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First Look at the PC UI for DAI


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#1051
PsychoBlonde

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Why should your character be aware of a gameplay mechanic?

 

In Sylvius' world, there is no "gameplay" and thus no "gameplay mechanics".  His characters are "people" living in a "world" and the "gameplay" is the "physics" of that world.  So if he can only use 8 abilities per character, the characters themselves in their "real world" must have some "justification" for why they can only use 8 abilities--either that they only HAVE 8 abilities, or that something, somehow, is physically restraining them from using more than 8.

 

I like to have a "physics" of the game world in the sense that I don't want enemies and allies to be on completely different scales using completely different and unrelated abilities that operate under different rules.  I find that pretty tiresome most of the time, but if the gameplay is reasonably balanced and interesting, I can overlook it.  (A LOT of games give enemies abilities players have no access to.  But the converse is also often true.)  Sylvius wants gameplay that somehow creates an entirely internally-consistent "world".

The funny part is that he refuses to come up with his own justifications--he expects them to be provided for him by the game (or, at least, not impeded by the game, in the case of his roleplaying headcanon).  But the devs don't care about that sort of thing.  They're making a game, not a Thedas Simulation.

 

As far as I'm concerned, *esthetic* realism is great--I like armor and weapons that at least *look* functional (and don't float six inches off your back), buildings that look like someone could live in them (instead of a bunch of boxes connected by rectangles), etc.  When it comes to purely mechanical gameplay--if it's a functional system that's actually fun and interesting, screw anything else.  Eight abilities?  I'll take FIVE if it keeps me INTERESTED in the combat for the entire game (and maybe even for a couple of extra playthroughs, please!).  Granted, it may not.  But I'm not going to assume that it won't for various completely spurious rationales such as "well in tabletop . . ." or "in the other games . . ." or even "well in REAL LIFE you don't forget things between encounters . . ." IT IS A GAME.  There is no reason why it should reflect any qualities of other games or anything that happens in real life--in fact, it should discard both as an impedance if it interferes with system functionality.

 

One can argue that a system that doesn't have this *type* of system functionality might be a *better* system in some respects or even possibly in all respects.  It might even be true.  Origins and DA2 were not inspired systems.  They were barely serviceable and certainly painfully dull in their tiny scope.  Does this new UI information point to DA:I being better?  No.  Does it point to it being worse overall, as a coherent game with interesting mechanics?  Not really.

 

The ONLY mechanical thing I've seen thus far that REALLY seems to point one way or another is the crafting system, which seems to be an order of magnitude better than any crafting that's come out of this series SO far. 

But if it's ONLY as good as Origins or DA2 (mechanically, gameplay wise) I'll be pretty happy.  I played both of those games through more than once, which to me is well worth the money, and I love preorder swag so it's preorders for me all the way with these games.  It doesn't bug me one whit if other people would rather not preorder.  I don't even really care if the game is a financial success or not.  I'm just looking forward to playing it.  I expect to enjoy it quite a lot.  But I don't see that there's much value in placing a lot of complicated and specific limitations on exactly what I will or won't participate in enjoying.  Take it on its own terms.  Don't load it up with three tons of freight and expect it to fly.


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#1052
PsychoBlonde

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How can you expect me to play with just 8 abilities for 150 hours... how bloody boring is that...

I've got almost 250 hours played on a single character in Diablo III and you only get SIX abilities on them.



#1053
Chiramu

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That PC UI looks amazing. It's so pretty, I love it (。’▽’。)♡.



#1054
PsychoBlonde

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There's a surprising amount of people who only play as their character and just leave the companions on auto-pilot.

 

I don't understand it, but...

 

I prefer to play like this because I don't like switching viewpoints or pausing--I prefer to play in realtime as much as possible and from a single character viewpoint.  But it's not quite "auto-pilot" exactly.  And the tactical view may make that invalid by giving me a free-camera mode that doesn't involve being glued to a particular character's viewpoint.

 

That, and playing the companions extensively and actively tends to burn me out on trying other classes for my PC, since the NPC's have pretty much all the abilities I'd be trying out for myself.



#1055
Sylvius the Mad

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I don't think this 8 ability limitation is necessarily a bad thing.  It doesn't have to be, depending how the rest of the game works.

 

But they're doing a terrible job of selling it to me.  I mean, they released this late in the day on a Friday before a long weekend.  That's a great time to release things you don't expect to be well-received.  I have worked for two organizations that were intensely concerned with public perception (one was a political party, the other had a tendency to say crazy things on purpose).  You don't release information late on a Friday before a long weekend if you want people to see it.  You do that when you hope people don't.

 

And yet, on its own, this isn't necessarily bad news.  But the justifications being offered for it are terrible.  I'm more annoyed with the messaging and the poorly thought out rationalisations than I am with the actual feature.



#1056
The Night Haunter

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I've got almost 250 hours played on a single character in Diablo III and you only get SIX abilities on them.

I hope this comparison is the closest DA ever, ever gets to Diablo 3 (or 2 for that matter).

 

Because something works in a different genre doesn't mean it'll work in this genre.

 

Having said that, I don't think DAI will suffer too much from this 8 ability limit. Rogues and Warriors probably won't notice it too much, but mages will. However, if it is possible to have Tactics set up that utilize abilities not in your ability bar then this will relieve much of the problem. I'm still looking forward to DAI and we'll see how this actually plays out.


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#1057
Sylvius the Mad

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That, and playing the companions extensively and actively tends to burn me out on trying other classes for my PC, since the NPC's have pretty much all the abilities I'd be trying out for myself.

I find the combinations interesting.  For example, I really enjoyed the two-archer run I did through DAO (with a Dalish Rogue Warden and Sten as dedicated archers).  They got along really well, so I just always had two archers.  That created some interesting tactical situations, as well.

 

But it's easier to do that sort of thing if the classes are less strict, and if I can repurpose the companions as I see fit (Sten as an archer?).



#1058
metatheurgist

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There's no in-universe explanation for ability cooldowns, or why we can carry a crap ton of equipment that would be impossible in real life, or how we can survive attacks that would definitely kill you for real, or that we can apparently traipse around the country in hours. But no one complains about those...


Well...actually I do. I really hate the backpack system. It's definitely a step back from individual inventories for me. When RPGs had food you couldn't traipse around for hours, you need to sleep in BG. There are also people that want "realistic" combat in RPGs. So I guess 8 slots is just a continuing degradation and gamification of RPGs.

#1059
mugwuffin1986

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That, and playing the companions extensively and actively tends to burn me out on trying other classes for my PC, since the NPC's have pretty much all the abilities I'd be trying out for myself.

 

 

 

I believe this plays directly into the new 8 ability system. 

 

Currently you have 3 core classes... Warrior, Rogue & Mage, these 8 ability slots could effectively create new sub-classes.

 

Using the multiplayer as an example; you have the Archer (Rogue), Assassain (Rogue) & Alchemist (Rogue), 3 completely different play styles from the same core class. 

 

In Origins & DA2 you have a lot of abilities at any given time from every talent tree under the sun... you become a jack of all trades and a master of none, there's no thought put into building the character. Access to all the abilities isn't good design... there's no design put into that at all.

 

But we won't really know until November.



#1060
PsychoBlonde

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I don't think this 8 ability limitation is necessarily a bad thing.  It doesn't have to be, depending how the rest of the game works.

 

But they're doing a terrible job of selling it to me.  I mean, they released this late in the day on a Friday before a long weekend.  That's a great time to release things you don't expect to be well-received.  I have worked for two organizations that were intensely concerned with public perception (one was a political party, the other had a tendency to say crazy things on purpose).  You don't release information late on a Friday before a long weekend if you want people to see it.  You do that when you hope people don't.

 

And yet, on its own, this isn't necessarily bad news.  But the justifications being offered for it are terrible.  I'm more annoyed with the messaging and the poorly thought out rationalisations than I am with the actual feature.

That makes sense.  I mean, I would have liked to have some questions answered--I even posted one, about whether you get item slots per character or for the whole party.  But I have to say compared to some of the message mismanagement in the past, this isn't too bad.  Not great, but not too bad.  At least it's not a trailer with Marilyn Manson music on it.



#1061
Bfler

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Do we have pictures of the menus, like journal or inventory? 

Because today most of the games have only the sterile console menus, like in DA2 or vanilla Skyrim, but I prefer  e.g. such things, like the book with the char stats, spells in DA:O. 



#1062
PsychoBlonde

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Well...actually I do. I really hate the backpack system. It's definitely a step back from individual inventories for me. When RPGs had food you couldn't traipse around for hours, you need to sleep in BG. There are also people that want "realistic" combat in RPGs. So I guess 8 slots is just a continuing degradation and gamification of RPGs.

 

You object to the "gamification" of something that has the word "game" in the description?  How does that even work?


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#1063
In Exile

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There's a surprising amount of people who only play as their character and just leave the companions on auto-pilot.

 

I don't understand it, but...

 

Even if you use the entire party, you can still like to lead with your "main" character who you control primarily and who is the star of the party e.g. the main damage dealer or whatever "star" would mean to you. This DA:I system works to undermine that type of approach. 



#1064
PsychoBlonde

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Do we have pictures of the menus, like journal or inventory? 

Because today most of the games have only the sterile console menus, like in DA2 or vanilla Skyrim, but I prefer  e.g. such things, like the book with the char stats, spells in DA:O. 

I haven't seen any journal yet, but it's probably safe to assume that the inventory looks pretty much like the console inventory that's been in videos thus far.  While the KB&M setup requires a different UI setup, scrolling through inventory isn't so exacting and they probably went with one system for everybody if only to save some zots.  Very limited mileage out of making the inventory prettier.



#1065
PsychoBlonde

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Even if you use the entire party, you can still like to lead with your "main" character who you control primarily and who is the star of the party e.g. the main damage dealer or whatever "star" would mean to you. This DA:I system works to undermine that type of approach. 

 

Maybe, although apparently the Inquisitor get some special star powers regardless that'll make him/her pretty prominent.



#1066
In Exile

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That makes sense.  I mean, I would have liked to have some questions answered--I even posted one, about whether you get item slots per character or for the whole party.  But I have to say compared to some of the message mismanagement in the past, this isn't too bad.  Not great, but not too bad.  At least it's not a trailer with Marilyn Manson music on it.

 

To follow up on Sylvius's post, we have lots of ways that the 8 ability limit could create interesting gameplay situations. For example, we might have particularly effective 3 person combos using one ability from each class to create devastating cumulative effects. 

 

At minimum, if we got any information about the combat - mechanics, ability trees, description of basic stats - we could theory craft. But so far all we have is some indication MP and SP had to have synergy on gameplay, and a bunch of videos using the console UI that are all about action-RPG gameplay in real-time. 


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#1067
In Exile

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Maybe, although apparently the Inquisitor get some special star powers regardless that'll make him/her pretty prominent.

That makes it worse, since now you'll have to presumably pick between using any of those and the usual abilities. 

 

If those abilities aren't absolutely OP, we'll never use the unique powers because they'll waste a slot an OP general class ability could have taken up instead. 



#1068
mugwuffin1986

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Even if you use the entire party, you can still like to lead with your "main" character who you control primarily and who is the star of the party e.g. the main damage dealer or whatever "star" would mean to you. This DA:I system works to undermine that type of approach. 

 

Not at all.

 

What if you play as a Spirit Healer mage, you'll want a party composition to support that role. What if you want to be a Sword & Board warrior tank, once again you'll need to build a party to support that role.

 

You have a party, this is not Skyrim, this is not the Witcher or some other solo hero game... this is Dragon Age.

 

Use the companions, the game is designed that way.



#1069
PsychoBlonde

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That makes it worse, since now you'll have to presumably pick between using any of those and the usual abilities. 

 

If those abilities aren't absolutely OP, we'll never use the unique powers because they'll waste a slot an OP general class ability could have taken up instead. 

 

Eww, I hope not.  That would be goofy.

 

That would make a good question, btw.  Do "Inquisitor powers" take up a slot?  Do they even work the same way as "regular" abilities?



#1070
PsychoBlonde

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Use the companions, the game is designed that way.

 

Yeah, except that I sometimes use them for cannon fodder/human shields, is all.



#1071
Degenerate Rakia Time

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There's a surprising amount of people who only play as their character and just leave the companions on auto-pilot.

 

I don't understand it, but...

i cant talk about others but personally since i play on easy (or was it very easy?) i dont need to control the companions :P



#1072
mugwuffin1986

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Yeah, except that I sometimes use them for cannon fodder/human shields, is all.

 

Totally acceptable.

 

As long as the Inquisitor survives... they'll all pop right back up after a short battle nap.


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#1073
In Exile

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Not at all.

 

What if you play as a Spirit Healer mage, you'll want a party composition to support that role. What if you want to be a Sword & Board warrior tank, once again you'll need to build a party to support that role.

 

You have a party, this is not Skyrim, this is not the Witcher or some other solo hero game... this is Dragon Age.

 

Use the companions, the game is designed that way.

 

I don't think you followed anything that I said. I didn't say that you have to somehow play the PC as the main DPS character. Just that someone might like to do that, meaning that you'd control the PC first and foremost and the rest of the party would receive more limited attention (in comparison to the PC) using builds that are support and low maintenance. 

 

I don't know how you could possibly get "solo play" out of a post where I specifically talked about particular party builds. 



#1074
In Exile

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Eww, I hope not.  That would be goofy.

 

That would make a good question, btw.  Do "Inquisitor powers" take up a slot?  Do they even work the same way as "regular" abilities?

 

I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen with the 8 ability cap. Like those Warden's Keep powers: kind of nifty but overall not good enough to take a top 8 slot vs. e.g. mana clash or crushing prison. 



#1075
PsychoBlonde

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i cant talk about others but personally since i play on easy (or was it very easy?) i dont need to control the companions :P

 

Heck, I did this on hard.  It's not difficult if you're a giant cheesemonkey with a bunch of OP preorder and DLC swag.