550 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

I was thinking more like

 

 

or....

 

[Seraphim24]

Ohhh or this one

 

 

Nice, happy, smiling, at least every once and awhile. Actually, the flower is symbolic in Valkyria Chronicles about representing new life in the midst of war.

[Seraphim24]

Well compare that to this

 

 

Erm, I think Nefla's picture was closer to the DA world than Valkyria or whatever.

 

I'm asking for real emotional connections, people that take chances, etc, that's what I think of as feminine. I'm not the one fixated on flowers or baking or whatever, that's a lot of other people here. I thought it was funny how often flowers came up in these other things, but that's not the sole way of displaying more calm emotions.

 

So many people in Dragon Age are just so cool and cutting and boring. When I know every conversation point is going to result in "well YOUR stupid" kind of chat it's uninspiring. I keep bringing up baking and flowers because they're just kind of calm and less heated activities that many people enjoy. Again, looking out at the stars, taking a break at camp, or really just letting go however possible. If one of them just went "oh, that's nice, I kind of fancy the forest myself," then maybe I'd care about their characters. They don't need to whip out a flower.

[Seraphim24]

Honestly I'm just over the gender and flower things, I don't want to bother with it anymore, it's too troublesome, I was meaning the flower scenes partially in jest and even that causes people to get upset, here's a scene of just something "nice." I don't even know what gender Fi is anyway. If people were seriously believing that I absolutely needed to have a flower in the game or something than that is most definitely the wrong message to be taking.

 

http://youtu.be/LslpFa_iSAI?t=3m47s

 

Cutting just means like every character in DA being kind of a jerk. Take Sten for instance, he's like what's your objective, I'm like "to stop the blight here," or something and he goes "that means you condemn everyone else to death," then I try and say something and he goes "DONT think too hard about that." He and many other DA characters are fixated on owning everyone, making sly comments that "cut" at the person for being a weakling or not grasping their super complicated emo personalities. I'm willing to tolerate this in deference to their bravery in battle or whatever, but if I prod and all they display is more violence I lose interest. There were characters that were "less" that way like Alistair or whatever, but even him, and increasingly more, characters are not.

 

These so fine and rich characters should not be mistaken from a 12 year old on CoD, which is the feeling I get at times. I can go to Morrigan and she's going to complain about humans not grasping her, or Iron Bull or Cole or Vivienne and my bet is they are going to be complaining about something. Logain's pissed, Alistair's pissed, everyone's upset and angry (most) of the time, a chill pill would be nice.

 

I don't want to disrupt your enjoyment of the game or people who are satisfied with the characters, but I personally don't want to be around people that are so full of hatred all the time. I can acknowledge Bioware for saying what's really on their mind with respect to creating characters and not deferring to archetypes created by other game companies and so on, but that doesn't mean I have to like what I see.

[Seraphim24]

I'm not saying they are pissed all the time, I'm saying they are pissed "most" of the time.

 

Also, it wasn't that Sten's opinion differed than mine, it's that there was all there was to his character as far as I can tell.

 

If I have to summarize the non-jerkiness it's like the DA:O version of Leliaina.. the first half of Alistair... bits and pieces of Morrigan... Bethany... maybe Sera.... um... a few others, compared to, a lot of other people. Creating the more clearly "nice" characters like Josephine and pushing them out of the campaign into this "advisory" role (seriously, why did that ever become a thing?) just makes the point that kind of strength isn't valued equally.

 

Nice and not nice should be equal, that's the vision of equality that I have, which apparently differs from Bioware's vision. Either that or they are simply guessing at what "nice" and " feminine" really means and failing pretty badly IMO, nice doesn't always mean being airy and distant, sometimes it means being extremely forthright and direct, hurtful, polite and nice shouldn't be equated either necessarily.

[Seraphim24]

Ohhkayy, Lenneth from Valkyrie Profile 1 then. Although technically you do play Beatrix a few times temporarily. (Edit actually Freya was pretty cool also from FFIX, and playable)

 

And fine, it's disagreement, not malice, (although I feel like you could argue they're kind of the same thing, but that might get too academic for these purposes).

 

Then the characters just disagree too much at times, it's like in DA:2, the mages hate the templars hate the this and the that and Qun is in conflict with the that and the templars are upset over this and the darkspawn-

 

CHILL, 10 seconds just CHILL, that's my feeling. I don't mind discussing the templars and the mages and the Qun and the homeland and the Tevinter, but then I want to occasionally get the feeling something else is going, or just do something else entirely. Perhaps they could stop raising questions and offer their own answers from time to time. That would make them stronger characters, in my mind, the capacity to raise (erm, sort of) interesting questions but also provide solutions.

 

Edit: I just personally (please don't throw this in with the flower thing) myself feel like all the DA:I characters (and maybe some BSNers) need a great big pillow to rest on for a bit, but they often seem so insular as to believe that isn't possible. I think it is, why not?

[Puppy Love]

I think the big problem is that all the characters typically only give a crap about their own problems and the warden's take on their problems.  I mean let's take Alistair for example, a sweet seeming guy, but he goes on and on and on about the things that bother him, you mention you're family getting killed he gets all uncomfortable and the conversation basically ends there.  This is true with most everyone.  Few of the characters actively give a crap or care about the warden, all lost in their own little world.

 

Three party members ever really talk to the warden or Hawke as a person, Varric, Leliana and Wynne.  They're the only ones that show any real concern for the Warden or Hawke outside how it directly benefits themselves.  Alistair for all his sweetness runs the second you have concerns and is only sweet with you because he wants to be with you, and the second it's an inconvenience he's quick to dip.  Few characters show any real concern for anything outside their own egocentric bubble, and as necessary to be in the plot.

 

Now I realize that a reason for this is because it's hard to do.  Especially as the player controls their character and there's no real way to demonstrate that without deciding too much for the pc about their character.  Wynne gets around it a lot by talking about things that have happened and asking the Warden how she feels about things that occur, asking how she's holding up, ect.  Varric does a lot of asking about Hawke's future and what Hawke wants, and makes an active attempt to help his friends.  Sadly neither Merril or Anders truly deserved it, considering what they do later, but he cared, gave them the benefit of the doubt and helped them anyway.  Want Cass to show similar traits, don't have her just stabbing books, shouting, and pushing her ideology and goals, if that's all we see it's all we know.  If she let's say cares about children for a random example, have her give a poor girl some bread. 

 

We need more characters showing compassion and humanity outside their little bubble.  Same as the bar scenes with people having fun helps show a human side of them, so does them showing concern and helping people outside their bubble, and occasionally being nice to the PC for no other reason than to be nice.

 

Anders breaks my heart, because he did demonstrate compassion and caring, but he ended up so broken that he ended up the worst of the worst for it.  Anders for all everyone's hatred of him really did demonstrate some kindness, he got his freedom and dedicated his life to helping others, but alas too broken for it to last or work out.

 

Now:

I can likely if I look hard enough find some of the humanizing things in each character, but it's pretty rare.  Most characters are here to either do their thing and/or accept the PC's advances romantically.  We don't see many of them being compassionate and caring people to others or the PC.  They're all walking ideologies.  I mean let's look at Fenris, now that is really a one minded/purposed character.

[Asdrubael Vect]

its damn 4 races and 2 kingdoms and many factions and we have nothing..mostly only companions and all advisors who are humans and pro Orlais/Chantry/Templars....not any companion or advisor from Dalish,rebellion mages, Orzammar/Kal-Sharok Dwarves, Tevinters(not another criminal, and even exile with shame like Dorian sh*t), Nevarran, Barbarians(like Avvars,Chasind), Tal-Vashots

 

and now we do not have even elven females to romace..the only non human and non Orlais/Chantry/Templar girl in party is restricted to only womans

 

yes, we need more elven, dwarven and kossith females to our companions/advisors and to romance

[Seraphim24]

They do. Some mages and templars get along, Sten can get along quite swimmingly with the non-Qunari Warden, the Arishok can respect Hawke, and the darkspawn are beasts so of course everyone hates them.


But they all have their own "ideals" which comprise their answers, Sten's answer is service to the Qun in all things, Anders' answer is tearing down the Circle system, Merrill's answer is recovering the history of the Elvhen, maybe you're just not paying attention to the answers they're giving because you can't get over this or that.

 

 

I probably wouldn't have bothered posting here if they never showed anything I care about. It's just while I thought it was fairly rich in BG (although arguably it was simply more gameplay focused) it was heavily watered down in DA:O, and now I strain to really recognize it in DA:I.

 

I think those are all kind of "masculine answers," is the issue. Again, I'm not disputing that these people exist and are fine and dandy people and so on. Service to an organization, recording history to redeem a political cause, burning down the established order, that's all well and nice, but what about "my" ideals. What if my ideals aren't necessarily encompassed by those particular ideals? Maybe I don't like the Chantry, maybe I don't want to see history go to waste, but maybe (like in Xenoblade Chronicles), I also just like looking at the comets flying through the sky, or helping some random guy express his affection to some other girl, from time to time.

 

Also, what if the church has some redeeming qualities? What if the history of the elves is tainted? (Channeling my inner Sten here)

[Seraphim24]

I think the big problem is that all the characters typically only give a crap about their own problems and the warden's take on their problems.  I mean let's take Alistair for example, a sweet seeming guy, but he goes on and on and on about the things that bother him, you mention you're family getting killed he gets all uncomfortable and the conversation basically ends there.  This is true with most everyone.  Few of the characters actively give a crap or care about the warden, all lost in their own little world.

 

That's a decent summation also. There are tons of people this way IRL, I see some people strain to open up to other people when they're in their own world. However, there are definitely some people that achieve it more successfully than others.

[Seraphim24]

I would challenge Bioware to take that chance on understanding themselves and the PC and possibly be right though, it would at least be more interesting to me, even if they were wrong.

[Puppy Love]

Right but they have gotten around it before.  Wynne as I said, stuff happens in game, and you can tailor to an extent something based of that.  I found Wynne amazing, she talked to the Warden about the Warden.  She actually pulled it off.  Not always perfectly, but still.

 

I think some NPC's just need a scene where it's about the character.  We're becoming the inquisitor, we've got a weird glowy hand, we're going to get a castle...  tons of crazy things will happen, some will be really bad, and same as we talk to them about things that happen to them, nothing stops them from doing the same about things that happen to us.  Show us they care about our character, and not just themselves and how our character feels about them.

 

I know some didn't care for Wynne, but we need someone like her.  Without her in the party I seriously have trouble not picturing my character breaking under the stress.  She recognized what the Warden had on her shoulders, and that the others were too unaware and self absorbed to deal with that, and that the Warden had to be tough for everyone else in the party.  She cared about things that might get the warden hurt, even if having to acknowledge being wrong later.  She was the Warden's rock, while the warden had to be everyone elses.

[Seraphim24]

I personally wasn't the biggest fan of Wynne, she was kind of distracted by her whole, <spoiler> imminent death and all. Of course... I can kind of understand that better.

 

Honestly though I could see it reflected in the other characters more than just the PC, I don't really believe that Sten and Vivienne and whoever are "all" about clothes and the Qun and so on, there is something else going on. Alternatively, there really isn't and I guess we're not a good match or whatever.

 

They always emit this aura of timidity, for some reason, despite their zeal for these various causes and the whole carry the big stick deal.

[Seraphim24]

Sten would be open? You think so? I really just don't.

 

Gosh, I guess I should just stay away from things like cookies, stars, nights out underneath the sky, nice clothes, hair, makeup, and a whole host of other things lest I incite any more wrath. God forbid those things aren't as horrible as people make them out to be.

 

Staying away from that then, here's a suggestion, I was watching this DA:2 clip of the Isabella romance, and suddenly she's going "you were right, I am better," "I'm selfish," I'm this, I'm that. I hate that, I can't stand "correcting," if this is supposed to be non-judgmental, that sh!t wouldn't exist. Every nano-second it pops up, my ears start grating. I've yet to meet a DA character who doesn't seem to comprehend that their way of aiding other people or assisting this cause or that cause wasn't just another expression of their selfishness. This whole repentance act with the oh no not me oh no is egotism, pure and simple.

 

And for the 80th time, fine, whatever, I'm not not going to squeal and run away at the mere sight of that, but I am going to demand that they make this squealing and moaning worth my while in some way. The sheer absence of soft and creamy centers to compensate for their demand for attention is why I go, meh.

 

When characters are just expressing what they themselves desire without hesitation, they don't fall into that trap, they wouldn't worry about the image of Isaeblla or her habits or whatever, and that is the only way it can be genuine.

 

These people need to stop freaking apologizing and go outside.

[Puppy Love]

I personally wasn't the biggest fan of Wynne, she was kind of distracted by her whole, <spoiler> imminent death and all. Of course... I can kind of understand that better.

 

Honestly though I could see it reflected in the other characters more than just the PC, I don't really believe that Sten and Vivienne and whoever are "all" about clothes and the Qun and so on, there is something else going on. Alternatively, there really isn't and I guess we're not a good match or whatever.

 

They always emit this aura of timidity, for some reason, despite their zeal for these various causes and the whole carry the big stick deal.

She was just old and dying and it made people uncomfortable.  Keep in mind despite that fact, she was primarily concerned with the Warden's well being not her own.

 

You have to pretty much drag her problems out of her.  I think Wynne being old put a lot of people off.  Old people make a lot of people uncomfortable for some reason, even if they refuse to admit it.  Wynne was distracted by it? bah you had to drag it out of her, seriously.  Wynne wasn't distracted by it, you were, as was everyone else.  And sadly it caused the pure gold of what her character pulled off to not be recognized and ignored.

 

No one could get over she was an old lady

[Seraphim24]

 

"Aura of timidity," one strange line after another.

 

I don't necessarily equate the warrior god with his giant axe, the up and climbing executive, the feisty archer, or the lord commander with harems of woman and sadism with 'strong,' It's a kind of strength, to win over others with your sword and so on, but you poke a little bit about the stars or the night, and they may very well flop over like a meek little sheep. Or ask them to do something that wasn't sort of "verified" by society first, a truly independent act, and nope, you won't get it. The test of a person isn't purely how Conan-like they may be although it certainly can be useful in a tough spot.

 

It's ironic of course because that obsession with perfection and rules can often be more debilitating than independent expression could ever be to a person.