31 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadooow]

I have an idea about a PvP arena style of module which might be popular and playable, especially because it involves bots (computer driven enemies). I think NWN2 could be this time better platform for this style of module but I need to know if NWN2 allows features I need. Can you guys tell me whats possible and not? I will want to run it as PW on windows with NWNX4, But I need this:

 

- area instancing (ability to create, copy and delete given area)

- possession (ability for PC to possess any creature (polymorph is not an option for me because I need to control feats/abilities with this)

- ability to create a new combat feats like knockdown/disarm

- jumping animation (need custom jumping animation, not workaround with EffectAppear/EffectDissapear - it needs to be fast, like Barbarian in diablo2)

- ability to add custom character animations for any creature model (not only humanoids I mean)

- ability to "push" / "slide" a creature (ie. knockback ability in diablo2)

- swift gameplay on very big exterior map, i dont care about loading time though (I am interested in PvP, so tell me also any issues regarding that)

[BartjeD]

All the things on your list are possible.

 

I have seen custom combat feats myself so I know that for a fact (Lunge, Low Blow etc.). You can also modify the sneak attack range and weapon range. I have not heard of any of these things in NWN1 so I assume they are new. [Edit] Also charge and shield bashing.

 

Area instancing is fully supported. A couple of persistent worlds use it extensively, see Trinity for example.

 

Jumping, you can use the RWS levitation animations. There might also be a jumping package. I don't know. You could conceivably do some calculations on the Z axis to determine if a player would make it from his original location or not, if its too far up / or away.

 

You can make as many custom animations as you want if you know how to do it. I've never looked at it but there are plugins on the vault for using Gmax I think. Including recent editions of that program. But I leave the details of this to people with more knowledge about it.

 

Pushing sliding like in the Baldur's Gate games (dragons) is fully scriptable. I've seen it done well in several modules and persistent worlds. Kamal also made a sliding mini-game, where you slide down a mountain / hill.

 

I don't know exactly what you mean by swift gameplay and posession.

 

You can make creatures possessable by adding them to the party, if that's what you mean. NWN1 didn't support parties, so that's new in NWN2. There is a script function to mark creatures as not possesable / possesable.

 

Swift gameplay, I've never had issues with big exterior maps. I would answer that it depends on the competence of whoever makes the exterior area. Because if you add a lot of stuff that isn't needed then it's going to take a toll. But that's also the case with NWN1 areas if you use trillions of placeables. So I imagine that's easy to get a grip on for people who developed for NWN1.

 

There aren't any issues with PvP, though I'd recommend using the KEMO suite or your own GUI code to tailor it to your world. Like you can modify the context menu so that it sets people hostile more easily. Or you can do it via factions / battlefields, or arena type PvP. 

There are also tricks you can use to support many more NPCs in your battles without causing lag, so you could have pretty big battles I think. 

[kamal_]

Well, we have jumping, complete with skill based results, dynamic calculation of destination validity (no jumping over giant walls and such) , and dynamic calculation of falling damaged based on the actual topography of the map. Jumping can be either "direction player is facing" or jump towards specified destination.

You can push/slide/change orientation of players. You can write scripts to do this however you want, nwn2 supports vectors.

Both of these may not work like you want, as neither nwn1 nor 2 were made with things like that in mind.

I dont know the answer on posession.

You can also add any feats and animations you feel like.

"Swift gameplay" is subjective. Nwn2 supports 32x32 interior and exterior maps. Generally not recommended for performance reasons, but you can.

[Shadooow]

re possession, I need to "become an chosen NPC" same as dungeon master can contol and possess creatures (NWN1 allows this with engine modifications btw)

 

re swift gameplay, in NWN1 too many players at same spot makes lags and I expect to have like 30 creatures arounds all of them, Ive heard there were issues with PvP in past when NWN2 started, just want to make sure they have been all patched already

[Psionic-Entity]

I have an idea about a PvP arena style of module which might be popular and playable, especially because it involves bots (computer driven enemies). I think NWN2 could be this time better platform for this style of module but I need to know if NWN2 allows features I need. Can you guys tell me whats possible and not? I will want to run it as PW on windows with NWNX4, But I need this:

 

- area instancing (ability to create, copy and delete given area)

- possession (ability for PC to possess any creature (polymorph is not an option for me because I need to control feats/abilities with this)

- ability to create a new combat feats like knockdown/disarm

- jumping animation (need custom jumping animation, not workaround with EffectAppear/EffectDissapear - it needs to be fast, like Barbarian in diablo2)

- ability to add custom character animations for any creature model (not only humanoids I mean)

- ability to "push" / "slide" a creature (ie. knockback ability in diablo2)

- swift gameplay on very big exterior map, i dont care about loading time though (I am interested in PvP, so tell me also any issues regarding that)

 

- Area instancing is possible but you need to build a robust area recycling system because instances cannot be deleted.

- Possession isn't going to work the way you want it to, sounds like you'd be better off making a system that rebuilds your character via script if you want to be able to hop in to a new body whenever.

- You can make whatever feats you want but they won't be activated in the same way (ie. as replacing attacks) because that part of the game is hardcoded. New active feats can either be spells or instant script calls.

- AFAIK nobody has made a jumping animation.

- If you want to make the animations you can, but it's extremely time consuming and relies on third party software.

- Pushing and sliding in a smooth manner only works in single player. If you want it in multiplayer you can either jump people (if you try to do this at 60hz or whatever it gets choppy) or you can try to find a workaround that locks their animation and forces a move command. Neither will be very elegant but when I had pushing in my PW players didn't seem to mind the hops.

- All depends on player and server hardware.

[Tchos]

Any creature added to the party as a full companion (not marked as a henchman) can be fully possessed by the player, with full access to feats, inventory, spells, movement, and action queues, by default.  When you click on the companion, you are the companion, exactly like in the Infinity Engine games.  This is how the normal companions are done in any campaign and player-made module.

 

Marshall's NWN2 Legends plugins make instancing easy.

 

Custom creature animation can be made using 3ds Max.  There's someone on the Nexus making new character animation now by request.

[rjshae]

re swift gameplay, in NWN1 too many players at same spot makes lags and I expect to have like 30 creatures arounds all of them, Ive heard there were issues with PvP in past when NWN2 started, just want to make sure they have been all patched already

 

It depends on factors like the amount of AI scripting being executed and the number and types of visual effects that are running.

[kamal_]

Ultimately it really sounds like you need to mod Diablo or something to get what you want, as action rpgs are built around stuff like this.

[Shadooow]

- Area instancing is possible but you need to build a robust area recycling system because instances cannot be deleted.

- Possession isn't going to work the way you want it to, sounds like you'd be better off making a system that rebuilds your character via script if you want to be able to hop in to a new body whenever.

- You can make whatever feats you want but they won't be activated in the same way (ie. as replacing attacks) because that part of the game is hardcoded. New active feats can either be spells or instant script calls.

- AFAIK nobody has made a jumping animation.

- If you want to make the animations you can, but it's extremely time consuming and relies on third party software.

- Pushing and sliding in a smooth manner only works in single player. If you want it in multiplayer you can either jump people (if you try to do this at 60hz or whatever it gets choppy) or you can try to find a workaround that locks their animation and forces a move command. Neither will be very elegant but when I had pushing in my PW players didn't seem to mind the hops.

- All depends on player and server hardware.

thanks for straight answer without trying to prove that NWN2 is better in all of this than NWN1, given your response it looks that none of this is handled better than in NWN1 then

[Shadooow]

Ultimately it really sounds like you need to mod Diablo or something to get what you want, as action rpgs are built around stuff like this.

yea, but these games doesnt have anything even closer to toolset, I was modding diablo2 three years before I jumped to NWN so...

 

I can probably do this kind of PvP arena without most of these features and just use various workarounds, I know how to workaround or simulate all of this in NWN1, just thought NWN2 might offer this kind of functionalities naturally.

[BartjeD]

Test it yourself. 

 

You can read in my first post the possession works fine via NPC companions. You can make any NPC a companion.

As for feats, I've told you about feats like Charge, Low Blow and Shield Bashing. Those are active combat feats and combat modes that I've seen playing on BGTSCC. 

I've also seen pushing / sliding done there. They have Sword Spiders that use it to 'dance / slide' forward in a dancing kind of motion. Like Sword Spiders are described in PnP. (Its really cool)

And I told you there's a persistent world built around the idea of area instancing: Trinity. If it works there, persistently, then surely it could work for you too.  You present yourself as a capable developer afterall.

 

I get the impression that you are settling for the answer that best fits your preconceived notion about NWN2's abilities, and not what the actual custom content scene from the game is telling you about it. 

 

I've never heard of psionic-entity developing something for NWN2. I have on the other heard and read about many projects released by Kamal, rjshae, and Tchos. So why are you choosing to believe one person over a group of other people telling you otherwise? It defeats the point of asking  about it in this forum so I'm getting a childish impression about you, Shaadow. I don't believe that you are serious in this topic.

[Psionic-Entity]

Test it yourself. 

 

You can read in my first post the possession works fine via NPC companions. You can make any NPC a companion.

As for feats, I've told you about feats like Charge, Low Blow and Shield Bashing. Those are active combat feats and combat modes that I've seen playing on BGTSCC. 

I've also seen pushing / sliding done there. 

And I told you there's a persistent world built around the idea of area instancing: Trinity. 

 

I get the impression that you are settling for the answer that best fits your preconceived notion about NWN2's abilities, and not what the actual custom content scene is telling you about it. 

 

I've never heard of psionic entity developing something for NWN2, for example. I have on the other heard and read about many projects released by Kamal, rjshae, and Tchos. So why are you choosing to believe one person over a group of other people? I'm getting a childish impression about you Shaadow. 

 

None of what I posted is incorrect. The only thing that might be is possession but I'm assuming he's looking for being able to hop in to an NPC's body rather than having a party in which you control every member. It's pretty silly that he's choosing to make this a NWN1 vs NWN2 thing when neither engine is suitable for what he wants, but you don't have to attack me (in ignorance, it seems) to get that point across.

[Tchos]

No, he said he wants the creature to act as a "chosen PC", which I interpret to mean a PC that the player has selected, and compared it to the DM functions in NWN1.  Companions act exactly like that.  Then again, I described exactly how they act and compared them to a well-known example, which he ignored, so who knows.

 

Judging from the response, I don't believe he's serious either, but as far as the instanced areas go, he doesn't even need to try them out.  He could just watch Marshall's in-depth videos on how to use them and demonstrations of how they work.

[Tchos]

Also, it would be a trivial task to create a script that allows the player to target any creature and possess them, hopping into their bodies using the same kind of scripts as the party system.

[kamal_]

Kamal also made a sliding mini-game, where you slide down a mountain / hill.

 

Can't take credit for that. Snow sledding was Wizard's Apprentice 2 by Matthew Rieder.

[kamal_]

There are also tricks you can use to support many more NPCs in your battles without causing lag, so you could have pretty big battles I think. 

Pain's CSL ai does at least a hundred a side. The test case was illithids versus solars, so special abilities flying everywhere. No lag.

[Shadooow]

I've never heard of psionic-entity developing something for NWN2. I have on the other heard and read about many projects released by Kamal, rjshae, and Tchos. So why are you choosing to believe one person over a group of other people telling you otherwise? It defeats the point of asking  about it in this forum so I'm getting a childish impression about you, Shaadow. I don't believe that you are serious in this topic.

Because that person provided more technical informations and the answer looks to me more serious as if this guy has experience with modding these things. You only seen this, that doesnt mean anything. Ive seen all of this in NWN1 as well but since I understand the mechanis behind, its not what I want and its a reason why I came here to NWN2 ask if the situation is better there. And there is also a quetion if the systems youve seen on the BG PW are public. I fear there is same no-share policy as in NWN1...

 

I ignored the answer with companions because I thought its not what I want, but maybe it is? I want to make an placeable that will turn PC for a certain ammount of time into different character (lvl 20, preselected feats/spells). I certainly dont want to have another guy in party that PC can control, I want the PC to become something else. But if its possible to remove the PCs own character from party and automatically make him to control new companion (which then become the only one in party so PC wont see any of this) then its fine.

[Psionic-Entity]

Also, it would be a trivial task to create a script that allows the player to target any creature and possess them, hopping into their bodies using the same kind of scripts as the party system.

That really depends on what you want to happen to the main PC. You could write a script to add the target, possess it, disable AI on the player's main PC and make it cutscene invisible, but if you wanted to get rid of their ability to swap back in to their main body you'd have to hack a lot of UI, possibly in a way that destroys other game functions, or you'd have to hook a script on returning to the original form and either use that to call a quits on the summoned PC or force a return.

 

If (by chance) the OP intends to make this a kind of "try this build out for a bit" thing then you could hack it out. If it's more of an "enter a combat round as this build" then it's not going to be so easy.

[Tchos]

I ignored the answer with companions because I thought its not what I want, but maybe it is? I want to make an placeable that will turn PC for a certain ammount of time into different character (lvl 20, preselected feats/spells). I certainly dont want to have another guy in party that PC can control, I want the PC to become something else. But if its possible to remove the PCs own character from party and automatically make him to control new companion (which then become the only one in party so PC wont see any of this) then its fine.

 

That is not at all what you described, and you did not provide such information.  If you're serious about your questions, then you should present them in detail in your first post in the future.

 

On this topic, being that I have no interest in PWs or PVP of any kind, I will defer to any experts on those subjects who happen to be around.

 

I will say that on the topic of instances, which has yet to be acknowledged, that Marshall's plugins are free for anyone to use, and are extremely well-documented.  When I refer someone to where the information is, I don't expect to need to repeat it myself.

[Shadooow]

That is not at all what you described, and you did not provide such information.  If you're serious about your questions, then you should present them in detail in your first post in the future.

 

On this topic, being that I have no interest in PWs or PVP of any kind, I will defer to any experts on those subjects who happen to be around.

 

I will say that on the topic of instances, which has yet to be acknowledged, that Marshall's plugins are free for anyone to use, and are extremely well-documented.  When I refer someone to where the information is, I don't expect to need to repeat it myself.

sorry, I thought its self-exemplatory, probably because Im NWN1 modder where is no party control so...

[BartjeD]

As far as companions go, this was actually pioneered in Dark Waters where the author (SunJammer I think) made it so that you couldn't switch back to your main PC, and the same with savegames because that was initially an issue with that system.

 

The solutions are there. And they're quite old. I think Dark Waters was released in 2011?

 

The point of my previous reply was that you (Shadow) are apparanlty picking and choosing who to believe, and completely ignoring others who have a very public and expansive modding history for NWN2. I told you that it makes no sense to ignore such people if you're genuine about examining NWN2, especially when they direct you to solutions such as Kamal, Tchos and myself have done. It feels very impolite when someone does that.

[Edit] But I guess given your reaction in the general section topic that this is not on purpose. So I'll leave it at that.

[Tchos]

Dark Waters is made by Adam Miller, and you're right, there are numerous times in that campaign that the main character is changed to someone else, and you play as that other (more powerful) person.  It's part of the plot showing that the main PC is the reincarnation of someone in the past.

[Shadooow]

Is there anything like NWN Lexicon for NWN1? I would like to browse read learn all scripting functions that I dont have access yet because of missing expansions.

 

Also, im interested in projectiles, I vaguely remember from campaign but I suppose they are auto targetted like in NWN, mean if I cast a spell with projectile on very fast moving character the projectile travel behind him and change direction right? Is it possible to make a projectile which will have a straight path in certain direction and damage anything in its path? Or a projectile that will bounce amongst  multiple targets? Note: I know how to workaround this is NWN via scripting (getFirst/NextInShape with fast recursive) but again I am asking whether NWN2 can do this better, more naturally, easier and mainly accurate. I want to make a spell which will make a projectile traveling straight path in certain direction across whole map until a creature or map edge is hit when the projectile explode into fireball effect.

[Tchos]

Pain of Dungeon Eternal's Doxygen reference site (listed in his script pack) sounds like the sort of thing you're talking about, but it's offline.  I think I've heard of others, but I don't know them.

 

Bob Hall's toolset guide includes a reference document in PDF form of the functions.

[Tchos]

When browsing the functions and their parameters and notes or the global variables using the script assist tab in the toolset, you can also use EC's Super Include to browse all of the custom functions that are tucked away in the stock include files, and jump directly to whatever file they happen to be in by right-clicking on them.