157 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

I'd call it hardlined lawful neutral, myself.

[Mistic]

Quite silly to call their philosophy evil. I see nothing inherently "evil" about it. It's just stupid.

 

Lawful Stupid it is then. There are alignments for everything.

[myahele]

I think Tevinter Society is Lawful Evil (not that everyone is bad, just the Govt is this alignment)

The Qun seems more lawful chaotic?

[SerCambria358]

Quite silly to call their philosophy evil. I see nothing inherently "evil" about it. It's just stupid.

 

Just like "society for mages ruled by mages" (aka Tevinter) is not inherently evil, just stupid.

Why stupid? They sacrifice their free will of choosing a life, in order to maintain a fully functioning society. You may not like it nor want to live in it but you cant deny its efficiency. Calling it stupid just seems like a comment out of spite rather than a legitimate criticism

[Sir DeLoria]

If the Qun didn't endorse sexism, brainwashing and de facto slavery (mages), it would be fine.

[Dabrikishaw]

The Qunari in Dragon Age are, as a whole, a highly Lawful Neutral society. 

[leaguer of one]

I think Tevinter Society is Lawful Evil (not that everyone is bad, just the Govt is this alignment)

The Qun seems more lawful chaotic?

More chaotically evil. It's a society the the ruling class is made up of the strongest which promote  having their ruling class and leader ship fight each other in duels and seek to becoming more powerful. That's the drow society in a nut shell.

[Lavaeolus]

D&D Evil is described as follows:

Evil characters and creatures debase or destroy innocent life, whether for fun or profit." [...] "Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.

Now, the Qun definitely oppresses people. They do get willing converts, and they're oppressing solely to improve the lot of those they oppress (from their point of view), but they've waged war and forcibly converted others. And while some mages, maybe even most, like Ketojan willingly submit so, you need only glance at the treatment of Saarebas to put a mark against them. Hurting and killing, however, are hardly embraced, the latter being a last resort. Buut... I don't know if I'd really describe them as "debasing" or destroying innocent life, but they still wage war, so I can easily tick these off if I want to, at least killing, solidly marking them as evil. Except...
 
D&D Good:

Good characters and creatures protect innocent life. [...] "Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.

I can still tick off a lot of stuff here as well. The Qunari do respect life, even if it may not be initially apparent, otherwise they wouldn't even bother try to convert people. You are worth converting, my friends! You are worth it. So, that's nice. In Sten's words, a life is the most valuable resource. I know their mages are seemingly a case study on un... dignifiedness, but the sacrifices they do make them incredibly respected in the average Qunari's eyes, and they're not nearly as disgraced as you might think (rude comments made by two Qunari, Arvaarad and Sten, aside).

When it comes to making personal sacrifices to help others, the Qun really encourages it! It just so happens helping others mainly involves converting them. But, as far as any society goes, most of them would probably really make sacrifices so you could see the Qun's righteousness. They're certainly disciplined enough to do so. They're all very altruistic, I'm just afraid you might not like the way they help you.
 
So In Conclusion
Alignment systems can go **** themselves. But I'm pretty sure they're Lawful!

[Willowhugger]

More chaotically evil. It's a society the the ruling class is made up of the strongest which promote  having their ruling class and leader ship fight each other in duels and seek to becoming more powerful. That's the drow society in a nut shell.

 

I felt like the comics implied Tevinter isn't nearly as evil as it appears from the perspective of, say, Fenris.

Just like David Gaider said Kirkwall wasn't QUITE the blood-mage ridden ****hole it appeared to be, just Hawke was always in it.

[NextArishok]

While it is clear many of the bas here will be making the trip to the Viddathlok, do not forget that it isn't required for a qunari to be the Arishok, Arigena, or Ariqun.  Any Qunari can fill any roll should they be fit.  IE a Dwarf, Elf, or Human could be Ariqun.

[Willowhugger]

For me, I think the Qun's biggest flaw is its strength.

People like Talis love the Qun because it makes them feel special, loved, and important.

 

People like many Tal'Vashoth hate it because it says they can only be what the Qun tells them.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Like with all religions it boils down to the alignments of the handful of leaders, they ''interpret'' the Qun and make the people do whatever they want.  That alone makes the leaders kind of lawful evil, IMO, because they eliminated whatever was before the Qun and they control a mindless mass of slaves like dictators. 

[Willowhugger]

Like with all religions it boils down to the alignments of the handful of leaders, they ''interpret'' the Qun and make the people do whatever they want.  That alone makes the leaders kind of lawful evil, IMO, because they eliminated whatever was before the Qun and they control a mindless mass of slaves like dictators. 

 

That's for any ideology.

[AshesEleven]

I know this is a little off-topic, but imagine a future game set in Tevinter (and surrounding countries) where the Qunari finally invade with all their might.

 

God how good would that game be.  

[Lavaeolus]

Like with all religions it boils down to the alignments of the handful of leaders, they ''interpret'' the Qun and make the people do whatever they want.  That alone makes the leaders kind of lawful evil, IMO, because they eliminated whatever was before the Qun and they control a mindless mass of slaves like dictators.

 
From what we've seen so far, the Qun's "leaders" are just as mindless, bit in want for a better word, as any of their followers. We've yet to see any corruption from an Ariqun, Arishok, or Ari-theotherone. How realistic that is for you is up for debate, but it probably helps that leadership split between three people.

[AshesEleven]

 

 

 

 

From what we've seen so far, the Qun's "leaders" are just as mindless, bit in want for a better word, as any of their followers. We've yet to see any corruption from an Ariqun, Arishok, or Ari-theotherone. How realistic that is for you is up for debate, but it probably helps that leadership split between three people.

 

 

We've only really seen the Arishok, but you're right.  The Qunari seem to really believe in their duty to the Qun, and personal interpretation seems to have no place.  The Arishok chose to stay in Kirkwall because it was his duty, not because he wished to.  Even the highest military leader must abide by the Demands of the Qun. 

[NextArishok]

We've only really seen the Arishok, but you're right.  The Qunari seem to really believe in their duty to the Qun, and personal interpretation seems to have no place.  The Arishok chose to stay in Kirkwall because it was his duty, not because he wished to.  Even the highest military leader must abide by the Demands of the Qun. 

"A simple act of greed has bound me.  We are all denied Par Vollen until I alone recover what was lost under my command! THAT is why this elf and her shadows are unimportant.  THAT is why I do not simply walk from this pustule of a city!  Fixing your mess is not the demand of the Qun! And you should all be GRATEFUL!"

 

[AshesEleven]

"A simple act of greed has bound me.  We are all denied Par Vollen until I alone recover what was lost under my command! THAT is why this elf and her shadows are unimportant.  THAT is why I do not simply walk from this pustule of a city!  Fixing your mess is not the demand of the Qun! And you should all be GRATEFUL!"

 

Arishok.

 

biowar plz why no romance arishok

[Navasha]

I admire the Qunari, much like I admire the single-minded effectiveness of an ant colony.    However, I am under no misconception about the 'society' they lead either.   For someone like myself who places much value on freedom and individualism, I can't think of a worse kind of society.   The fact that they seek to force all others to submit to their philosophy, be brainwashed, or die pretty much puts them in the realm of evil for me.    

[Lavaeolus]

For someone like myself who places much value on freedom and individualism, I can't think of a worse kind of society.

The exact same society, except they also wear smelly socks.

[OctagonalSquare]

If the Qun didn't endorse sexism, brainwashing and de facto slavery (mages), it would be fine.

If sexual dimorphism in qunari is similar to that in humans (males are typically stronger than females), then men need to be assigned to do physical labor and military jobs in order for society to function at maximum efficiency. With most/all of the men doing those jobs, women fill in the rest.

[NextArishok]

If this thread keeps growing...it will be interesting to come back after DA:I comes out and everyone visits there.   That's the first place I'm going.

[Giant ambush beetle]

 
From what we've seen so far, the Qun's "leaders" are just as mindless, bit in want for a better word, as any of their followers. We've yet to see any corruption from an Ariqun, Arishok, or Ari-theotherone. How realistic that is for you is up for debate, but it probably helps that leadership split between three people.

The politicians of my country always tell me that everything they do is for the greater good, which of course couldn't be farther from the truth. I doubt the three leaders of the Qun are saints or true believers, the power surely has corrupted them down to the core, like it would corrupt any sane and sentient being.

 

IMO the Qun is not much different than any other of the factions in Thedas, they're just more aggressive. 

[Lavaeolus]

The Arishok certainly wasn't corrupted. A bit cranky from dealing with Kirkwallians (who wouldn't be?), but not corrupt from power.