550 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

But but...  I like long flowing hair and dresses... 

 

Why can't I put my hair up, and decorate my armor with more delicate patterns and colors and still kick butt?  And what's wrong with cooking and pie?  Adventurers need to eat too.  And why can't I flirt all girly like with my companions and kick butt too?  I miss Liliana and the hair and shoe talk...  sniffles...  We were so girly together...

It's not about cooking or long hair or whatever being bad, it's about limiting what a woman "should be" to one very narrow stereotype.

 

*edit*

 

If you want to go fishing, there are plenty of bait types that don't involve worms, each designed to attract different kinds of fish there's also light catching lures and such.

[AlexiaRevan]

@ Chernaya: It does feel like we are being stuck in a tiny box and someone has the key to it , aye ? 

 

@Puppy Love:  Only guys can fish ? Since when ? Nah , womens fish too . At least I know some who do and the fishes they catch is yummy . Unfortunatly , in rpg games most of the time you have to wear heavy armor  So you can stop that giant axe coming toward you lol . You can fish in games . I mean it doesn't look that gross in game does it ? 

Well maybe you won't have the dress in this coming game (unless mages robes count as such) but you still be kicking butt and craft as much as you want  I suck at crafting lol 

[Puppy Love]

It's not about cooking or long hair or whatever being bad, it's about limiting what a woman "should be" to one very narrow stereotype.

 

Oh I know!!!

 

It's just so often lumped with other negative traits, and as Leliana shows, one can like traditionally girly things and still kick butt.  We can be versatile you know.

 

One can like dresses, have long hair, and cook, and not get abducted by Bowser for a fat plumber to save over and over again. 

 

A woman can be strong, independent and enjoy all the traditionally feminine things.

[Puppy Love]

double post

[Puppy Love]

@ Chernaya: It does feel like we are being stuck in a tiny box and someone has the key to it , aye ? 

 

@Puppy Love:  Only guys can fish ? Since when ? Nah , womens fish too . At least I know some who do and the fishes they catch is yummy . Unfortunatly , in rpg games most of the time you have to wear heavy armor  So you can stop that giant axe coming toward you lol . You can fish in games . I mean it doesn't look that gross in game does it ? 

Well maybe you won't have the dress in this coming game (unless mages robes count as such) but you still be kicking butt and craft as much as you want  I suck at crafting lol 

 

I'm referencing games like dark cloud 2 where if I wanted to take part in picture taking or fishing or that golf thing which were the three most done things in the game I was forced to switch back to and spend all my time in the shoes of the male protagonist.  Meanwhile as the girl the only thing I got was the ability to turn into useless monster forms and talk to monsters with no side games.   Meanwhile the guy got this bad ass useful weapon of mass destruction which was his robot tank mecha thing. 

 

Then again I had a sword and he was smacking people around with a wrench, so I guess I win there

 

Just have memories of fishing a lot in games as men.

[AlexiaRevan]

Haha I see . Well I never heard or played this Dark Cloud 2 you are mentioning . But being a big monster is cool ! I want to be Girlzilla and go ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!  haha and I bet that mecha thing all he could do is boil water and answer the door ! YOU WIN You had the sword ! 

[Nefla]

Oh I know!!!

 

It's just so often lumped with other negative traits, and as Leliana shows, one can like traditionally girly things and still kick butt.  We can be versatile you know.

 

One can like dresses, have long hair, and cook, and not get abducted by Bowser for a fat plumber to save over and over again. 

 

A woman can be strong, independent and enjoy all the traditionally feminine things.

Definitely I love pretty dresses, shoes, purses and jewelry myself. Most of the things I own are covered in pink crystals I own more dresses than I do pants. What I don't like is people trying to dictate what a "real woman" should do or be. You're not a man if you have short hair or wear jeans. You're a woman who has short hair or wears jeans.

[OptionFour]

It's not about cooking or long hair or whatever being bad, it's about limiting what a woman "should be" to one very narrow stereotype.

 

*edit*

 

If you want to go fishing, there are plenty of bait types that don't involve worms, each designed to attract different kinds of fish there's also light catching lures and such.

 

Absolutely right there. I shudder to think what would happen if I told my wife (who loves baking, and flowers, and armour, and weight lifting, and sparring with me) that she wasn't feminine.

There's not enough mercy in the world for that.

[Puppy Love]

If you want to go fishing, there are plenty of bait types that don't involve worms, each designed to attract different kinds of fish there's also light catching lures and such.

 

I know that

 

Is less funny if I acknowledged that though

 

Besides if I ever went fishing in real life it would be more as an excuse to be on the water than anything else.

[Seraphim24]

Well, that is a lot of stuff but since the way I described the 3 "manly" women was problematic for many I'll just address that before I read any more.

 

My only real point there was that I wanted more women, but I personally am not satisfied with the fact that a woman simply has the physique of a female, I was hoping for one who transmitted a real feminine presence. Sera, Vivienne, and Cassandra are all feminine to a degree I'm sure, and in fact represent real personalities in many ways, but they don't overwhelm me with femininity. It's not based purely on their physical presence (tomboy with Sera), it's based on their just not having a profoundly powerful feminine presence, personality etc, to counter all the macho-ness.

 

If the lead character of Watch Dogs was just bodily transformed into a female but kept all the same lines and everything the same that doesn't really change my view of the game.

 

Rather than associate genders expressly with feminine or masculine characters, I'd simply say the overall balance of male to female energy is off.

[NextArishok]

you can never have enough girls.

[Seraphim24]

So now I will phrase it better , can you please name an exemple . A charachter from a movie or any other game that would fit your own picture of what is a Feminine Companion . 

 

Lucina from Fire Emblem was pretty great, although people might claim her as overly masculine or something. She seems fundamentally pretty feminine. The Skyward Sword version of Zelda was pretty solid IMO, although not technically a companion, she transmitted a gentle personality that was also fundamentally fairly driven.

[Seraphim24]

If you want a womanly woman with womanly traits, who's still badass... There is Josephine.

If you want a mysterious woman who's womanly, but badass and deadly... There is Leliana.

If you want a powerful woman, who's a fashion diva and definitly womanly and perfectly able to keep the men in line... There is Vivi.

If you want an even more powerful woman, who's definily womanly, badass AND deadly, who could totally kick everyone's ass and possibly already a mother... There is Morrigan. ;9

 

I was thinking mainly for another game. Josephine and Leliana are side characters (and technically then you would also add Cullen). Vivienne seems very obsessed with power and that seems to reflect her obsession with clothes, personally.

 

Morrigan isn't really in DA:I, at least not a companion.

 

Insulting the female companions that do exist, however, gets us nowhere. They're women. They're powerful characters and seem interesting. I couldn't ask for more from Cassandra, Vivienne and Sera and I'm looking forward to adventuring with them come November.

 

I think you just insulted them, not me, I said they had masculine characteristics, I didn't imply that was a bad thing. I also didn't leave out the possibly they possessed some degree of femininity. You, however, just said said I insulted them by describing them as having masculine characteristics, so does that mean you yourself don't value masculine characteristics?

[Seraphim24]

At the end of the day, if my options are a legion of women adhering to your ideas of what they should be, or the smaller cast of well written, diverse women that we do have in Inquisition? I'll choose the smaller cast 8 days a week. I'd love more women characters,but I want strong ones, weak ones, flawed ones, funny ones, serious ones, angry ones, obnoxiously sarcastic ones and everything in between. Women don't have to be or do anything in particular to be worth our attention and interest.

 

Did I say I wanted a legion? I said the ratio is 2:1, how about 1:1? That would mean, 3 more female characters in this instance.

 

Also you said you wanted everything in between but then said strong/sarcastic/wisecracking/angry/obnoxious/reckless, can I get a "Nice" or "Polite" in there?

[Seraphim24]

If you're talking about seeing women depicted in positions of strength and competence, I wouldn't be opposed to that. Your comments about a "proper, feminine companion" leave me vexed, however. Based on your OP and your following comments, I don't think many people want the same depiction of women as you.

 

I'm saying there's an incessant bias about 'strength' and 'competence,' it's just nauseating. Every game nowadays is just so big and epic and hard charging and heartpounding and I'm like dear god just give it a rest now and then.

 

To say a woman is basically a man because she isn't traditionally or stereotypical feminine is really rude. Would you say that a calm, sensitive and timid male character was basically a woman? Are these personality traits all that define gender? I'd love more female characters, but dismissing the ones we have because they don't fit within sexist stereotypes isn't fair.

 

Yeah, I would say he's basically a woman. Of course, basically being the key term here, men share feminine characteristics and women share masculine characteristics all the time, big deal. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm saying in this instance, it's loaded in one way. Is Cassandra as masculine as Iron Bull? No, probably not, but she's pretty up and aggressive about a lot of things that makes me feel she probably fits in more with men generally.

[Seraphim24]

But I think the OP's complaint is more that there isn't some 'stereotypically feminine' character...this may be in part due to DA:I having an older cast compared to most RPGs so characters that are more naive/innocent may be less likely.

 

I could easily say that's biased and offensive to what you call "naive" feminine women. Perhaps those women just appear that way to you in order to be nice and calming, that facade is meant to achieve something.

 

Secondly: you want a "feminine" woman?

 

 

 

Leliana and Josephine or whatever her name is aren't companions.

[OptionFour]

Well, that is a lot of stuff but since the way I described the 3 "manly" women was problematic for many I'll just address that before I read any more.

 

My only real point there was that I wanted more women, but I personally am not satisfied with the fact that a woman simply has the physique of a female, I was hoping for one who transmitted a real feminine presence. Sera, Vivienne, and Cassandra are all feminine to a degree I'm sure, and in fact represent real personalities in many ways, but they don't overwhelm me with femininity. It's not based purely on their physical presence (tomboy with Sera), it's based on their just not having a profoundly powerful feminine presence, personality etc, to counter all the macho-ness.

 

I had to note that in one way or another that because if the next Dragon Age or whatever had 8 women companions all of which were muscle-bound lumberjacks who worked in salt mills and got constantly into alcoholic fights and liked shooting off machine guns in the forests and yelling Tango down! I would not consider the issue resolved. If the lead character of Watch Dogs was just bodily transformed into a female but kept all the same lines and everything the same that doesn't really change my view of the game.

 

Rather than associate genders expressly with feminine or masculine characters, I'd simply say the overall balance of male to female energy is off.

 

Muscle-bound lumberjacks who worked in Salt Mills and constantly get into alcoholic fights, and liked shooting off machine guns in the forests, and yelling 'Tango Down'?

 

I know this will probably get me into trouble, but you're just such an *******. You don't even have a ****** clue. So women have to be a version of 1950s feminine all the time just to please you? You're bloody disgusting, mate.

[Samahl]

Yeah, I would say he's basically a woman.

 

how do you exist

[Seraphim24]

I do not understand your point.  There are women all over DA.  OP, it sounds like you want the women to be more feminine.  It seems like you are mistaking your argument which really seems to be, "I want the women to be more like I want the women to be," not "I want more women in the game."  There are all sorts of female characters in positions of power in previous DA games, not to mention companions, and the possibility of playing as a female.  What are you asking for that you haven't been getting?  

 

"previous DA games," for the sake of argumentation, can people please drop previous DA games? I don't care about previous DA games, I've played them already, I'm bored of them.

 

That's the problem he has though, women with power or skill or ambition=men. I'm guessing he wants demure princess type characters with long flowing hair and dresses. Non combatants of course who will blush when they see the male Inquisitor and then scurry off to bake him a pie and pine over him. Also she should be kidnapped often and need to be rescued by the male Inquisitor. This is how a woman SHOULD be! None of that "being a leader" or "being a skilled fighter" or "having short hair" business!

 

Yep, that's exactly what I want you got it exactly, how do you know so much.

[Seraphim24]

Muscle-bound lumberjacks who worked in Salt Mills and constantly get into alcoholic fights, and liked shooting off machine guns in the forests, and yelling 'Tango Down'?

 

I know this will probably get me into trouble, but you're just such an *******. You don't even have a ****** clue. So women have to be a version of 1950s feminine all the time just to please you? You're bloody disgusting, mate.

 

What?

 

This clearly has given you a kind of cramp of some kind, lets just say, if Watch Dogs changed the main male character to a female, bodily, but left everything else in tact, that doesn't really make me go, oh yay, Ubisoft, now there's a female character front and center.

 

Also, Lara Croft from Tomb Raider just came to mind as a pretty fairly balanced masculine/feminine character, although she is very clearly more of an adventurous type.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Did I say I wanted a legion? I said the ratio is 2:1, how about 1:1? That would mean, 3 more female characters in this instance.

 

Also you said you wanted everything in between but then said strong/sarcastic/wisecracking/angry/obnoxious/reckless, can I get a "Nice" or "Polite" in there?

 

Oddly, most women are capable of expressing more than one emotion throughout the course of a 100 hour adventure.

 

Yeah, I would say he's basically a woman. Of course, basically being the key term here, men share feminine characteristics and women share masculine characteristics all the time, big deal. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm saying in this instance, it's loaded in one way. Is Cassandra as masculine as Iron Bull? No, probably not, but she's pretty up and aggressive about a lot of things that makes me feel she probably fits in more with men generally.

 

Yeh. There really aren't words for this one, since I don't think anything anyone said would make you understand why this is messed up and problematic and flat out wrong but here it goes...

 

Women can be whatever they want to be, can act however they want to and non of that makes them less of a woman. Men can act however they want and that doesn't make them less of a man. If IronBull's pass times were cooking, knitting, designing Viv's dresses, and nurturing rescued kittens back to health he would still be the awesomest badass to walk the earth. And Cass isn't any less of a woman for wanting to beat the crap outta people and save Thedas.

[Seraphim24]

Gosh Kefka, things just never go well for you here huh.    

I guess if you just want more 'traditionally feminine' characters, leaving aside... how you describe the other characters by way of comparison, that's a reasonable desire. Though, obviously too late for this game.

 

Indeed, however it seems to me that they often take issue with how I phrase or characterize something, when there is a larger point to be made, so I don't know, it doesn't really bother me too much.

[Seraphim24]

Oddly, most women are capable of expressing more than one emotion throughout the course of a 100 hour adventure.

 

 

Yeh. There really aren't words for this one, since I don't think anything anyone said would make you understand why this is messed up and problematic and flat out wrong but here it goes...

 

Women can be whatever they want to be, can act however they want to and non of that makes them less of a woman. Men can act however they want and that doesn't make them less of a man. If IronBull's pass times were cooking, knitting, designing Viv's dresses, and nurturing rescued kittens back to health he would still be the awesomest badass to walk the earth. And Cass isn't any less of a woman for wanting to beat the crap outta people and save Thedas.

 

Why are you guys so offended by the referencing of traditional feminine and masculine charactersitics? I"m just using it as a reference point for describing what I want to see. I'm not saying Vivienne, Cassandra, and Sera aren't people or whatever else you guys have thrown up there. I just said, I'm searching for a really feminine character, and while maybe they are more feminine than the men, that doesn't suddenly make them the kind of character I'm hoping to see. That's all it is.

 

Not one time have I said the currently existing DA:I characters are bad, I simply said that something I want to see is missing.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Indeed, however it seems to me that they often take issue with how I phrase or characterize something, when there is a larger point to be made, so I don't know, it doesn't really bother me too much.

No believe me,  your 'larger point' is well understood. You aren't some misunderstood crusader all alone in your fight for justice and equal representation. You are either deliberately or through a stubborn amount of ignorance being radically insulting to a vast array of people and you aren't helping accomplish this thing you supposedly want.

 

If you're really sincere, please take the time to carefully think through some of the more polite and well worded requests that have been sent your way and see if you can't figure out what some of the issues are.