550 réponses à ce sujet

[frylock23]

If we get more female characters, we get less options for female LIs. If we get less female characters, we get more options for female LIs. So take your pick - do you want more female characters or more female LIs? You can't have both unless you have the super lesbian squad which would mostly make only one demographic really happy (two if you count the male gamers who like playing female characters and like that action).

[aTigerslunch]

Rosey, that was well said, I wish I could like your post, but ran out of likes.

 

 

LIKE!!  

 

 

I ended up blocking Kefka cause they aren't listening.

[OptionFour]

I will be honest. I am a bit surprised to see this thread's still going. The people that critisied and judged OP for his opinion have failed to see that they were doing the exact same thing that they used to critise and judge OP. When you say OP has insulted women and the writers, have you stopped and think that what you've typed might be seen as insults to the OP? If you people keep painting him as this stereotypical male who is a misogynist, what makes you different from him (besides this will just keep fueling him to keep going as he might see this as a 'the world against him scenario'). From what I have seen here, it is just hypocrisy from both camps.

 

It takes two sides to have an argument.

 

To be fair now, a lot of people - like myself - haven't said he's a misogynist, or a 'stereotypical male'. I just said he was wrong.

 

I don't think he's insulting anyone (aside from the implications that women without his perfect set of ideal traits are, in fact, just men . . . which, now I think of it is pretty insulting actually) so much as he's just trying to shoehorn some really bad, out of place writing into the game. Now if that's what he likes, that's fine I suppose. But there are products out there like that. Hopefully this will never turn into one of them.

 

The reason he's getting the responses he's getting - or one of the reasons - is because he likes to do things like respond to just one tiny part of a huge post; three words, say, out of four paragraphs. Instead of directly refuting the central point of another person's argument with some evidence, he'll batter and play with a side argument and then act as though he's sunk the entire counter-point by doing so.

 

Its a touch like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are at chess, he's just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board, and act like he won.

[aTigerslunch]

Yep, why I blocked OP. 

[Seraphim24]

And yet you are still here, in this thread, amusing. I guess I started to make too much sense. 

 

If we get more female characters, we get less options for female LIs. If we get less female characters, we get more options for female LIs. So take your pick - do you want more female characters or more female LIs? You can't have both unless you have the super lesbian squad which would mostly make only one demographic really happy (two if you count the male gamers who like playing female characters and like that action).

 

I want more "stereotypical femininity," nice and fun people. It doesn't matter if someone is a male or female it doesn't prevent them possessing the capacity to be a mean jackstick that no one wants to be around. It doesn't prevent them from being nice either, which is why it's irrelevant. I'm equal opportunity in this respect. Just like not every nice female character is also a weakling and tepid, Bioware does a far better job of creating those characters than many Japanese games could dream of IMO. (Aerie, etc)

 

So OptionFour, or whoever else, care to debunk the characters? Of course, you can continue spewing venom of course also, that's nice also.

[OptionFour]

And yet you are still here, in my thread, amusing. I guess I started to make too much sense. 

 

 

I want more femininity, nice and fun people. It doesn't matter if someone is a male or female lesbian, straight, bisexual, pansexual, furry, bisexual furry lesbian preferred, heterosexuality, ****** flexible, whatever, it doesn't prevent them possessing the capacity to be a mean jackstick that no one wants to be around. It doesn't prevent them from being nice either, which is why it's irrelevant. I'm equal opportunity in this respect.

 

So OptionFour, or whoever else, care to debunk the characters I've offered as superior to your beloved Bioware? Of course, you can continue spewing venom of course also, that's nice also.

 

I don't care to debunk them because I don't play JRPGs - if that's what you like then good on you. It stopped being fun for me when I was much younger, so I stopped playing 'em. Unlike some folks, I'll not go on at length about something I know nothing about.

Also, I don't love BioWare - I don't even really care for them much, in truth. They're all right.

For a fellow who seems to hate others making assumptions and putting words in his mouth, your tongue has a remarkable ability to waggle at both ends.

 

 

As I said, I just think you're wrong. And fun to watch maybe, a touch like a train wreck. But mostly that first thing.

[Seraphim24]

I don't care to debunk them because while they might indeed be awesome characters I simply have not experienced them

 

Fixed that for you.

 

 

 

As I said, I just think you're wrong. And fun to watch maybe, a touch like a train wreck. But mostly that first thing.

 

How about this then, care to suggest why you yourself think Bioware is "all right?" Perhaps that would be a reason somewhat related to mine, and we can find common ground.

[aTigerslunch]

I liked your comment cause the last part.    Fun to watch, a touch like a train wreck. 

[Seraphim24]

Oh now your insulting me with no real reasons or justifications from behind the ignore screen, how nice. People are so friendly and awesome on this site.

[OptionFour]

Fixed that for you.

 

How about this then, care to suggest why you yourself think Bioware is "all right?" Perhaps that would be a reason somewhat related to mine, and we can find common ground.

 

Truly hilarious, mate. You tell others not to put words in your mouth, then you actually just quote me and change my words. You're right, I can't debunk it because I am not familiar with the characters you brought up. If you want to translate that to a fault on my part then that's phenomenal, and I do wish you the best in convincing others of my inadequacy through that method. I'd wager I could name some characters you don't know, too. So enjoy that. Cheers.

 

I'm really just here for the show, though. When it comes to the issue at hand we have no common ground. In other things? Perhaps. But on this one not so much.

 

I will say that there's nothing like an insult followed by an appeal to common ground, though. Particularly tasty, that.

[aTigerslunch]

I just opened up my post for your viewing pleasure Kefka.   I said I liked his post regarding in watching you argue at only a few words, so content on saying the same thing, ignoring what is told you, by ignoring what was said in whole, only pointing out a few words here and there for your debates.  You are just getting pleasure from argument for argument sake is all. Hard to change my mind on that, cause you keep proving it true Kefka.   Acknowledge what the ladies said instead of ignoring them to continue debating.

[Seraphim24]

 I offer examples, he doesn't show interest in discussing them. It's like, I'm playing games that I really like and characters that I think are cool, so those are naturally the ones I can bring up.

 

It's like, ok, you have a fixation that a nice character means ultra submissive and lame, and yet you also haven't played of any of these supposed cool games. So... I guess you only have yourself to blame for the lack of diversity?

 

I'm pretty sure I offered you lengthier explanations for lengthier counter-arguments, but I'm not really sure how else I'm supposed to go into this when people just are flipping out all the time. I'm pretty sure I posted like a 11 paragraph response about female characters in the female inquisitor thread, and your response was "Ok, good thing we're done here." 

 

At a certain point, if no one is responding to those in a substantive manner, I'm not motivated to provide detailed responses.

[Seraphim24]

I'd wager I could name some characters you don't know, too. So enjoy that. Cheers.

 

Feel free, maybe I'll find some new games to play, this doesn't have to be hate-centric you know.

[Ryzaki]

This thread is a re-enactment of Hatoful Boyfriend, semi-confirmed rumor.

 

OMG I forgot to get it. Thank you for reminding me.

[Seraphim24]

 Acknowledge what the ladies said instead of ignoring them to continue debating.

 

Gosh, I mean like the part about Vivienne being very feminine because she's obsessed with clothes? That's precisely the kind of sexism people have been accusing me of, that's not the only kind of woman you know, nor is at as everyone else has been saying necessarily gender specific, it can be male or female.

 

Remember, I made a gender-neutral post some time ago about just having nice characters and everyone not being a jerk all the time, and that basically flat-lined after awhile because somehow this was beyond's everyone's grasp. I turn the gender neutral discussion into a more flatly sexist (More female characters!) and people are all over it.

[aTigerslunch]

I haven't played those games, I cant comment on those characters, I have to research them before I can say anything. 

 

You describe a woman "feminine" as someone that wont pick up a sword.  That is ridiculous in a warzone, less they are peasants. I do not want a peasant that doesn't know how to fight.  I don't want to have to worry about a team member that cant defend herself.  She is useless if she cant fight.

[aTigerslunch]

She isn't obsessed with clothes that I know of, she is obsessed with her appearance though. Cause she is high court material.

 

 

EDIT:  That gender neutral argument, I didn't catch any of it,  you been blocked for at least a week from me till tonight. I would have to consider looking, or you can bring me back to speed on what you meant neutral.

[Seraphim24]

I haven't played those games, I cant comment on those characters, I have to research them before I can say anything.

 

Give them a shot! Seriously, well, there a bit old at this point. Maybe you'll enjoy yourself though, lest everyone forgets that this is in fact the original reason for the post, to make the game more 'fun,' to have more fun and enjoy the games more. I mentioned Melia from Xenoblade because it's more recent.

 

You describe a woman "feminine" as someone that wont pick up a sword.  That is ridiculous in a warzone, less they are peasants. I do not want a peasant that doesn't know how to fight.  I don't want to have to worry about a team member that cant defend herself.  She is useless if she cant fight.

 

I did not, I said that a wanted more femininity, I was more vague in the original post than in the later ones but such was the cost of brevity. This hard binary division of "tough female" and "helpless peasant" does not accurately reflect 2014 realities. There are all kinds of women and all kinds of men. Heck, Elsa from Frozen was a character that resonated with a large variety of people because she was much more ambiguous.

[OptionFour]

OptionFour has posted mostly nothing but YOU GOT F***ING THINGS WRONG WITH YOU MATE type of material. I offer examples, he doesn't show interest in discussing them. It's like, I'm playing games that I really like and characters that I think are cool, so those are naturally the ones I can bring up.

 

It's like, ok, you have a fixation that a nice character means ultra submissive and lame, and yet you also haven't played of any of these supposed cool games. So... I guess you only have yourself to blame for the lack of diversity?

 

I'm pretty sure I offered you lengthier explanations for lengthier counter-arguments, but I'm not really sure how else I'm supposed to go into this when people just are flipping out all the time. I'm pretty sure I posted like a 11 paragraph response about female characters in the female inquisitor thread, and your response was "Ok, good thing we're done here." 

 

At a certain point, if no one is responding to those in a substantive manner, I'm not motivated to provide detailed responses.

 

Firstly, I believe I had one post in the manner you're referring to; it was particularly venomous. The rest haven't been like that. I'm not sorry for it though - sometimes when you say insulting things, insulting things are said back to you. Sucks.

I'm actually having trouble deciphering the rest of the post I quoted. Is that written to me? I ask because if it is then there's a crossed-wire there. I never said or did any of those things.

 

Other than that, if you notice that you've got a twelve page thread where I think . . . one person, perhaps, kinda-sorta agreed with you, and the others are all "flipping out all the time", have you considered that you may be wrong? Not to be too much of a smartass, but I mean it - have you actually heard what anyone else has said and genuinely considered it?

[aTigerslunch]

that's my concern, Kefka didn't look to be acknowledging anyones retort. At least this time Kefka did with my sword peasant combo post. I grant Kefka on this post. Nice. You responded to a full post and not just part, You actually gained a lil respect from me on that.

 

Vaguely saying something can cause issues, I had the same ordeal in another thread, where I was vague and got attacked, I had to correctly say it and apologized for being vague in that post. I hadn't read much more of your posts in along while to see you say, women can pick up a sword and defend themselves. Initially that wasn't what I was seen from you before I blocked you.

[Seraphim24]

Other than that, if you notice that you've got a twelve page thread where I think . . . one person, perhaps, kinda-sorta agreed with you, and the others are all "flipping out all the time", have you considered that you may be wrong? Not to be too much of a smartass, but I mean it - have you actually heard what anyone else has said and genuinely considered it?

 

It's kind of impossible to be wrong that there are 6 males and 3 females as playable companions, it's a pretty objective measuring thing.

 

As to the part about Vivienne, Cassandra, Sera being manly... I don't know what else to say. The girls I know that I think of as very feminine and so on I think would find those characters at least fairly overbearing. I'm sure other people would find them to be somewhat accurate representations of themselves or other people I know. The problem is this is about what I like, and I can't change the feeling I have which is that they aren't as appealing to me as they might otherwise be, that's not an argument or something that's really right or wrong, it just is.

 

These logic bubbles people keep creating like "so you can't be a woman and like fighting" are little worlds where you can be "right or wrong" I suppose, but I don't think I myself have really ever created or perpetuated one, nor do I care about them.

 

Right or wrong... if there's a quintessentially masculine characteristic that would be it.

[Seraphim24]

that's my concern, Kefka didn't look to be acknowledging anyones retort. At least this time Kefka did with my sword peasant combo post. I grant Kefka on this post. Nice. You responded to a full post and not just part, You actually gained a lil respect from me on that.

 

I'm kind of concerned about the level of animosity towards the helpless peasant girl though, that's probably why I wasn't very much interested in addressing those kinds of things. Pure of heart, weak of spirit is a character that has pretty potent resonance in a lot of areas still, although again I'm not really fixated on that, she can wield a sword or talk back, as long as there is an interesting mix of qualities.

 

I don't necessarily dislike the gentle peasant girl or the hard-edged psycho with an axe or sword (The Hound), it seems like a lot of people wanted to make a point about how that kind of character was so bad or malicious. I mainly dislike when everyone's kind of a psycho with an axe. All the most popular entertainment products are the ones that can showcase how diverse you really are, I don't want Bioware to make the mistake of believing they have truly achieved diversity (for all the other things that I don't want to discuss here) when an essential vector seems missing.

[aTigerslunch]

Diversity on women are quite abundant. Even though a girl just shot up 5 guys, she could go home and plant a garden.  That is diversity and having the ability to be rounded out, just not some psycho continually killing.  I know Sera is helping so she can go back to doing what she likes to do without demons popping in and out of places. Cassandra wants everything settled, ordered. Vivienne wants order as well. Not sure what Cassie and  Vivienne would like on their downtime.  Something that will be seen once we walk the halls of Skyhold.  Leliana loves stories and also watches stars during camp times with Warden. Curious what her pass time is in Inquisition.  I think I may understand where you are trying to go with what you want, but again like last time wasn't wording things for others to understand.  If I am wrong on what I thought your saying then of course I will see your response.

 

Curious to what they do on their downtime, they are more dynamic than what we know of them. We have to wait and see what they like doing, and they should show us in Skyhold.