Aller au contenu

Photo

First Look at the PC UI for DAI - Take II


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
820 réponses à ce sujet

#601
rupok93

rupok93
  • Members
  • 351 messages

Who said you would keep the same abilities once realizing the area you're in requires a different approach?

 

What's wrong with getting through a tough fight... taking a moment to reassess your abilities, making some adjustments and continuing on...?

 

Cause it slows the flow of the game, many times you might just die if you faced something and didn't have the right abilities and then have to reload, go into menus,etc

 

I find that kind of thing extremely boring, i would rather find out what works during the actual combat and not after and before it. The less time spent in menus the better.



#602
EnduinRaylene

EnduinRaylene
  • Members
  • 284 messages

How else are we supposed to look at it, since it very literally is reductive?

reductive

What part of that doesn't really fit the scenario? Did they not remove lots of options from combat, compared to their previous offerings? Yes, they did. Isn't this going to make dealing with combat simpler? I mean, you'll have less buttons to keep track of, so I'm thinking it will. So how dare we look at it exactly as it's presented, we should be wearing our rose colored glasses too.

The combat is only reductive because your argument and stance on the subject is reductive. You're taking a complex system that is developed and informed by many different aspects of the game and acting as if the limit on hotkey abilities is the only thing that matters and thus it's limitation ruins the game. That's the definition of reductive, presenting a situation in it's most basic and overly simple parts until the argument loses almost all meaning. You're missing the forest for the trees.

 

I've already given a clear example of how the reduction of combos from DAO to DA2 actually resulted in more choice and variety in combat, whether you enjoyed that change is a completely different story altogether as it is a subjective one, not objective. Another would be ME1 to ME2 where they originally tested this out by retooling the whole powers system in ME2, reducing the overall number of powers and skill the player could invest in, but added depth by giving each class a more clear and unique role in combat, as well as making those abilities they did have more versatile and useful like creating warp bombs. Further expanding on that in ME3 when they introduced power combos which added a whole suite of combos across the tech and biotic branches.

 

Another avenue that hasn't been touched on as far I've read is the fact that the crafting system now in DAI is by all accounts quite deep, especially compared to past games. We are going to have a great deal of control of over not only the visual aspects of our weapons and armors, but all their bonuses and powerups they have by way of the materials we use when creating the various parts of the weapon, like the blade, hilt and pommel. This is in addition to the already well established system of enchantments that we can place on weapons and armor. This will be yet another aspect that will inform the rest of the combat and something players will have to take into consideration when outfitting their party and preparing for battle. Having the good bonuses on your equipment could mean boosting the effectiveness of your abilities so that you take that enemy out in 3 hits instead of 5, you tank will be able to aggro and hold out against 5 enemies instead 4. These things matter and affect combat, your strategies and how plan out your tactics in combat based on the skills and abilities of your party. The game isn't just some puzzle where you match X ability to Y enemy and that's all there is.

 

Your entire argument is based solely on the number of available abilities and how many can be in the hotbar at one time, which is a very important aspect of combat, but far from the only one. 

 

I think even with 8 abilities they can just fix the whole mess by allowing us to change the 8 during combat as well. Kind of keeps both sides of the argument happy.

 

If this really is a design choice, which is very much appears to be, then that is in no way a fix, but would likely throw off the entire combat system. It's highly unlikely they simply just capped the number of abilities you can use and that's it with not other changes to how the combat operates and is designed. More likely the 8 ability limit informs all aspects of combat, like ability powers and progression, class progression, enemy and encounter design, weapon bonuses and so on.



#603
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

Really? I never really noticed, and none of the forums I visited ever brought any of this stuff up for BG. In NWN I played Bards, mostly, with some random nonsense thrown in, such as Druid Arcane Archers, but I never noticed mages being ridiculously op in NWN, and in DAO, of course they were overpowered, according to the people that couldn't/wouldn't play them. I don't know about you, but I got my highest damage, and the achievement for it, on an Archer in DA O. Maybe I was just OP?

Apparently, however, what you're saying is that BioWare doesn't know how to balance the games anyway. So my question is, why even bother to try, if they're not going to be able to pull it off, and what does that have to do with how many skills are on the bar? Please leave off with balance, since as we can see, balance has nothing to do with it.


BG1-2 and NWN were both D&D. There is simply no debtate on whether mages were OP in 2e and 3e. Early on mages were weaker, but by level 6-7 the power curve purely favours mages.

My phone can't copy the links but the internet is literally full of these threads. Just google "Mages OP BG2" and you will get hundreds.

#604
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

What actually can make the fights more challenging is, the cap on how many abilities you have equipped at once may prevent the characters(s) from running around with large amount of both damage dealing and crowd control abilities at the same time, which would effectively allow them to side-step limits set by skill cooldowns. Instead of just stunning/freezing/knocking down everything the player may be forced to actually choose which targets they want to temporarily take out of the fight, as well as when to do it. This can also make positioning (choke points etc) matter, like they were trying to show in one of the gameplay videos. Something which, let be honest, there was little to no reason to bother with in the previous installments.

a

I disagree with that last point, but perhaps that was because I played with some very atypical parties (e.g. 1 rogue and 3 mages in DA2).

#605
mugwuffin1986

mugwuffin1986
  • Members
  • 219 messages

Cause it slows the flow of the game, many times you might just die if you faced something and didn't have the right abilities and then have to reload, go into menus,etc

 

I find that kind of thing extremely boring, i would rather find out what works during the actual combat and not after and before it. The less time spent in menus the better.

 

You realize you're talking about slowing the pace of a game where you'll be in a dialogue scene every 15 minutes, right?



#606
rupok93

rupok93
  • Members
  • 351 messages

You realize you're talking about slowing the pace of a game where you'll be in a dialogue scene every 15 minutes, right?

Thats actually a fun part of the game, going through menus constantly is not fun to me.


  • durasteel et Burricho aiment ceci

#607
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

I'm hoping we can use non-combat stealth to scout ahead and ambush the enemies.

If we get to initiate combat, we should be able to execute a battle plan that wipes everyone out without the need to react to anything new, and thus we'd be guaranteed to have the right abilities chosen.

This is largely how DAO combat worked, I found. While I did have access to all of my abilities, I almost always had a battleplan that used just some of them, and then the battle was over.

But this usually required the use of nnon-combat stealth. We don't yet know if Inquisition even has in-combat stealth, or if it's limited to pre-set uses like in MotA (that would be awful).


DAO though had very simple loadloads that could clear and encounter. You didn't need 8 abilities to TPK the enemy.

#608
Jimbo_Gee79

Jimbo_Gee79
  • Members
  • 178 messages

Cause it slows the flow of the game, many times you might just die if you faced something and didn't have the right abilities and then have to reload, go into menus,etc

 

I find that kind of thing extremely boring, i would rather find out what works during the actual combat and not after and before it. The less time spent in menus the better.

 

It's funny I watched the demo multiple times and only having 8 abilities didnt seem to slow down the person playing it. Just another thought.


  • Cassandra Saturn et aaarcher86 aiment ceci

#609
Bizantura

Bizantura
  • Members
  • 991 messages

The lowest common denominator is what multinationals strive for.  It gives the most sales.  It is fatal for creativity but that part seems only to aply to sales techniques where creativity is abound and stuningly creative advertising is to be seen and experienced.  Unfortunately that is been Bioware's selling price to EA and it shows thru there current games.  I think it is that why so many long standing Bioware gamers have more misgivings towards todays games.  It must be hard for creative personalities not working in advertisment!!


  • Ieolus aime ceci

#610
Wulfram

Wulfram
  • Members
  • 18 950 messages

It's funny I watched the demo multiple times and only having 8 abilities didnt seem to slow down the person playing it. Just another thought.

 

Well, I don't think they were playing at high levels, so they probably didn't have any surplus abilities to swap.  And probably the character was probably set up for that section of the game anyway.

 

But if it's achieving what's apparently the intended purpose, it should slow down the game at least a bit.  If we can just plough through everything with the same loadout, where's the extra "planning ahead and making tactical decisions"?



#611
DarthLaxian

DarthLaxian
  • Members
  • 2 040 messages

a

I disagree with that last point, but perhaps that was because I played with some very atypical parties (e.g. 1 rogue and 3 mages in DA2).

 

:) another one (I did the same)

 

I only used Miss Boring (Aveline...she was hillarious - but still pretty boring) when I really needed to (High Dragon (!) for example)

 

greetings LAX



#612
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

Well, I don't think they were playing at high levels, so they probably didn't have any surplus abilities to swap. And probably the character was probably set up for that section of the game anyway.

But if it's achieving what's apparently the intended purpose, it should slow down the game at least a bit. If we can just plough through everything with the same loadout, where's the extra "planning ahead and making tactical decisions"?


Presumably the design is so that on easy we can faceroll everything but hard and nightmare will be challenging. Or maybe just nightmare if this is like DAO and DA2.

#613
robertthebard

robertthebard
  • Members
  • 6 108 messages

It's funny I watched the demo multiple times and only having 8 abilities didnt seem to slow down the person playing it. Just another thought.


Oh, you mean you watched the video of the one fight, where they preloaded all the right abilities to put on a show, irrespective of what level they were? Gee, I hope we're able to stack level 27 abilities on our level 9 toons...

#614
LexXxich

LexXxich
  • Members
  • 954 messages

How about this? Remove the hard UI restriction and let people who want to be restricted restrict themselves.

Also, it seems I'll have to repost that, because many people here seem to argue based on mistaken premises.

 THERE HAVE BEEN A GRAVE MISUNDERSTANDING. Players won't be changing skills on hotbar to suit opponents. 8 abilities restriction is not a strategic layer neither it adds anything to tactical layer. Because Bioware, in it's infinite wisdom, left level-up process and ability system almost intact from DA2, even slashing it more. Your characters will not have enough abilities fast enough so that this restriction makes you choose abilities best suited to situation. You are going to spend the majority of the game with less or slightly more than 8 abilities, making strategic and tactical goals of this "innovation" irrelevant. And when you do get more than 8, it's going to be a game of "what couple of actives is useless enough to keep off my bar?" instead of "I'll make this deck to fight Venatori, and this one to fight Templars". This argument being pro-restriction is thus moot.

 Each of your characters already makes choices about which abilities to bring to combat, to benefit the party. Right at level-up. Your character is, for lack of better term, a Sorcerer. Trying to make Sorcerers play like Wizards is a bad design decision.


  • Ieolus aime ceci

#615
Hrungr

Hrungr
  • Members
  • 18 256 messages

Better quality.

10560390_980886638603702_156990610622470

Source



#616
Degenerate Rakia Time

Degenerate Rakia Time
  • Banned
  • 5 073 messages

 

Better quality.

10560390_980886638603702_156990610622470

Source

 

random thought - moving the companion order buttons to under their icons could open space for 4 more abilities



#617
Wulfram

Wulfram
  • Members
  • 18 950 messages

I really do think that UI is way bigger than it needs to be.  Unless it's for a lower resolution screen, but the screenshot appears to be at 1920 x 1080?

 

edit:  Also, since we can't have more than 8 abilities, it's a shame we couldn't bind some abilities of other characters to the quickbar for ease of access



#618
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

Oh, you mean you watched the video of the one fight, where they preloaded all the right abilities to put on a show, irrespective of what level they were? Gee, I hope we're able to stack level 27 abilities on our level 9 toons...

The video I watched had them fight bears, templars, mages and a dragon all in one go and without ability swap. If nothing else this shows that no, at least at some difficulty levels you don't need to swap abilities before every fight like some predict here.

#619
Degenerate Rakia Time

Degenerate Rakia Time
  • Banned
  • 5 073 messages

those 3 bars above the ability bar, is that the XP meter?



#620
EnduinRaylene

EnduinRaylene
  • Members
  • 284 messages

those 3 bars above the ability bar, is that the XP meter?

That, or the Focus meter, which I don't see represented anywhere else.



#621
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

THERE HAVE BEEN A GRAVE MISUNDERSTANDING. Players won't be changing skills on hotbar to suit opponents. 8 abilities restriction is not a strategic layer neither it adds anything to tactical layer. Because Bioware, in it's infinite wisdom, left level-up process and ability system almost intact from DA2, even slashing it more. Your characters will not have enough abilities fast enough so that this restriction makes you choose abilities best suited to situation. You are going to spend the majority of the game with less or slightly more than 8 abilities, making strategic and tactical goals of this "innovation" irrelevant. And when you do get more than 8, it's going to be a game of "what couple of actives is useless enough to keep off my bar?" instead of "I'll make this deck to fight Venatori, and this one to fight Templars". This argument being pro-restriction is thus moot.

Then this whole whining about restriction is thus moot as well, is it not? If the restriction does not matter because you won't have enough abilities, then you're getting up in arms about something that by your own words isn't going to be a factor.

#622
volkoff

volkoff
  • Members
  • 74 messages

Not only that but we also need to know what kind of fight we will be in so we can decide which abilities to use. The only way to know that is to play the game at least once so we know what kind of fight we will get.

We had the same problem is TW2 as we could only use potions when we meditate so it was either play the game without potions or restart before the fight and meditate so you use the correct potions.

If a fight comes unexpected then we should say wait until i change my abilities and prepare for the fight which is completely stupid to me.

 

in tw2 i just ran with some basic potions nearly all the time at higher difficulty's. just to increase certain stats. didn't swap em out really.

i played teso for a while aswell. really had to adjust at first but i did grow to love the limit on amount of abilities. because you really had to make a dicision. do i want to be good at X ? or be decent at X, Y and Z. sure i would've -loved-  to have that one ability more but you're still rather busy with avoiding stuff, and proccing group skills. the upside of the 8 abilities max is that it'll make tactical use of companion abilities more desirable.



#623
Degenerate Rakia Time

Degenerate Rakia Time
  • Banned
  • 5 073 messages

That, or the Focus meter, which I don't see represented anywhere else.

well i dont see any sense in a XP bar to be split in 3 parts, so if all 3 are focus maybe we can use 3 focus abilities when all are full and dont have to wait for all of them to fill up before we use a focus ability

 

or maybe specific abilities require 1,2 or 3 full bars

 

 

or they are all for separate things, like 1 for XP, 1 focus and............a microwave oven timer? (yeah, i got nothing for the 3rd)



#624
Wulfram

Wulfram
  • Members
  • 18 950 messages

Isn't focus spent per character?  So shouldn't it be visible on each individual character?

 

Could the blue line next to the health bars on the companions be focus?



#625
robertthebard

robertthebard
  • Members
  • 6 108 messages

The video I watched had them fight bears, templars, mages and a dragon all in one go and without ability swap. If nothing else this shows that no, at least at some difficulty levels you don't need to swap abilities before every fight like some predict here.


Ok, can't stop laughing. I wonder how many edits they had to pull that together, or were they all just lined up attacking one right after the other? This **** is getting weak man. I guess the better question is, was it all at once, or where there like, little breaks, where they changed locations? Did you see the travel time for the locations, or was it "Blink" we're somewhere else!!! Better yet, why, if you've seen it, didn't you link it to say "See, looky what I found"? Maybe because if we watched it, we'd see it wasn't a linear progression, and so you would have no idea what happened "off camera"?