157 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

In dungeons and dragons, there is a thing called alignments, 9 classifying designations that generally dictate a person, places, or things behavior. It is divided between a combination of 2 categories, Good, Neutral, and Evil, and Lawful, Neutral, Chaotic.

 

Lawful evil is defined as "great respecters of laws and strict order, but life, beauty, truth, freedom, and the like are held as valueless, or at least scorned. By adhering to stringent discipline, those of lawful evil alignments hope to impose their yoke upon the world. Obviously, all order is not good, nor are all laws beneficial. Lawful evil creatures consider order as the means by which each group is properly placed in the cosmos, from the lowest to the highest, strongest first, weakest last. Good is seen as an excuse to promote the mediocrity of the whole and suppress the better and more capable, while lawful evilness allows each group to structure itself and fix its place as compared to others, serving the stronger, but being served by the weaker." ((http://easydamus.com/lawfulevil.html))

 

This seems to fit the qun pretty well say for one or two things, given varied interpretations, but in the qun everyone is kept in their place, with the most able being in positions of power while those weaker are given a role to serve them for life, without choice or say. Even your name is decided for you and to go against the qun is to welcome your own death or severe punishment. This adherence to the law without regard for the people the law serves makes the qun in my eyes lawful evil.

[Ophir147]

As much as I dislike the qun, I think they are a bit too egalitarian to be considered lawful evil.

[Maria Caliban]

As much as I dislike the qun, I think they are a bit too egalitarian to be considered lawful evil.

That part where they lobotomize people is rather evil. As is signing a treaty that you never intend to honor, so you have time to properly build up your army and conquer everyone.

[The Night Haunter]

I'd say the Qun is Lawful Neutral. It has very strict rules, but is not actively evil in any way. They are bringing enlightenment to others, so that makes it fuzzy. Especially since in DnD Evil characters all know they are evil (a weird set up but w/e. Not at all similar to reality), and the Qunari see themselves as doing good. But you can make a case for anything really.

[Roamingmachine]

That or lawful neutral:
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Those of this alignment view regulation as all-important, taking a middle ground betwixt evil and good. This is because the ultimate harmony of the world--and the whole universe--is considered by lawful neutral creatures to have its sole hope rest upon law and order. Evil or good are immaterial beside the determined purpose of bringing all to predictability and regulation. It is the view of this alignment that law and order give purpose and meaning to everything. Without regimentation and strict definition, there would be no purpose in the cosmos. Therefore, whether a law is good or evil is of no import as long as it brings order and meaning. (1)

(same place as your quote)

 

Mainly because I've always viewed the qun more as a machine than as a society. People are just cogs and morality irrelevant to them.

[Zarathiel]

I wouldn't have a problem with the DnD alignment chart, if it had stayed in DnD. But with everyone trying to shoehorn everything into it, I wish it would just die in a fire already.

 

People and their motivations are more complex than a 3x3 grid can possibly allow.

[TheJediSaint]

The Qun is weird and frightening.

[Icy Magebane]

Yeah, but there's a lot of corruption inherent in Lawful Evil... the whole point is that such a character follows and promotes laws in order to maintain their own power and security, but they frequently accept bribes or commit murders if they think they can get away with it.  These character also tend to enjoy harming others and go out of their way to oppress the weak so long as the law is on their side (either that or they create such laws if they are in positions of power).  The Qun is IMO Lawful Neutral, as they strictly enforce the law with no concern for whether something is morally right or wrong...  Individual opinions may vary, but on the whole I think the philosophy is Neutral.

[Nimlowyn]

Depends on who you ask.

[The Night Haunter]

That part where they lobotomize people is rather evil. As is signing a treaty that you never intend to honor, so you have time to properly build up your army and conquer everyone.

No actual evidence of that yet. I'd say the Qunari have upheld their end of the treaty more than the Andrastians. The purges in Antiva and Rivain could have been considered violations of that treaty, yet the Qunari still continue to uphold it. The Kirkwall incident is their only (known to us at least) breach of the treaty. The 'treaty of convenience' idea is something players made up. Sten makes an occasional reference to it, but he is hardly a reliable source of Qunari internal politics. He is/was a field soldier.

I won't argue you can call them evil if you want, but there isn't really any religion in Thedas that can't be (legitimately) labelled as evil.

[Maria Caliban]

People and their motivations are more complex than a 3x3 grid can possibly allow.

The qunari aren't people.

[NextArishok]

The Qun is not evil the Qun is a way of life and offers a living to all that choose to follow it.  It is accepting of any race and anyone also provides the strongest warriors there are to offer.  You are placed where your skills and talents best benefit the people.

 

Look to your own lives and the lying, cheating, stealing, and murder.  Is the Qun more evil than the rest of the world?  One day you will see the light....one way or another.  Think about it bas.  Look to yourself and your own situations before casting judgement and see where the real problem is.

 

Get down or lay down.

 

Ataash Varin Kata

[The Night Haunter]

I wouldn't have a problem with the DnD alignment chart, if it had stayed in DnD. But with everyone trying to shoehorn everything into it, I wish it would just die in a fire already.

 

People and their motivations are more complex than a 3x3 grid can possibly allow.

Very true.

[The Night Haunter]

The qunari aren't people.

That's not very nice

[GipsyDangeresque]

 

Lawful evil is defined as "great respecters of laws and strict order, but life, beauty, truth, freedom, and the like are held as valueless, or at least scorned. 

 

Technically, this doesn't describe the Qun to a T. They do value all life, they value productivity and believe that every single person born into the Qun has some role to play in it (and that they MUST play that role.)

 

They can also be found to value Beauty. Sten loved paintings and sculptures. He admired the worksmanship, the skill and discipline of the artist and the creation they've produced. He found beauty in that. It was not romantic, no. But nonetheless, I think there is an argument to be made that the Qun is firmly Lawful Neutral in nature...

 

(Except for that little cruelty bugaboo involving mages...)

[ApfelBirne]

I would call it lawful neutral, but I also agree with Zarathiel that it's a really big oversimplification. 

[aTigerslunch]

I was going to say Lawful Neutral as well is more precise than Lawful Evil. They are not good nor are they evil from what I see.

[BloodyTalon]

Lawful Neutral  in its purest form. Its a code that is black and white, set rules, set laws and everything has a nice tidy place and chaos in any form is not accepted.

 

LAwful evil is more about Tyrants abusing the power they have and so on and being downright cruel to people not part of the upper levels and so on,

Sorry for typos and errors.

[DiscoGhost]

i would say lawful neutral, as what they do is more for the greater good and socialistic. not evil. 

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

The Qun come off more as a cult to me than a religion 

[OctagonalSquare]

I'd say they're Lawful Neutral, or perhaps even Lawful Good in a twisted way. The Qunari strive for perfection and maximum efficiency. Yes, they assign people to societal roles without any consideration for personal freedom of choice. Yes, they bind and enslave mages and use them as mere tools of war. Yes, they lobotomize rebels and turn th/m into mindless slaves. But they don't do it out of malice.

 

The Qunari do not say, "You are worthless scum, so you do physical labor like an animal," but rather, "You are strong and sturdy and work tirelessly. You were meant to do physical labor. It is your purpose. This is how you will best serve society." They're not evil; they're just collectivists and believe each person will benefit society best in one certain way.

[Lexxbomb]

mmm I've been wondering if the Qun is an analogy to any system in our own world...
Fascist?
Communist?
they most definitely are a Theocracy but so is all of thedas...