550 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

Exactly. I will never deny that there is anime and JRPG series that are nothing but fanservice for men or women, but there is a lot more types than that that are a lot better at things like representation.

I forgot to mention JRPGs. Like what i mentioned above, you got subversions in games like Atlus' Persona series (real popular).

[Seraphim24]

I don't know what else to add, it seems like more and more people are getting what I'm saying, at least from my point of view. People are still squabbling about the language but there are even more points about these types of characters.

 

It's funny Kallen is here, because while I have watched a decent amount of anime (as compared to Visual Novels), the only one I would confidently place alongside video games is Code Geass. Kallen is pretty tough but not necessarily overly so, it's pretty brash for an anime.

 

Still though, there are examples everywhere, like the person who mentioned the Hobbits, they weren't necessarily these overly boisterious and warrior-like people even though it was a pretty harsh world, it gives some levity to the proceedings.

 

When I used to watch anime and play JRPGs I could never find any female characters to cosplay who were as cool or interesting as their male counterparts.

 

I'm slightly skeptical that you couldn't find anything interesting in JRPGs if you used to play them, I would guess something would of drawn you to the games. Thinking off the top of my head there are a few in Valkyrie Profile, Freya, Hrist, possibly Lenneth. FFIX has Beatrix, (another) Freya. If I throw out like Tifa or Aerith, you are probably going to put those in the excessively demure camp, and yet they would often demonstrate this different kind of strength. 

 

Aerith fought plenty along the way, she wasn't screaming out EW BLOOD whenever you got into a battle, but she wasn't attracted to violence, this philosophical desire for peace does not =/= weak and incompetent. Neither does the mere fact of showing interest in men, for that matter.

[The Hierophant]

Good shout outs Kefka.

Valkyrie Profile, and FFIX are classics. Aya Brea from Parasite Eve deserves a mention too.

[Ryzaki]

 This makes me think of Aerie from Baldur's gate.  caring, needy, naive.

 

Was going to put in my two cents, but everyone has already said it.   

 

Aerie...

 

Aerie...

 

Aerie...

 

*screams in horror and flees*

 

NEVER AGAIN YOU HERE ME NEVER AGAIN DO I WANT SUCH A WHINY FEMALE ON MY TEAM. *continues to run*

[Seraphim24]

Indeed, I thought Aerie was a sort of boring character, but interestingly enough, that was Bioware that created that particular character.

[HTTP 404]

Indeed, I thought Aerie was a sort of boring character, but interestingly enough, that was Bioware that created that particular character.

 

I felt that Aerie was too underpowered to have in my party.  I did do one playthrough and she got powerful at the end but her naivety was too much for me to bear. 

[DaySeeker]

I don't know what else to add, it seems like more and more people are getting what I'm saying, at least from my point of view. People are still squabbling about the language but there are even more points about these types of characters.

 

It's funny Kallen is here, because while I have watched a decent amount of anime (as compared to Visual Novels), the only one I would confidently place alongside video games is Code Geass. Kallen is pretty tough but not necessarily overly so, it's pretty brash for an anime.

 

Still though, there are examples everywhere, like the person who mentioned the Hobbits, they weren't necessarily these overly boisterious and warrior-like people even though it was a pretty harsh world, it gives some levity to the proceedings.

 

 

I'm slightly skeptical that you couldn't find anything interesting in JRPGs if you used to play them, I would guess something would of drawn you to the games. Thinking off the top of my head there are a few in Valkyrie Profile, Freya, Hrist, possibly Lenneth. FFIX has Beatrix, (another) Freya. If I throw out like Tifa or Aerith, you are probably going to put those in the excessively demure camp, and yet they would often demonstrate this different kind of strength. 

 

Aerith fought plenty along the way, she wasn't screaming out EW BLOOD whenever you got into a battle, but she wasn't attracted to violence, this philosophical desire for peace does not =/= weak and incompetent. Neither does the mere fact of showing interest in men, for that matter.

 The main person that doesn't understand what you're saying is you.  You said previously you weren't looking for stereotypes, then later you say you are.  You judge characters you haven't met yet on the tiny snippets we've seen and decide somehow they aren't female enough, but then constantly qualify and requalify what you think female is.  You are not actually making a point, all you are saying is that you don't think they made the exact females you want.  You insult women, you insult the writers, the you say you're not doing that because somehow you are the expert and no one has understood the amazing point you're trying to make.  The point you are making is you want the women to be more girly and stereotypical.  They should have no hardness to them because somehow that disqualifies them from womanhood.  You don't accept evidence of gender treatment from previous games as evidence because you've played those games a bunch of times already (how that invalidates the argument I don't know).  You continue to make an offensive, demeaning argument and then say that is not what you're doing.  If people have stopped responding it is because it's pointless; you don't listen to even your own words.  

[coldflame]

I felt that Aerie was too underpowered to have in my party.  I did do one playthrough and she got powerful at the end but her naivety was too much for me to bear. 

At later stage Aerie is one of the most powerful companions you can get in BG2 due to the fact that she is a cleric/mage.

[Medhia_Nox]

@coldflame:  Not gonna derail this thread with a LOTR discussion - but if you think that's the "point" of the story - you might not have read what happens near the end of the book. 

 

That simple, wholesome people are more resistant to the temptations of power is not the "point" of the LOTR - as Samwise (the MOST simple and wholesome) proves.

 

The Hobbits themselves are nearly useless "until they change".  They are victims in need of protection by a Fellowship - until they are forced to change. Merry and Pipin change as people - to become more fearsome.  Merry, arguably, always had a fierce heart even if it was tempered by the Shire.  Sam changes in defense of Frodo.  Frodo changes the most - his spirit no longer capable of living in this world it is so irreparably altered.

 

When they arrive in the Shire - they are no longer "simple, wholesome folk" - so much so that they lead a campaign to liberate the Shire.  They are now "fearsome" and forever different (as maybe can be said for the Shire in total - as the darkness of Sauron destroys all innocence).

 

As for "girly girls who love violence".  That is not indicative of real life and has no place in quality storytelling.  Fighting battles in dresses and school uniforms is simply a fantasy - and while this is "fantasy" - if Bioware desires to write a story about indentifiable people - they would best avoid any concept of "tea party battle barbie".

 

Queen Elizabeth was a fierce woman who balked at the "girly" aspects forced upon her. As were Catherine the Great, Empress Theodora, Boudica, Joan of Arc, Queen Victoria.

 

Cleopatra was girly - and she lost her empire and killed herself for her lover with an asp - so if we want some great melodrama going on - we've got her as an example.

 

And it's no different with men.  Gentle men (that does not mean effeminate) who have no propensity toward violence and no love of power over others have no place in conflicts and only suffer immensely if forced into such scenarios. 

 

The Inquisition is not a war against a rational force... it is a conflict against the annihilation of all peoples in Thedas everywhere.  Any person too gentle - would either die or change.  Battle Barbies are the most ridiculous of male fantasies and should stay in fantasies and not pollute any effort at good storytelling.

[coldflame]

 The main person that doesn't understand what you're saying is you.  You said previously you weren't looking for stereotypes, then later you say you are.  You judge characters you haven't met yet on the tiny snippets we've seen and decide somehow they aren't female enough, but then constantly qualify and requalify what you think female is.  You are not actually making a point, all you are saying is that you don't think they made the exact females you want.  You insult women, you insult the writers, the you say you're not doing that because somehow you are the expert and no one has understood the amazing point you're trying to make.  The point you are making is you want the women to be more girly and stereotypical.  They should have no hardness to them because somehow that disqualifies them from womanhood.  You don't accept evidence of gender treatment from previous games as evidence because you've played those games a bunch of times already (how that invalidates the argument I don't know).  You continue to make an offensive, demeaning argument and then say that is not what you're doing.  If people have stopped responding it is because it's pointless; you don't listen to even your own words.  

 

I will be honest. I am a bit surprised to see this thread's still going. The people that critisied and judged OP for his opinion have failed to see that they were doing the exact same thing that they used to critise and judge OP. When you say OP has insulted women and the writers, have you stopped and think that what you've typed might be seen as insults to the OP? If you people keep painting him as this stereotypical male who is a misogynist, what makes you different from him (besides this will just keep fueling him to keep going as he might see this as a 'the world against him scenario'). From what I have seen here, it is just hypocrisy from both camps.

 

It takes two sides to have an argument.

[coldflame]

@coldflame:  Not gonna derail this thread with a LOTR discussion - but if you think that's the "point" of the story - you might not have read what happens near the end of the book. 

 

That simple, wholesome people are more resistant to the temptations of power is not the "point" of the LOTR - as Samwise (the MOST simple and wholesome) proves.

 

The Hobbits themselves are nearly useless "until they change".  They are victims in need of protection by a Fellowship - until they are forced to change. Merry and Pipin change as people - to become more fearsome.  Merry, arguably, always had a fierce heart even if it was tempered by the Shire.  Sam changes in defense of Frodo.  Frodo changes the most - his spirit no longer capable of living in this world it is so irreparably altered.

 

When they arrive in the Shire - they are no longer "simple, wholesome folk" - so much so that they lead a campaign to liberate the Shire.  They are now "fearsome" and forever different (as maybe can be said for the Shire in total - as the darkness of Sauron destroys all innocence).

 

As for "girly girls who love violence".  That is not indicative of real life and has no place in quality storytelling.  Fighting battles in dresses and school uniforms is simply a fantasy - and while this is "fantasy" - if Bioware desires to write a story about indentifiable people - they would best avoid any concept of "tea party battle barbie".

 

Queen Elizabeth was a fierce woman who balked at the "girly" aspects forced upon her. As were Catherine the Great, Empress Theodora, Boudica, Joan of Arc, Queen Victoria.

 

Cleopatra was girly - and she lost her empire and killed herself for her lover with an asp - so if we want some great melodrama going on - we've got her as an example.

 

And it's no different with men.  Gentle men (that does not mean effeminate) who have no propensity toward violence and no love of power over others have no place in conflicts and only suffer immensely if forced into such scenarios. 

 

The Inquisition is not a war against a rational force... it is a conflict against the annihilation of all peoples in Thedas everywhere.  Any person too gentle - would either die or change.  Battle Barbies are the most ridiculous of male fantasies and should stay in fantasies and not pollute any effort at good storytelling.

Guess you didn't read the second part of my post but it is ok.

[KaiserShep]

Be careful what you ask for.

 

Confirmed DLC companion: Comtess De'Launcet

 

Inquistor dah-ling!

[HTTP 404]

At later stage Aerie is one of the most powerful companions you can get in BG2 due to the fact that she is a cleric/mage.

 

exactly what I was implying.  She is pretty awesome at the end.

[Nefla]

Be careful what you ask for.

 

Confirmed DLC companion: Comtess De'Launcet

 

Inquistor dah-ling!

She even faints at the thought of the Hanged Man as a proper woman should! It is so filthy!

[dekarserverbot]

Aerie...

 

Aerie...

 

Aerie...

 

*screams in horror and flees*

 

NEVER AGAIN YOU HERE ME NEVER AGAIN DO I WANT SUCH A WHINY FEMALE ON MY TEAM. *continues to run*

I know how you feel, i also hate tsundere characters with murder rage

[Uccio]

Aerie...

 

Aerie...

 

Aerie...

 

*screams in horror and flees*

 

NEVER AGAIN YOU HERE ME NEVER AGAIN DO I WANT SUCH A WHINY FEMALE ON MY TEAM. *continues to run*

 

Hey! Aerie was adorable. She was my main romance in BG2.

[Ryzaki]

I know how you feel, i also hate tsundere characters with murder rage

XD I don't mind male Tsundere but yeah I'm kind of sick of the female version

 

Hey! Aerie was adorable. She was my main romance in BG2.

 

*shudders*

 

Thank you for reminding me of inventory  baby. Ugh.

[The Hierophant]

lol @ tsunderes in DA. Though i'm guessing Carver could count as one.

[Null0]

Hey! Aerie was adorable. She was my main romance in BG2.

Mine too! Even though I understand those who complain about Aerie.

I also agree with the main topic : I would like to have more female characters in the game . BTW, as for the whole discussion regarding stereotypes etc: relax.... I really don't think that the author of this thread wanted to offend anybody...

One mor thing: IMO we focus a bit too much about all these possibilities of romance in DAI. I prefer the unbeaten BG2 in this case as well: romances as a great addition to the whole story- but still just addition.

[KennethAFTopp]

Hello, so I've attempted to offer feedback on this and potential future Bioware games. I must say, there was a lot of... um... unhappiness but also legitimate claims as to confusion about those points about the boring characters or female inquisitor, so rather than revisit those points I would just try and state clearly the issue.

 

I don't enjoy or have any interest in games like Watch Dogs, Call of Duty, etc, because they are always super macho men doing macho things blah blah blah. However, this applies to Bioware also, even though I'm told, Bioware is going oh diversity, yes look at our... 3 female characters?

 

First of all, that's a 2 to 1 ratio, there are 2 men every women as far as companions go, which is a weak ratio. Additionally, those remaining 3 women are basically men. Cassandra the sergeant, Vivienne the executive, and Sera the tomboy.

 

Heck, the most recent trailer, Enemy of Thedas, showed a male inquisitor for awhile, then Dorian, then Cole, then Cullen, some zombie/enemies, etc, it's pure men1. Hilariously (in a bad way), the first time a female shows up (Sera) is when she's being hurled against a wall at high speed2 (Bioware is... progressive?) Then we go back to men doing manly things, and then some female mage in total isolation taking down a single zombie, which was utterly inspiring3. Then more dragons/men (Solas) doing manly things4, then hilariously again the next female to show up (Morrigan) is shown for a half second and then blasted off the platform (what's with women being thrown all over the place??). It closes with a bunch of aliens, cool, I'm feeling the female energy all over the place.

 

So please, if you would like certain people's money put at least one (lets not get too crazy) actual, proper, feminine, companion in future games, thanks.

1. I don't really see a problem with this, after all the E3 coverage was a female inquisitor and wasn't she featured prominently in a previous trailer?

 

2. Sooo women aren't allowed to be hurled somewhere now?

 

3. Is that sarcasm?

 

4. sometimes I am really confused as when posts or criticism like this shows up, So male characters aren't allowed to do anything, and not is allowed to happen to female characters?

[DaySeeker]

I will be honest. I am a bit surprised to see this thread's still going. The people that critisied and judged OP for his opinion have failed to see that they were doing the exact same thing that they used to critise and judge OP. When you say OP has insulted women and the writers, have you stopped and think that what you've typed might be seen as insults to the OP? If you people keep painting him as this stereotypical male who is a misogynist, what makes you different from him (besides this will just keep fueling him to keep going as he might see this as a 'the world against him scenario'). From what I have seen here, it is just hypocrisy from both camps.

 

It takes two sides to have an argument.

I assumed the OP was a woman.  When someone takes a series of demeaning views is calling them out on it insulting?  I think you need to examine your use of the word hypocrisy.  

[Seraphim24]

Right... I don't even know how this most recent conversation started or where it's going. Pretty much everything I want to see is in here somewhere or another, now it's just a matter of whether Bioware can produce this at one time or another.

 

Besides, I don't want to repeat myself about the stereotype issue or the gender issue or the this or that. Azdammo above said it was well as anything, it's just kind of the feeling of underserving feminine female characters, who nonetheless retain enough strength and ambition to fight, etc.

[Muspade]

It's just kind of the feeling of underserving feminine female characters, who nonetheless retain enough strength and ambition to fight, etc.

 
"Underserving"?

There was quite a few feminine characters in DA2 and atleast one in DA:O. There not being any this game who are "feminine with the strength to fight" is simply too bad.

Variety. Hurrah, even though Vivienne is in the game as the "feminine" one.

[Null0]

 
"Underserving"?

There was quite a few feminine characters in DA2 and atleast one in DA:O. There not being any this game who are "feminine with the strength to fight" is simply too bad.

Variety. Hurrah, even though Vivienne is in the game as the "feminine" one.

 

 

Well, putting all the additional discussion about stereotypes etc aside - it's just what some of us think. Of course the idea  (itself) of particular person being feminine or not is totally subjective. However, I don't  think it's a coincidence that at least fraction of us take it the way i.e. I and Kefka112 do.

 

BUT: the most important thing here: It's not going to spoil my gameplay or bug me in any sort of way. It's just the opinion, not some huge objection (at least in my case).

 

BTW variety is a great thing indeed, hah.

 

[dekarserverbot]

XD I don't mind male Tsundere but yeah I'm kind of sick of the female version

 

 

I like male tsunderes, at least they make good tanks, but female version is just a pain in the ass that is more useless than Hawke itself