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First Look at the PC UI for DAI


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#1101
seraphymon

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It's funny, nobody thinks the Witcher 3 will be inherently flawed due to its status as an action RPG. Nobody thinks ill of Kingdom Hearts for not utilizing an active time combat system. It doesn't seem to have made people speak less of Xenoblade, either.

 

Strange that it'd be such a death-knell for the Dragon Age series alone. Very strange.

Nobody does because there is a place for action RPG style of gameplay. DMC  GOW Kingdom hearts. Love em. but DA was never that. I personally liked Brent Knowles vision and dont like that DA is trying to shift one way and then another and another in terms combat at times.


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#1102
Gokorikon

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I don't know, this 8 ability thing just doesn't seem right to me. We have been hearing from all sides how this game has 200 different abilities and how next-generation of BioWare games is ALL about the freedom of choice for the player. Now we learned that there is a lot more passive abilities and such and so only god knows how many of them will actually be usable. In addition, limiting the number to 8 at a time for me means the exact opposite of stated "freedom of choice", because, if nothing else, this is a clear step-back from your previous, old-gen installments. Now, I understand that the combat system has propably undergone major changes, but still, limiting is limiting, and there is nothing you can tell us about it to convince us that this was necessary. If You wanted to add another layer of tactics, than why not add it to enironments and enemies? It seems to me that You did this just because You wanted to change "something" about it, or maybe You wanted PC players to suffer the same kinds of restrictions as console gamers, so they don't feel sad and ignored. If so, it is interesting that You didn't care about this in Origins and II.

It's the details that make great games the best, and You just removed one, seemingly unimportant detail that people, altough they didn't tell You, loved very much about this particular franchise. It was one of the icons of Dragon Age, and I remember Mike Laidlaw saying, that they feel responsible for the fans and that he doesn't want to betray things that make Dragon Age what it is. And guess what You did by this...

 

P.S. Still, I am positive that if this really feels like restriction when the game ships, we can expect a mod that heals this pretty soon following the release.


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#1103
Novos

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One really can't help but think about the irony in all these combat limitations introduced while choice is the game's major selling point...

 

Actually; limited number of abilities is not necessarily a bad thing given all the other elements designed complimenting that feature. But you know what ? It is not Dragon Age either...

 

I already tried to explain this before in another post, i would like to point it out here also :

 

I believe that combat is one of the strongest and major selling features of Dragon Age. Because it pretty much covers any playstyle and therefore caters to a very vide range of playerbase. In one end, you can set up your tactics so that you only focus on your character and go crazy with an appropriate third person view. In the other end yo can go all out hardcore and micro your characters to death basicly dictating the flow of the combat however you please. You can really approach and play each encounter different if you really wanted to.

 

With limitations like this you can only shorten this range and cater to a specisific set of playstyles and playerbase. I mean why would you want to do that while you already have a working system covering the whole range. It just needs more emphasis, polish and little touches here and there. Not this...

 

No matter what; i believe that these implementations are just a result of heavy console and multiplayer influence combined. Nowadays It is such sad and disheartening to see all the signs of stereotypes which the devs, publishers or in other words the sector sees in console and multiplayer playerbase.  Why would you think that every game needs some predefined form, shape, artstyle, animation, combat and whatever etc. in order to be successfull. Is gaming community really that shallow and short minded ? Hell i don't think so... Why should every game needs to go on route for being an interactive movie with artificial hurdles to introduce false sense of achievement ?

 

You know; i was never able to understand why Dragon Age was compared with titles like Witcher, Dark Souls etc. Because it did not make any sense to me; they were completely different games. With the route Bioware is going and the limitations introduced like this one; now i understand that i was wrong. They are becoming more and more comparable each day... So what makes Dragon Age unique and stand out from the infinte number of action games with choices now ? I believe the answer to this question is shortening with every new installement of the franchise.  

 

I hope i didn' t bore or offend anyone, i just wanted to express my thoughts, feelings and maybe some kind of feedback. I hope that the final product proves any critique wrong and we all have a blast tasting the experience.



#1104
robertthebard

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Well, after sifting through the trolls, the white knight trolls, and some actual information, I'm left with this thought:

All the complaints about customization were a lie, since limiting the customization of combat seems to be just fine. To wit:

"You didn't forget them, they're just not on your quick bar when you might need them" seems to be perfectly acceptable. I expect this means that every encounter in the game is going to be "you come over the hill and see (insert random enemy type here), what do you do?" type encounters. That's pretty stale, and will become even more so as we continue with our exploration, since there won't, really can't by design, be any surprises. After all, if you're set up for X, and Y happens, the forums are going to explode with "I could have gotten through this encounter, if only I'd had access to J, but since everything I was fighting was ok with A-H, and I can't drop one of those for J, I didn't have it on the bar" posts, likely from the people claiming "but it's not important that you can't improvise on the fly", one of the things that separates this genre from Call of Duty. I mean, the only improvisation there is weapon swaps.

This brings me to "It's more tactical!!!!11111eleven!!!11": Only if, by more tactical, you mean stale and boring encounter structures. See above.

I too have been around since BG. This doesn't make me a special snowflake, but it has taught me that the unexpected can be more fun than "This is area 11,567. It is populated by enemies that will only require (Insert random skills here), so nothing else need be worried about". I find it sad that my entire party will have less available skills in combat in DA I than I had available to my Bard/Assassin/AA in NWN. Where's the flexibility in that? It seems to me that I'm going to have to set the party up to be completely focused on whatever is in a particular area, meaning I may have to not only change my hotbars around, but also any tactics that I may have team members using. If what works here may not work over there, I can't see any way that that's not going to wind up being the case, depending on just how drastically the types of mobs, inherent resistances et al may change. Where, if I had full access to my skill trees, I may just have to swap out party members that are more "in tune" with what's going on than others. This seems to be trivial to some people posting here, but to me, it is of tantamount importance. There is nothing worse than failing a quest because the game artificially limits what I can do, depending on how my skills are laid out.

While this isn't the deal breaker some here have proclaimed it to be, and frankly, who are any of us to tell them what should or should not make them happy(I got a board warning for stating that thinking companions were average based entirely on appearance was shallow), it's not exactly good news to me. I do have to say that I like the layout, but that it's wasted on PC, since I do indeed have more than one "Modifier" key I can use to access more slots w/out changing the basic layout at all. All of this will, of course, be moot if it turns out that each class/spec only has a total of 8 active skills. But I guess that's one of the problems with changing how combat works with every release; culture shock is the best phrase I can come up with for it. It does, however, make it hard to become invested in a series, when each game might as well be a stand alone title, since they play so differently from each other.
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#1105
Giubba

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  • Blame everything on multiplayer
  • Mass Effect endings
  • Boobies

:D

 

 

God how i could have forgot boobies !



#1106
Ophir147

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I'm not mad. Just disappointed.

 

We've all seen this happen before with tactical cam. "Well, we didn't really think it was all that important so we left it out. That doesn't mean that the game sucks."

 

Then when they want to sell DA:I to us, they start hyping the crap out of the fact that tactical cam is back. It seems like every interview that they do mentions tactical cam at least four times, even when it isn't relevant, like they have some sort of quota to meet.

 

Now we are limited to 8 abilities, which isn't a big deal in the early game (as long as you don't plan on using a lot of items), but I guarantee that unlimited action bar slots will all of a sudden be a selling point to Dragon Age 4.

 

It's just exhausting.


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#1107
Guest_Shales my Homegirl_*

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Excuse me, how are these people who are mocking those who are justifiably disappointed not being warned/temp-banned? Why is it that only those who criticise BioWare get punished when the other side is being just as bad, if not worse? Despite what these people say it's clear that BioWare did make compromises for the sake of MP and consoles. That's a fact. Pretending like it isn't because you don't like it is not going to change it.

 

In retrospect were people likely overreacting on both sides? Yes. But, we still don't know if this 8 ability thing will be a deal-breaker or not for us that choose to play on PC. The excuse that "it's tactical" is absolutley nonsense--sure it's true, but I think people would've preferred making the game more difficult rather than gimping the game and making encounters more dull.


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#1108
Genshie

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God how i could have forgot boobies !

They are the core features man!  Don't you know they are supposedly the Elder One's weakness? Hush hush though...



#1109
robertthebard

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They are the core features man!  Don't you know they are supposedly the Elder One's weakness? Hush hush though...


Dammit, where was the "Spoiler Alert"???
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#1110
Ajna

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*there were some ranty words here*

Yes, I did that quoting, ranting and then deleting thing again.

I'm not in the "ermagherd only 8 abilities?!" camp, I'm ok with the UI, and yes, I'm a PC gamer, theres just way too much toxicity here for me to get involved in the conversation in any way than just this post.
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#1111
Chari

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Excuse me, how are these people who are mocking those who are justifiably disappointed not being warned/temp-banned? Why is it that only those who criticise BioWare get punished when the other side is being just as bad, if not worse? Despite what these people say it's clear that BioWare did make compromises for the sake of MP and consoles. That's a fact. Pretending like it isn't because you don't like it is not going to change it.

 

In retrospect were people likely overreacting on both sides? Yes. But, we still don't know if this 8 ability thing will be a deal-breaker or not for us that choose to play on PC. The excuse that "it's tactical" is absolutley nonsense--sure it's true, but I think people would've preferred making the game more difficult rather than gimping the game and making encounters more dull.

White-knight trolls have a pass at being jerks, didn't you know? After all, they defend Bioware so of course mods will ignore them



#1112
archav3n

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So let me guess:

 

  • 90% of pre-order cancelled
  • Bioware are a bunch of betrayer because they put only 8 active ability
  • DAO and DA2 (oh the ****** irony) were a lot better than DA:I
  • It's clearly something EA forced upon Bioware.
  • Herp
  • Derp

Did i left anything out?

 

Can you stop posting here? If you are not interested in PC UI i understand. I'm not even sure what you trying to achieve here.



#1113
metatheurgist

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You object to the "gamification" of something that has the word "game" in the description?  How does that even work?


There's good gamification that supports fun, interesting detail, complexity and verisimilitude to lore and the game universe and then there's "Hey, let's make this a rule 'cos we can!", which seems to be increasing in RPGs.

#1114
Gokorikon

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I just don't get why they have to force changes where they are not needed at all. Ability panel was one of the things that basically nobody could criticize, it was just perfect as it was.  But no, they just had to go ahead and change one of the few things still intact about the franchise.

 

It's like they are doing this on purpose, because the must have predicted what kind of storm this would cause. And yet, they still did it.

 

That's propably why they have been hiding it for so long.



#1115
They call me a SpaceCowboy

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It's funny, nobody thinks the Witcher 3 will be inherently flawed due to its status as an action RPG. Nobody thinks ill of Kingdom Hearts for not utilizing an active time combat system. It doesn't seem to have made people speak less of Xenoblade, either.

 

Strange that it'd be such a death-knell for the Dragon Age series alone. Very strange.

 

Speak for yourself. :P

 

I don't like 'action rpg' requirements to dodge out of the way of attacks and stuff like that. I got Kingdons of Amalur, and that is the worst thing about their combat to me.



#1116
DEJOBLUE

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There's a surprising amount of people who only play as their character and just leave the companions on auto-pilot.

 

I don't understand it, but...

 

This. THIS is what Dragon Age IS.

 

I would LOVE to have an MMO, like WoW, where instead of all of the jerks and kids I could just have my own entourage that follows me with tactics that I set. Heck I could get 5 friends and we could do 20 man raids, us and our companions.

 

But people just don't "get it".

 

And I can see both sides. I LOVE to play the dog or blight hound and just let the party of NPCs, incuding my character, do everything according to my tactics. That is what is fun for me, ridiculously difficult tactics on Nightmare in crappy gear.

:)

Cheers!



#1117
SofaJockey

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In the hope of constructive debate:

 

The concerns about 8 slots appears mostly focused on the mage class.

I'm not seeing much concern expressed for Warrior/Rogue.

 

From a tactical perspective you are going to want to have equipped, things to deal with the weaknesses that foes have

and things that can prime, or conclude cross-class combos.

 

So I'll try to bring at least one spell of each destruction type, fire, cold, but I don't need to equip all of them.

Also, some abilities at higher level will be essential better versions of something you had at lower level.

 

cold.png

 

It's not going to change, so we need to assess how to work successfully within this framework.

This is something the console players will be doing anyway.



#1118
Fredvdp

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I guarantee that unlimited action bar slots will all of a sudden be a selling point to Dragon Age 4.

Oh absolutely. And a few months before release they announce that we can't take control of our companions anymore.

 

"With so many abilities at your disposal, it would be too much work to swith between characters. You'll have to set up their tactics, plan all your attacks in advance."



#1119
Reznore57

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Oh I'm also worried about rogues...I wonder where I'm going to put all my artificer "gadget".



#1120
Cassandra Saturn

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I don't know, this 8 ability thing just doesn't seem right to me. We have been hearing from all sides how this game has 200 different abilities and how next-generation of BioWare games is ALL about the freedom of choice for the player. Now we learned that there is a lot more passive abilities and such and so only god knows how many of them will actually be usable. In addition, limiting the number to 8 at a time for me means the exact opposite of stated "freedom of choice", because, if nothing else, this is a clear step-back from your previous, old-gen installments. Now, I understand that the combat system has propably undergone major changes, but still, limiting is limiting, and there is nothing you can tell us about it to convince us that this was necessary. If You wanted to add another layer of tactics, than why not add it to enironments and enemies? It seems to me that You did this just because You wanted to change "something" about it, or maybe You wanted PC players to suffer the same kinds of restrictions as console gamers, so they don't feel sad and ignored. If so, it is interesting that You didn't care about this in Origins and II.
It's the details that make great games the best, and You just removed one, seemingly unimportant detail that people, altough they didn't tell You, loved very much about this particular franchise. It was one of the icons of Dragon Age, and I remember Mike Laidlaw saying, that they feel responsible for the fans and that he doesn't want to betray things that make Dragon Age what it is. And guess what You did by this...
 
P.S. Still, I am positive that if this really feels like restriction when the game ships, we can expect a mod that heals this pretty soon following the release.

 
 

One really can't help but think about the irony in all these combat limitations introduced while choice is the game's major selling point...
 
Actually; limited number of abilities is not necessarily a bad thing given all the other elements designed complimenting that feature. But you know what ? It is not Dragon Age either...
 
I already tried to explain this before in another post, i would like to point it out here also :
 
I believe that combat is one of the strongest and major selling features of Dragon Age. Because it pretty much covers any playstyle and therefore caters to a very vide range of playerbase. In one end, you can set up your tactics so that you only focus on your character and go crazy with an appropriate third person view. In the other end yo can go all out hardcore and micro your characters to death basicly dictating the flow of the combat however you please. You can really approach and play each encounter different if you really wanted to.
 
With limitations like this you can only shorten this range and cater to a specisific set of playstyles and playerbase. I mean why would you want to do that while you already have a working system covering the whole range. It just needs more emphasis, polish and little touches here and there. Not this...
 
No matter what; i believe that these implementations are just a result of heavy console and multiplayer influence combined. Nowadays It is such sad and disheartening to see all the signs of stereotypes which the devs, publishers or in other words the sector sees in console and multiplayer playerbase.  Why would you think that every game needs some predefined form, shape, artstyle, animation, combat and whatever etc. in order to be successfull. Is gaming community really that shallow and short minded ? Hell i don't think so... Why should every game needs to go on route for being an interactive movie with artificial hurdles to introduce false sense of achievement ?
 
You know; i was never able to understand why Dragon Age was compared with titles like Witcher, Dark Souls etc. Because it did not make any sense to me; they were completely different games. With the route Bioware is going and the limitations introduced like this one; now i understand that i was wrong. They are becoming more and more comparable each day... So what makes Dragon Age unique and stand out from the infinte number of action games with choices now ? I believe the answer to this question is shortening with every new installement of the franchise.  
 
I hope i didn' t bore or offend anyone, i just wanted to express my thoughts, feelings and maybe some kind of feedback. I hope that the final product proves any critique wrong and we all have a blast tasting the experience.

 
 

White-knight trolls have a pass at being jerks, didn't you know? After all, they defend Bioware so of course mods will ignore them

 
 

In the hope of constructive debate:
 
The concerns about 8 slots appears mostly focused on the mage class.
I'm not seeing much concern expressed for Warrior/Rogue.
 
From a tactical perspective you are going to want to have equipped, things to deal with the weaknesses that foes have
and things that can prime, or conclude cross-class combos.
 
So I'll try to bring at least one spell of each destruction type, fire, cold, but I don't need to equip all of them.
Also, some abilities at higher level will be essential better versions of something you had at lower level.
 
cold.png
 
It's not going to change, so we need to assess how to work successfully within this framework.
This is something the console players will be doing anyway.


addressed in my previous post, this system is actually based on a older game's system. it's an updated version of old RPG Mechanics. http://forum.bioware...8#entry17220758

#1121
BioWareMod02

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I'm going to lock this thread, It's gone a bit off topic since it's start. Feel free to make a new one! 


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