550 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lucina from Fire Emblem was pretty great, although people might claim her as overly masculine or something. She seems fundamentally pretty feminine.

The Fire Emblem fan in me immediately supports any characters being like Fire Emblem characters.

[AutumnWitch]

The is a damned if you don't and damned if you do issue. All the women in DAI are women of action, character and ability probably working twice as hard as most men and getting half the respect. But if BW went with a whole bunch of let's say "Isabela" types they'd be called sexists.

 

I think the women in DAI are just fine, I find powerful women VERY sexy and alluring. And none of them in DAI are bad looking they're just not running around in their underwear.

 

Keep up the good work BW

[Nohvarr]

Personally I think OP is making a big mistake by discounting the adviser characters. From what we've been told and the example we have from the trailer with Leliana  on a mission, leads me to believe they will play a much larger role in the game than OP is willing to admit. So the actual ratio is 7:5, with Josephine at first glance, appearing to have the exact qualities the OP is looking for in a female character.

 

I have other issues with the OP's comments but others appear to have adequately commented on those same issues so I will leave it alone.

 

[WildOrchid]

The promotional materials describe Vivienne as "The lady of Iron," and in fact, her personality seems to mesh closely with a Margaret Thatcher type for the most part.

 

It's hilarious how you like pretty submissive, "feminine" women considering you have Lightning Farron as your avatar. Which in personality terms, she's exactly like Cassandra.

 

She's not the "definition of feminity" by your "standards", at all.

[Pasquale1234]

Trying to piece together what OP is really asking for, and how OP perceives the notion of femininity.
 

Basically someone that isn't waiting with baited breath to "get" someone argumentatively, or is otherwise predisposed being negative or cynical or weird about every little thing. That would be a starting point, but it would take a lot more than that. Probably a lot more conservative, generally.
 
Actually, an essential element would be that they don't tend to give commands like DEFINE THIS, just as an example.

Apparently, femininity means:
-you cannot disagree, be negative, cynical, suspicious, or analytical about anything, but instead maintain a pleasant, pleasing demeanor at all times and accept whatever is presented to you without question.
-you cannot be authoritative or assertive in pursuing your personal goals, and any "requests" must be delivered with a velvet glove.

 

I'm saying there's an incessant bias about 'strength' and 'competence,' it's just nauseating. Every game nowadays is just so big and epic and hard charging and heartpounding and I'm like dear god just give it a rest now and then.

And here the purpose of femininity is to:
- "give it a rest" by being not strong, not competent, and reducing scope. Got it.
 

Yeah, I would say he's basically a woman. Of course, basically being the key term here, men share feminine characteristics and women share masculine characteristics all the time, big deal. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm saying in this instance, it's loaded in one way. Is Cassandra as masculine as Iron Bull? No, probably not, but she's pretty up and aggressive about a lot of things that makes me feel she probably fits in more with men generally.

I guess that means that a proper woman must behave herself by never being "up and aggressive" about anything, even when the world at large is in peril. I suppose she's supposed to demurely bat her eyes and wait for the male hero to come along and fix everything.
 

What?

This clearly has given you a kind of cramp of some kind, lets just say, if Watch Dogs changed the main male character to a female, bodily, but left everything else in tact, that doesn't really make me go, oh yay, Ubisoft, now there's a female character front and center.

When a female disagrees with a male, it must mean she has a cramp or is somehow PMSing.

When put into the exact same situation, a woman is expected to react differently and behave differently than a man would. Since male is the default, a female must be somehow othered. Our language even reflects the notion that a male is a default human being; the words woman and female are variations of man and male. A male character can simply go about the business of following a plot with no need to demonstrate that he is anything other than a default human being. Female characters are apparently supposed to demonstrate that they are female by doing something "feminine".

COMMENTARY:

Whenever we talk about "traditional" women (or femininity) in media, we are primarily talking about characters whose entire existence was to further the storyline of the male lead, or simply serve as eye candy / victim / sex object. These characters are mostly disempowered to provide contrast to further empower the male lead; active vs. passive, strong and secure vs. weak and vulnerable, the actor vs. the acted upon. The vast majority of them are window dressing, not fully fleshed out characters with any personal goals or ambitions beyond that which would serve the male's story.

All too often, they are the inspiration or the reward for the male hero's journey. Avenging the loss of a wife or daughter, rescuing the damsel who herself is the hero's reward are pretty common tropes in a lot of media. The damsel can only await her eventual rescue, yet the male hero is always able to escape whatever dangers he encounters.

These are the sorts of roles that women have traditionally played in media.

Bioware writes female characters who are whole people in their own right. They think for themselves and have their own interests, goals, and agendas. They are not sitting around waiting to be rescued, but pursuing solutions on their own.

The other problem with your request is that you currently know very little about these characters. Some of the traits or behaviors you might consider "feminine" might actually be demonstrated in the actual game.

[Steelcan]

and this thread is still entertaining

[lethal_nm]

agree to this arguement there should be more female companions. however, you are forgetting the main part that player is allowed to give the most important role to a female character known as INQUISITOR

[AresKeith]

I could easily say that's biased and offensive to what you call "naive" feminine women. Perhaps those women just appear that way to you in order to be nice and calming, that facade is meant to achieve something.


Leliana and Josephine or whatever her name is aren't companions.

Just because they aren't companions doesn't change anything

[Seraphim24]

I think most of you guys are over thinking this, going on about traditional roles of femininity in the media and so on.

 

You said in a previous post (I cant quote on this laptop) that your tired of all these so big and epic and hard charging and heartpounding and wish for it to given rest. YOU said that.

 

Yes, I did say THAT, how you pulled out oh I hate any game with action or action games I have no idea. Saying "give it a rest" doesn't preclude the possibility of being in the middle of the action game, there's a brief moment where they go, you know, the sun is really great, before going right back to the action. Proper contrasts, and such.

 

The is a damned if you don't and damned if you do issue. All the women in DAI are women of action, character and ability probably working twice as hard as most men and getting half the respect. But if BW went with a whole bunch of let's say "Isabela" types they'd be called sexists.

 

Maybe BW should just go with whatever they feel like and stop worrying about whether that pleases every living being in the universe then. This frustration with not having a "perfect" answer never goes away, so... that's kind of the only thing you can do at that point. If they want sexy Isabela they should make sexy Isabela, if they want the Iron Lady, they can have the Iron lady. I'm thinking of a kind of female that isn't really overly sexy or tough-minded necessarily, I believe it's possible.

 

The simple point I've made, is that we already have the Iron Bull, why do we also have the Iron Lady? Where is the "Lady?"... and seriously what's with all the rock analogies?

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

The is a damned if you don't and damned if you do issue. All the women in DAI are women of action, character and ability probably working twice as hard as most men and getting half the respect.

 

That's just Isabela's biased opinion, and she is used to being surrounded by rowdy, uncivilized pirates. Considering how many women fill the top positions in Thedan society (Divine Justinia, Paragon Branka, First Enchanter Fiona, Empress Celene, Queen Anora etc.) I really doubt women in general are being treated with less respect. Quite the contrary.

 

As for the working twice as hard, that's rather sexist. I'm sure the men in DAI aren't lazy dandies waiting to be served.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Maybe BW should just go with whatever they feel like and stop worrying about whether that pleases every living being in the universe then

 

 

orly?

 

i just wanted someone like Merril and Velanna, or Dagna, Sigrun in party for my non-shem and mage Inquisitor to romance and party

 

i just wanted some non-shem females, companions who is not like Orlais Empire, Orlais Chantry, Templars and who is not "Isabella/Lelianna/Zevran" types of character

 

and what?

 

 

1)my elf/kossith mage(and not have blood magic) or dwarf Inquisitor would be called as "Andraste herald"

 

2)forced to have advisors who never like and never respect and trust, and 1 of them who is "lying ex bard-assasin prostitute who killed dozens of people for shoes and sex with her girlfriend pimp and after she left her die and our dump killer was saved by ex-bard Divine, she turned herself to be religious fanatic who portrait herself as saint but still a bard" my Warden already killed

 

and my Warden Hawke and Inquisitor REALLY wanted to execute that Templar bastard captain who was in charge of Kirkwall massacre and many Templars crimes for 10 years because he was stupid and do not listen and was against others captains who have some brains and was against Meredith..he was bad in command and bad in battle and do bad things for what he must be executed but he is our general and we cant rid of him

 

Josephine is Antivan merchant, ambassador in Orlais, old friend of Lelianna and bisexual for any Inquisitor-promiscuous....i really doubt that i would like or respect her...for me, now she is another  Isabella/Zevran/Lelianna, maybe i would be wrong and she would not be that bad as them but i doubt. because i do not know any Antivan and old Lelianna friend who was good.

 

3)forced to have Orlais Chantry zealot, Seeker and mental unstable tomboy steroid soldier Cassandra and who would even put sword on Inquisitor...i do not like her in DA2 not in anime and especially in Inquisiton...She is worst than hybrid of Ashley and Jack in ME

 

4)not have any non-human and non-Orlais/Chantry/Templars female in party and to romance..in DAO we have Morrigan, in Awakening Velanna and Sigrun and in DA2 Merril...and now we have 2 kingdoms and many factions to alliance and to be enemies...and what we have? 1 pro Orlais and Chantry Cirlce female, 1 city elf(the only female nonhuman in party) lesbian who looks like joffrey baraeton and damn Cassandra with Josephine

 

at least females non-humans Inquisitors get Solas and Bull(even if he is a damn Qunari spy and not a real Tal Vashot)

 

damn the only males in party with what my Inquisitor would be friend is Solas and Blackwall

 

and Sera as the only female friend

 

from others i would like to get rid/execute...expecially from Cole Cullen Lelianna and Cassandra

[mikeymoonshine]

I think the fact that there are only 3 female companions is slightly annoying but I am over it now. It looks like there are a good amount of female characters in the game of all shapes and sizes. 

 

I am somewhat confused as to what the OP wants though. Masculine and feminine are not the same thing as male and female authoritative women exist, tomboys exist. I assumed Vivienne's "The Iron Lady/Lady Of Iron" nickname was a reference to Margeret Thatcher who was also nicknamed "The Iron Lady" and was indeed a woman (although let's hope Viv isn't too much like her). 

 

Sex is not the most important factor in a character. Pretty much all personality traits I can think of appear in both sexes. I wouldn't call any of the women in DA (even Cass and Aveline) completely unfeminine but even if they were, why does it matter so much? 

[Chiramu]

Sounds like Japanese dating sims are right up your alley. The girls are young, submissive, shy, unaccomplished, etc...

 

You haven't actually seen much of Visual Novels have you?

 

The shy girl is one character. There are many other characters.

 

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with the female companions. I'm only disappointed that our female PC is so strong, beautiful and a good leader. What if I'm as bad a leader as Alistair assumes he will be?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Josephine is Antivan merchant, ambassador in Orlais, old friend of Lelianna and bisexual for any Inquisitor-promiscuous....i really doubt that i would like or respect her...for me, now she is another  Isabella/Zevran/Lelianna, maybe i would be wrong and she would not be that bad as them but i doubt. because i do not know any Antivan and old Lelianna friend who was good.

Just because she is an un-racegated bisexual does not mean Josephine is promiscuous. Merrill was bisexual and she was the virgin option of DA2. And considering words Bioware used to describe Merrill are also being used to describe Josephine, I think she will be more like Merrill than Isabela. Besides, Iron Bull already fills the promiscuous romance role. 

[Seraphim24]

Sounds like Japanese dating sims are right up your alley. The girls are young, submissive, shy, unaccomplished, etc...

 

Are they? It sounds like you might be projecting those ideas, so perhaps you have a fascination with Japanese dating sims? Nonetheless I have no real interest in dating sims of any country because for whatever reason I do not have the patience for visual novels or things like this, it's an attention span thing or something.

 

It's interesting you use "submissive" and "shy" because I would ascribe that to the BW characters more than anything. DA:2 is arguably a western dating sim at this point, a bunch of hyper aggressive characters instead of hyper gentle ones.

I am somewhat confused as to what the OP wants though.

 

A cool female character.

 

 I wouldn't call any of the women in DA (even Cass and Aveline) completely unfeminine but even if they were, why does it matter so much? 

 

Um because femininity is a real quality and exists in a ton of people everywhere? BW wants representation right? If the women are unfeminine, and you know, the uh men are basically not feminine (gender-wise and personality wise), that leaves umm... no one?

 

orly?

 

i just wanted someone like Merril and Velanna, or Dagna, Sigrun in party for my non-shem and mage Inquisitor to romance and party

 

<A lot more stuff>

 

it sounds like they succeeded in capturing your interest, at least.

[Bugsie]

Yes, I want more female characters, more feminine characters like Cassandra, Vivienne, Sera and Josephine please Bioware!

[mikeymoonshine]

 

Um because femininity is a real quality and exists in a ton of people everywhere? BW wants representation right? If the women are unfeminine, and you know, the uh men are basically not feminine (gender-wise and personality wise), that leaves umm... no one?

 

 

Bioware can't represent everything, why is a characters worth defined by how feminine they are (whatever the hell it is you mean by feminine)

 

Maybe you didn't fully understand my comment. "masculine and feminine are not the same thing as male and female"

 

Men can be feminine in all kinds of ways and how do you know what all the characters personalities are? 

[Elton John]

The OP has never played a Bioware game before have they? There are always plenty of female characters both as companions and plot characters. Dragon Age 2 was a good example of this with the main antagonist being female themselves. I don't see the problem. "But the promotions show a male main character!" Yeah because the main audience consists of males.

[Nefla]

Oh hey, I swore I wouldn't do this again, but its too hard to resist. Its the bloke who wanted a lot of female companions with hobbies like baking, and picking flowers, and such like; I believe specifically asking for a companion that stayed up all night choosing the right flower to give you, wasn't it? Even though this is a game about a war.

 

It was rubbish then and its rubbish now. Anyone who engages Kefka on this topic can expect him to fail to respond to any well-made points, and then proceed to move his goalposts throughout. Enjoy.

 

OptionFour warned us but we didn't listen to them!

[aTigerslunch]

I think most of you guys are over thinking this, going on about traditional roles of femininity in the media and so on.


Yes, I did say THAT, how you pulled out oh I hate any game with action or action games I have no idea. Saying "give it a rest" doesn't preclude the possibility of being in the middle of the action game, there's a brief moment where they go, you know, the sun is really great, before going right back to the action. Proper contrasts, and such.


Maybe BW should just go with whatever they feel like and stop worrying about whether that pleases every living being in the universe then. This frustration with not having a "perfect" answer never goes away, so... that's kind of the only thing you can do at that point. If they want sexy Isabela they should make sexy Isabela, if they want the Iron Lady, they can have the Iron lady. I'm thinking of a kind of female that isn't really overly sexy or tough-minded necessarily, I believe it's possible.

The simple point I've made, is that we already have the Iron Bull, why do we also have the Iron Lady? Where is the "Lady?"... and seriously what's with all the rock analogies?

Ok. So what I think your asking is this. Hopefully I read this right as far as your quote to mine.

You want a moment of rest before going back to the action. Example that I think of is when two people just faced a harrowing experience (danger and lived) that they can sit in a park for a few and enjoy the sites (till player initiates leaving that sequence). I think I figured it out. Yes, that is generally done at the home or camp or base of operation. Nothing does stop you from sitting in an area before moving on. You do ask for a scene of pleasantries for a moment in middle of all that. Makes sense. But dont use "all" as that refers to each time, which is what you said. Try saying.

I would like a moment of rest with my companions in a scene away from action please.

Is that what you want? I agree to it.

Women, not tough minded? You do astound me. I have yet met a woman that will not get aggressive when someone threatens them. Regardless, these women in the game will be rough at times and peaceful at other times, just like real women. You want their soft spots they will have those too.

Again, Vivienne is a lady. You diverted away from what I brought up earlier. Ladies of 1600's to 1800's is Vivienne and she is ladies of 1600's to 1800's. They most times will not get walked on by common rabble, they never did when they are part of the upper class. This is Vivienne and you will get to see more of who she is when it comes out.

At this point, I am done with this thread, as it seems to only wish to instigate argument for joy. I maybe wrong but that is what I see. Of course you can argue that your not and thereby proving its true you seek arguments.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

We have two feminine and ladylike women on the Inquisition team :- Vivienne and Josephine.

 

I suppose the question that we have to ask first is, what makes a woman feminine and ladylike ? A woman can be considered feminine and ladylike when she has class, dignity, elegance, intelligence and confidence. 

 

Vivienne and Josephine both have these qualities. Both are fashionable, both are elegant, both are well educated, both are powerful, both are not crass / crude and both are good at what they do.

 

When it comes to females in the Inquisition team, you have :- The Butch (Cassandra), The Tomboy (Sera), The Ladies (Vivienne & Josephine), the out-of-reach-and-unavailable (Leliana).

 

There are plenty of options for everyone. 

[coldflame]

So much bias. Why cant we be ourselves and not conform into what society dictates?

 

'Because I am always right and you are always wrong. If you do not accept my world view then you are a bad person and deserve to be judged and publicly humiliated.' BSN mentality or even just internet in general. Entertaining nevertheless.

[Bugsie]

We have two feminine and ladylike women on the Inquisition team :- Vivienne and Josephine.
 
I suppose the question that we have to ask first is, what makes a woman feminine and ladylike ? A woman can be considered feminine and ladylike when she has class, dignity, elegance, intelligence and confidence. 
 
Vivienne and Josephine both have these qualities. Both are fashionable, both are elegant, both are well educated, both are powerful, both are not crass / crude and both are good at what they do.
 
When it comes to females in the Inquisition team, you have :- The Butch (Cassandra), The Tomboy (Sera), The Ladies (Vivienne & Josephine), the out-of-reach-and-unavailable (Leliana).
 
There are plenty of options for everyone.

yeah, I think people's view of what is feminine (and masculine) varies, and depends on things outside of this game, but I think DA:I has done a reasonable job at representing a range of personal aesthetics.

Of course, unlike the OP who likes judging books by their covers, I'll wait till I've actually played the game before making any reasoned and reasonable assessment.

Oh and I'll likely be able to do it without insults too.