of a chance to get used.

 

This is a clear regression compared to DAO and DA2 in terms of gameplay variety.

 

 

Fair enough.  We just see it differently then.

[ghostzodd]

Eh, I guess all the hype I was getting from the game is kinda over

Ah, at least waiting for it won't be that painful

 

I think DAI is still going to be great Single/Multiplayer Can't wait to play, However the Devs are acting clownish.

[In Exile]

And if we haven't faced those enemies before how will we know what abilities will be best?

It's trial and error.

But someone made a good point that perhaps inquisition scouts will give us advanced Intel on enemies and allow us to prepare.

That's actually a nifty feature.

[The Night Haunter]

When you start out with "I'm a long term player who's been around since BG", you're trying to state that your opinion should have more weight than someone who first started playing with DA2.

 

By all means, voice your opinion. But don't act like you're morally superior to anyone else who hasn't been around that long.

When I start something out with '...' that means '...'. If you choose to read something else into it that is your burden to bear. I am stating my demographic, because it is directly related to my point.  If Bioware wants to listen they will, if they don't they don't.

 

What they don't need is someone running around trying to drown out every negative comment because they personally find everything in DAI to be perfect. Congrats to you. I am stating my opinion, every word was what it was, nothing more. If you choose to read something I didn't write there isn't a thing I can do about it, but I suggest you don't assume things, it makes your arguments seem like random fanboyism.

[Skymaple]

This is only true at level 9 and later and only if you never upgrade the abilities. I didn't hit 9 abilities until level 14 or so.

 

Sure, but from lvl 14 to 29 there're a lot of lvls and hours... >.< And I did upgrade most of them... don't know, we'll get used to it... but think about the situational/focus abilities If only we could change them during combat...

[falconlord5]

Do you advise us to quick save every five seconds just in case we encounter a strong enemy? 

Charming

 

On general principles, yes. The fact that you don't do so already surprises me.

 

However, I don't think that'll be especially necessary in this game. A good strategy guide, or even just paying attention to the environment (a dragon flies in and lands nearby, locals warning you that Red Templars are nearby, etc.) should give you enough warning to swap out your abilities.

[andar91]

You couldn't pause and swap out during combat?

 

Yes, you could. Not sure what they were talking about except smearing consoles.

 

On consoles, you could use abilities in real time from the face buttons or from the radial menu. You could also  assign abilities to the face buttons at any time.

[In Exile]

They didn't. Depending on the party around them, almost all of the abilities were useful.

The opportunity cost to their use was tremendous. Most spells had no business even wasting mana.

[ianvillan]

You do realize that you can change your abilites between combat, right? Customize them for the situation?

 

If you see (or hear tell of) a dragon in the distance, would not the wise player switch to a suitable loadout?

 

Even if you here the dragon a choose the 8 abilities you want you will still have to spam the quick cool down ones while you wait for the recharge instead of having other spells or abilities available to use in the fight. If it is a long fight like a dragon it is going to get tedious even with the abilities you have chosen.

[Biotic Sage]

That might be true in a game where enemies in every zone are the same, but that isn't true for this game. Each zone has a tendency towards certain types of enemies, and the game warns you about it beforehand with the scout system, if the Gamescom demo is any indication.

 

With different enemies comes different optimal spells.

 

I think everyone can agree that if 8 abilities are always the best for every situation then the 8 ability paradigm has failed its purpose.

 

I'm sure you can easily choose a 32 ability combination for your entire party that is balanced enough to get you through the entire game if you wanted.  Obviously if you choose a lot more anti-magic abilities when going into a mage-enemy inclined location then you'll have an easier time of it.  It might be more necessary to switch your abilities out more in Nightmare.

[aaarcher86]

And if we haven't faced those enemies before how will we know what abilities will be best?

 

You really wouldn't have any idea how to fight a Templar, or a mage, or an undead? 

 

If you really wouldn't, I'd assume your military advisor, your scout, or another party member would give you some kind of heads up.  You disengage, which is new this game.  Or you die, I suppose.  I didn't really think it'd take a rocket scientist to figure out some of the combinations though.  Especially in the beginning when talents/spells are limited.

[pro5]

I like the eight ability limit, and I'll tell you why: it adds another layer of tactics. Now you need to decide which eight abilities you need for each encounter.

 

I play The Secret World a lot, a game that has hundreds of abilities but only lets you use eight active ones at a time. (It even makes you choose which passive abilities you want in effect at any given moment, which DAI is unlikely to do.) That means that deciding which deck you want for any given situation is a huge part of the game. Do you want more emphasis on crowd control going up against a big group? Or are chain abilities that damage multiple foes a better idea? And you can forget about using Impairs and Hinders on those Nightmare mobs; better slot more spike damage and healing instead. Oh, unless you have to Hinder them before you can kill them. And do you want a deck that will let you move from one encounter type to another, or do you want something super-specialised that you'll have to change a lot?

 

So, yeah. This is a design feature I've got a lot of experience with in a different game, and it works for me there. I'm looking forward to having to think more about which abilities I want to use at any given moment.

 

I have a few concerns with such justification.

 

- It's only a tactical decision if you know in advance what your group is going to be facing. What if you are ambushed? What if you draw aggro from a different kind of group than one you prepared for? What about plot-triggered battles that start after a cutscene and you may not even see all your opponents or know their capabilities in advance? Both DAO and DA II were full of such encounters. Seems like in all those cases, you would be guessing as opposed to meaningfully deciding tactics. Or worse, you'd be using metagaming knowledge of what lies ahead from previous attempts...

 

- Frankly, it seems like an extra hassle. Suppose you somehow know in advance you'll have to face 2 different combat situations and decide to prepare for each accordingly. Before each battle you need to re-evaluate your chosen abilities for each party member. Remember, each character has different specialization and their own set of abilities on their toolbar. That means you need to go over this process for 4 characters (inquisitor + 3 allies). For the second encounter, you'll need to do it all over again. I suspect this ritual may be getting really old, really fast as the game progresses. While in DAO/DA2 I could just stroll to the bad guys without stopping and in each encounter use the mouse to click on the toolbar ability I situationally wanted to use...

 

- It's immersion breaking. It does not make sense for a character to suddenly forget how to use abilities they used a few minutes ago just because player swapped them out on a toolbar. I know - gameplay mechanics, they aren't supposed to "make sense", etc... But in this case it seems too absurd, and I would be reminded of this every time I wanted to use an ability I forgot to map to the toolbar. Maybe it does not matter for MMO players such as yourself, but I would prefer strange gameplay mechanics did not break my immersion into the fantasy world Bioware crafted.

 

So if they're really doing all this (limiting number of mapped abilities to 8 + removing possibility to use unmapped abilities + removing possibility to remap abilities while in combat), then yes, I'm very concerned with these changes.

[Cassandra Saturn]

some players will be mad about that, but little do they know it will be good for them.

[In Exile]

Sure, but from lvl 14 to 29 there're a lot of lvls and hours... >.< And I did upgrade most of them... don't know, we'll get used to it... but think about the situational/focus abilities If only we could change them during combat...

I'm not disagreeing. I don't like this "feature". I'm just saying it's only a problem after the mid-game and with upgrades you'll really only ever get about 12-13 active abilities.

[RifuloftheWest]

The limit to 8 abilities during combat is very disappointing.

 

I realize that consoles have the same limitation but I was very much looking forward to being able to utilize the many available buttons on my keyboard as I did in DAO (and somewhat in DA2). My initial gut reaction: this sucks!

 

However, I am also curious if combat encounters were actually designed and balanced with the 8 ability restriction and how the game play experience will actually feel. That said, I'll just have to adapt and hope their is more to this design decision than just an arbitrary limitation. If it turns out to simply be annoying, then I will just have to keep an eye out for mods that will address it.

[falconlord5]

So my mage who geared herself with close quarter damaging spells for an indoor dungeon... then ends in a very big room with lots of ranged ennemies, a big AOE crowd control spell like Blizzard should do the trick...oops she suddently forgot she spell the purchased with skill points

 

But she didn't. She still has the spell, she just needs to make sure she takes her time before going into the room to swap to her AOE spells.

 

I mean, come on. Pokémon has tougher restrictions than this.

[umadcommander]

hahahahahahahahahahaha

 

Like I said, relax brah brah all this stress is bad for your health! 

you seem like the sort of person that would use "brah" in real conversation too sadly enough, you wouldnt happen to be from new jersey would you?

[Father_Jerusalem]

When I start something out with '...' that means '...'. If you choose to read something else into it that is your burden to bear. I am stating my demographic, because it is directly related to my point.  If Bioware wants to listen they will, if they don't they don't.

 

What they don't need is someone running around trying to drown out every negative comment because they personally find everything in DAI to be perfect. Congrats to you. I am stating my opinion, every word was what it was, nothing more. If you choose to read something I didn't write there isn't a thing I can do about it, but I suggest you don't assume things, it makes your arguments seem like random fanboyism.

And perhaps you need to learn how to read. Specifically when I say "By all means, voice your opinion".

 

Go for it. Say you don't like it. PLENTY of people are doing so rationally.

 

When you do an argument from authority, when people accuse BioWare of "sucking EA's ****", when people rage "PREORDER CANCELLED!"

 

Yeah. I'm going to make fun of you.

[AresKeith]

So my mage who geared herself with close quarter damaging spells for an indoor dungeon... then ends in a very big room with lots of ranged ennemies, a big AOE crowd control spell like Blizzard should do the trick...oops she suddently forgot she spell the purchased with skill points

 

So the UI is now the PCs mind? 

 

That's when you switch out to the abilities you want to use for the big room

[Morroian]

And perhaps you need to learn how to read. Specifically when I say "By all means, voice your opinion".

 

Go for it. Say you don't like it. PLENTY of people are doing so rationally.

 

When you do an argument from authority, when people accuse BioWare of "sucking EA's ****", when people rage "PREORDER CANCELLED!"

 

Yeah. I'm going to make fun of you.

 

Hmm yet you're trying to make fun of even those arguing against this decision rationally.

[Jayce]

I don't think your first complaint - that you would have to min-max a whole party because of ability total caps - is actually a bad thing. I just don't think DAI will ever require us to actually do such a thing.

 

The only way we'll know for sure is when we play it. Until then, I'm much more dubious about it than you, In Exile.

[CronoDragoon]

I'm sure you can easily choose a 32 ability combination for your entire party that is balanced enough to get you through the entire game if you wanted.

 

Right, I mean people could steamroll Origins and DA2 similarly, but I'm referencing more the min-max mentality of higher difficulties, as you said.

 

My hope is that the increased enemy diversity combined with the ability limit and increased focus on tactical teamwork will actually force me to use more abilities on the whole than I ever did in Origins and DA2.