820 réponses à ce sujet

[RealityMachina]

My theory is it is because of the tactical view on consoles, it is harder to user tactical controls if you have the radial menu as well with a bunch of skills

Compared to PC with KB/M? All right, I guess I could see that.

 

Compared to how DA:O/DA2 did it on consoles with the radial menu only? (quoting this again because again, this was seen as perfectly a-ok for console players by Bioware and EA for the first two games)

 

 

Select your current character's action from the radial menu (not from the quick mapped buttons). Press X to begin the action (which will also close the radial menu). Immediately press L1 or R1 to switch characters, and R2 to bring up the radial menu again. Repeat the process to select that character's action. If you're quick enough about re-pausing the game with the radial menu, this comes out almost the same as queuing up actions for all of your characters at once.

 

I have my doubts.

[aaarcher86]

I watched 20 seconds of this video, but it shows the radial menu being used. There is nothing about tactical view that would change the difficulty of this.

[viciouswhisper]

I watched 20 seconds of this video, but it shows the radial menu being used. There is nothing about tactical view that would change the difficulty of this.

doing the radial menu was easy it paused the game it was easy to navigate there werent any issues

[rupok93]

What's different? Why does looking down on the characters while paused change anything in the difficulty of using the radial menu?

 

Because you you go to a character, click a button and then go to the place you want them to be and then make them do something, then go to another character, repeat. In previous games, you took control of character, walked him some place, did an action.

 

So do you see why tactical mode may already require some time to use with a controller? They probably thought limiting it to 8 slots on would allow it to be more fluid and then they brought this limit to pc as well for "parity".

 

its just a theory but I think its plausible that they didn't want tactical view to take so many inputs for a few actions.

[aaarcher86]

doing the radial menu was easy it paused the game it was easy to navigate there werent any issues

Exactly.

[durasteel]

you can hook a keyboard up to a console though which no one takes advantage of which sucks because give the option "do you have a keyboard?" or something like that

You can hook up a keyboard to an X Box, but you cannot use it to control a game. Microsoft wants to make sure that all X Box games stick to controller input.

 

I almost bought a 360, but when I discovered how limited my ability to use it would be--by design--I quickly changed my mind.

[aaarcher86]

Because you you go to a character, click a button and then go to the place you want them to be and then make them do something, then go to another character, repeat. In previous games, you took control of character, walked him some place, did an action.
 
So do you see why tactical mode may already require some time to use with a controller? They probably thought limiting it to 8 slots on would allow it to be more fluid and then they brought this limit to pc as well for "parity".

You can switch between characters when the radial menu is open. Play is paused when it's open. You're acting like it's all in real time while the radial menu is in use, and it's not. It's paused exactly like tactical. You can flip to another character (while it's open and paused). The only difference is play would start once you chose something. There's no reason they couldn't just keep gameplay paused in tactical until you turn real time back on.

[Pateu]

Because the previous games were totally not on the previous consoles with ways to access more than the hotkeyed abilities.

 

 

 

Nope. No way. No siree.

 

Which proves my point that the gaming industry gets more and more dumbed down.

[viciouswhisper]

will there never be peace between the pc master race and the console players? can we start a peace treaty?

[RealityMachina]

Because you you go to a character, click a button and then go to the place you want them to be and then make them do something, then go to another character, repeat. In previous games, you took control of character, walked him some place, did an action.

 

So do you see why tactical mode may already require some time to use with a controller?

...

 

You, you do realize it takes more time to use the tactical view and plan out a fight on PC compared to the more off-the-cuff fights with over the shoulder mode, right?

 

That's, that's kinda the whole freakin' difference between them. One is meant for gamers who are totally ok with charging in (or just making tactics ahead of time without wanting to have to plan out every fight), the other is meant for people who want to take their time to properly plan out a fight and willing to have battles take a while in exchange for being able to react very well to changes on the battlefield.

[EnduinRaylene]

Because you you go to a character, click a button and then go to the place you want them to be and then make them do something, then go to another character, repeat. In previous games, you took control of character, walked him some place, did an action.

 

So do you see why tactical mode may already require some time to use with a controller? They probably thought limiting it to 8 slots on would allow it to be more fluid and then they brought this limit to pc as well for "parity".

 

its just a theory but I think its plausible that they didn't want tactical view to take so many inputs for a few actions.

This is based on absolutely nothing but pure speculation without any kind of evidence at all to support it.

 

Nothing about the radial wheel makes the use of tactical mode harder. Especially because the radial wheel still exists in DAI. If some people didn't like using because they found it too cumbersome, they could just not use it. Your entire reasoning is based off a story you created in your head about how you think BioWare would act.

[Rawgrim]

will there never be peace between the pc master race and the console players? can we start a peace treaty?

 

I play on PC and on my Xbox360 I am the personification of peace.

[durasteel]

My theory is it is because of the tactical view on consoles, it is harder to user tactical controls if you have the radial menu as well with a bunch of skills, thats why they limited it to the shortcuts on and its why we only have 8 abilities to use.

 

My theory is that they wanted to enable hyperkinetic combat without any pauses, so they remapped the controller scheme to eliminate the need to go to the radial menu in combat.

 

Yes, they also enabled tactical view pause and play combat. They did both.

[durasteel]

will there never be peace between the pc master race and the console players? can we start a peace treaty?

 

When all the Halo games are released for Windows...

[viciouswhisper]

When all the Halo games are released for Windows...

lol yeah f*** 200 ability slots lets get halo

[Pateu]

will there never be peace between the pc master race and the console players? can we start a peace treaty?

 

It's not about a PC - console war.

 

PC gamers are bitter because their games lose quality due to the console's limitations.

 

And they're right. The PC games suffer from diminished graphics and features because most devs develop games with the idea that they will also sell them on consoles.

[ClassyUnicorn]

Because you you go to a character, click a button and then go to the place you want them to be and then make them do something, then go to another character, repeat.

You could already do that in DA2 on console. All tactical mode has changed is the fact you no longer have to open the radial menu to pause and the camera is detached from the character without having to select the move to point command first.

[EnduinRaylene]

My theory is that they wanted to enable hyperkinetic combat without any pauses, so they remapped the controller scheme to eliminate the need to go to the radial menu in combat.

 

Yes, they also enabled tactical view pause and play combat. They did both.

Which is also pure speculation based on nothing but a story you concocted in your head. 

 

The radial menu still exists, you can bring it up in tactical mode with the camera pulled way back, we've seen it. In fact console players will still have to use it a good deal in order to use health or stamina/lyrium potions along with any other consumable during combat since there is not other shortcut on the controller to do so. So the radial menu will still be a normal part and staple of their game. 

 

BioWare decided to limit the number of usable abilities as a design choice, the exact number very well could be a result of console control limitations, but there is no other credible evidence to say that the initial decision and design choice was a result of consoles.

[viciouswhisper]

heres the end of the discussion - try it out and if you dont like it after that then complain

[durasteel]

Which is also pure speculation based on nothing but a story you concocted in your head. 

 

The radial menu still exists, you can bring it up in tactical mode with the camera pulled way back, we've seen it. In fact console players will still have to use it a good deal in order to use health or stamina/lyrium potions along with any other consumable during combat since there is not other shortcut on the controller to do so. So the radial menu will still be a normal part and staple of their game. 

 

BioWare decided to limit the number of usable abilities as a design choice, the exact number very well could be a result of console control limitations, but there is no other credible evidence to say that the initial decision and design choice was a result of consoles.

 

Did you miss the part where you can't spam potions any more?

 

Your inability to distinguish between inference, deduction, and speculation is a burden to this discussion. 

[durasteel]

heres the end of the discussion - try it out and if you dont like it after that then complain

 

You don't get to end the discussion for the rest of us, dude.

[viciouswhisper]

You don't get to end the discussion for the rest of us, dude.

but does it really need to continue? its just repeating the same thing over and over some people dont care some people hate it

[EnduinRaylene]

Did you miss the part where you can't spam potions any more?

 

Your inability to distinguish between inference, deduction, and speculation is a burden to this discussion. 

That has nothing to do with the discussion on hand and in no way changes the fact that players will be using the radial menu often throughout combat because it also houses bombs and poisons along with companion commands like halt and defend. Even if they can only carry 8 health potions at a time doesn't mean they'll never use it, it simply means they'll have to monitor their use more carefully.

[durasteel]

That has nothing to do with the discussion on hand and in no way changes the fact that players will be using the radial menu often throughout combat because it also houses bombs and poisons along with companion commands like halt and defend. Even if they can only carry 8 health potions at a time doesn't mean they'll never use it, it simply means they'll have to monitor their use more carefully.

 

There will be a lot of people who assign bombs and poison to their minions in tactics, never use companion commands, and run around in combat without ever pausing or using the radial menu unless they're about to die. And BioWare wanted to make sure that was fully supported. It's not complicated.

[Pateu]

BioWare decided to limit the number of usable abilities as a design choice, the exact number very well could be a result of console control limitations, but there is no other credible evidence to say that the initial decision and design choice was a result of consoles.

 

Except, you know.

 

The dumbing down of PC games in the past 10 years because of consoles.

 

It happened with Bioware in Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2, as well.

 

So I've every reason in the world to believe this is because of consoles.