322 réponses à ce sujet

[Alodar]

BioWare confirmed there was a tactics system but will the tactics fail if the abilities are not amongst the Console Port Chosen 8 for PC?

[CronoDragoon]

I'd assume so. Mike said "8 per character" not "8 per character being controlled."

[Brogan]

I've not looked at the abilities yet nor have I read how they will be implemented but I'd guess that passive abil's stay on.

[andar91]

I assume so. Why would they not account for that?

 

And the "console port" bit makes no sense. Consoles had access to all abilities for Origins and DA2; they wouldn't have changed it in DAI unless they wanted to make a gameplay design decision for the game itself regardless of platform.

[Alodar]

I'd assume so. Mike said "8 per character" not "8 per character being controlled."

So if I set it so a NPC mage casts fireball at the biggest enemy and fireball isn't part of that character's magic 8 then the mage would do nothing?

[CronoDragoon]

So if I set it so a NPC mage casts fireball at the biggest enemy and fireball isn't part of that character's magic 8 then the mage would do nothing?

 

Presumably he would move on to the next tactics line until he saw a valid command, and then executed that command.

 

So let's say you forgot to equip Mana Clash before engaging mages, and the next line is Sleep > Clustered enemies. It'll skip Mana Clash > Enemy mage and execute that.

[Alodar]

I assume so. Why would they not account for that?

 

And the "console port" bit makes no sense. Consoles had access to all abilities for Origins and DA2; they wouldn't have changed it in DAI unless they wanted to make a gameplay design decision for the game itself regardless of platform.

There is absolutely no reason for this limitation on PC.

There is absolutely no in-game explanation why a character would restrict themselves to 8 abilities for a combat.

 

The challenge business is BS.

They wanted an identical playing experience on console and PC -- that is the only reason for this limitation.

[CronoDragoon]

The challenge business is BS.

They wanted an identical playing experience on console and PC -- that is the only reason for this limitation.

 

You didn't need a reason for ability cooldowns, did you?

 

And the experience was the same on consoles and PC before as well. You could select all your abilities in console Origins and DA2.

[Alodar]

Presumably he would move on to the next tactics line until he saw a valid command, and then executed that command.

 

So let's say you forgot to equip Mana Clash before engaging mages, and the next line is Sleep > Clustered enemies. It'll skip Mana Clash > Enemy mage and execute that.

 

Bad design is bad.

If there is no valid command they would just ignore the tactics that you set up?

 

I cannot stress enough that this IMHO is a terrible choice.

[Brogan]

I don't think it's as bad as that Alodar.

I think the fundamental design of this new combat system is the reason. Not so much a lack of pc tuning. Let's wait and see.

[andar91]

There is absolutely no reason for this limitation on PC.

There is absolutely no in-game explanation why a character would restrict themselves to 8 abilities for a combat.

 

The challenge business is BS.

They wanted an identical playing experience on console and PC -- that is the only reason for this limitation.

 

In-game explanation for this? You're right, it's a game mechanic. But yes, there is no explanation. True for lots of things, but your point stands.

 

Them making the design decision did not, I am sure, happen without debate and thought. You don't have to like it, but you claiming to somehow know their reasoning without presenting any actual evidence for it does not make it true. As I said before, past games on console allowed access to all abilities through the radial menu. They could have done the same if they wanted on both platforms (I'm reasonably sure), but they chose not to.

[Alodar]

You didn't need a reason for ability cooldowns, did you?

 

And the experience was the same on consoles and PC before as well. You could select all your abilities in console Origins and DA2.

 

I could justify cool downs in game.

You needed a breather or you only had the stamina to pull that move off so often.

 

I cannot come up with any reason why my character, fighting for their lives, would not use an ability they know to save their lives just because it isn't on my quick bar.

[Alodar]

I don't think it's as bad as that Alodar.

I think the fundamental design of this new combat system is the reason. Not so much a lack of pc tuning. Let's wait and see.

 

It is the antithesis of my play style. I love obscure abilities that I can use in any combat just when they're useful.

 

I'm going to step away from the keyboard.

I don't like this decision and there is no benefit from me harping on about it.

[Brogan]

It is the antithesis of my play style. I love obscure abilities that I can use in any combat just when they're useful.
 
I'm going to step away from the keyboard.
I don't like this decision and there is no benefit from me harping on about it.

Understood. And I have the same nagging thoughts.

However, at this point I'm going to trust that my play style, which is identical to yours, will still be possible based on the idea of resource conservation and how they are integrating things along that path.

[Rawgrim]

In other words Tactics is utterly useless in this game, since it will only use the 8 mapped abilities anyway.

[EnduinRaylene]

That's a good question. Could go either way, but I'm guessing it will have to be a part of their active abilities list. Which isn't a big deal because if DAI tactics is like DAO and DA2 you can just create custom tactics for various loadouts. Even then just like DAO and DA2 if you use the preset tactics profiles it should conform to your loadout. So while you may not be able use that fireball spell because it's not equipped that tactics slot it was linked to before shouldn't be empty now but rearranged to conform to your current active abilities. 

[Rawgrim]

That's a good question. Could go either way, but I'm guessing it will have to be a part of their active abilities list. Which isn't a big deal because if DAI tactics is like DAO and DA2 you can just create custom tactics for various loadouts. Even then just like DAO and DA2 if you use the preset tactics profiles it should conform to your loadout. So while you may not be able use that fireball spell because it's not equipped that tactics slot it was linked to before shouldn't be empty now but rearranged to conform to your current active abilities. 

 

That severely limits the tactics aspect of the game, though. Unless you pick alot of passive abilities, and ones that enhances other abilities, there really isn't any point in having more than 8.

[CronoDragoon]

I could justify cool downs in game.

You needed a breather or you only had the stamina to pull that move off so often.

 

That justification only works for games with global cooldowns, not ones where you can use a different spell immediately after the first.

[Gamemako]

There is absolutely no reason for this limitation on PC... The challenge business is BS. [...] They wanted an identical playing experience on console and PC -- that is the only reason for this limitation.

There's no technical reason for this limitation on console, either. There's nothing keeping you from letting players put Static Cage and Dispel on a radial menu, yet they did so anyway.

[Rawgrim]

That justification only works for games with global cooldowns, not ones where you can use a different spell immediately after the first.

 

A very good point, actually.

[EnduinRaylene]

That severely limits the tactics aspect of the game, though. Unless you pick alot of passive abilities, and ones that enhances other abilities, there really isn't any point in having more than 8.

Maybe, maybe not. If you look at the breakdown of the abilities though and the likely level cap most players will probably only have 10 or so possible active abilities anyway since half of the trees all seem to be 50/50 active vs passive. So if you focus on two trees plus a specialization you'll basically have 10 or so active and 10 or so passive abilities by end game. 

 

Even if you have more active, I don't see the switching of loadouts as a huge burden, most people go with preset tactics profiles anyway, but again if the game is like DAO and DA2 you'll have multiple custom tactics profiles as well so it's no big deal switching those. When switching ability loadouts it shouldn't be rocket science which you need to take, you'll likely be intimately familiar with all of them since you won't have that many to begin with, even by end game.

[Rawgrim]

Maybe, maybe not. If you look at the breakdown of the abilities though and the likely level cap most players will probably only have 10 or so possible active abilities anyway since half of the trees all seem to be 50/50 active vs passive. So if you focus on two trees plus a specialization you'll basically have 10 or so active and 10 or so passive abilities by end game. 

 

Even if you have more active, I don't see the switching of loadouts as a huge burden, most people go with preset tactics profiles anyway, but again if the game is like DAO and DA2 you'll have multiple custom tactics profiles as well so it's no big deal switching those. When switching ability loadouts it shouldn't be rocket science which you need to take, you'll likely be intimately familiar with all of them since you won't have that many to begin with, even by end game.

 

Its going to be a hassle to change the loadout for the PC and every companion before every battle throughout the game, not to mention during replaying the game later.

[EnduinRaylene]

Its going to be a hassle to change the loadout for the PC and every companion before every battle throughout the game, not to mention during replaying the game later.

They've already said you won't have to switch between every battle. And again if I'm right about the breakdown of active and passive abilities, most players will have few options to switch in or out in the first place. At level 16 you might still only have 7 active abilities. So we're really talking about a limitation and excess of abilities towards the end game. Where again you'll likely have a familiarity with the abilities and enemies enough to know when, if at all, you need to swap our an ability or two for certain encounters.

[Rawgrim]

They've already said you won't have to switch between every battle. And again if I'm right about the breakdown of active and passive abilities, most players will have few options to switch in or out in the first place. At level 16 you might still only have 7 active abilities. So we're really talking about a limitation and excess of abilities towards the end game. Where again you'll likely have a familiarity with the abilities and enemies enough to know when, if at all, you need to swap our an ability or two for certain encounters.

 

Lets say we only have 7 active abilities by level 16. That is pretty damn limited by itself. In comparisson, in BG2, you have about 50 spells at least by that level + special abilites.

[Joseph Warrick]

Intense use of tactics could effectively bypass the 8 abilities limit. For example if you set a tactic to automatically use an armor debuff on elites and bosses, then there is no point having that ability mapped = you effectively have 9 abilities.