The UI looks great for me!. Can we play the game this way the entire game (except cutscenes)? Can we annotate our own notes and place marker in the world map? Can we have something like Divinity Original Sins where you cycle the skill hotbars? 'F' next hotbar, 'R' previous hotbar.
Why on earth would you want those UI elements to show outside of combat?
I really hope they get hidden just like the console UI until combat starts, then they come into view.
The game is a tactical RPG, it's about putting together a cohesive party for the encounter at hand. It's not a game about adding 40 abilities to your hotbar and using your party as human shields while face-rolling to the credits.
Even with a decent number of abilities per character, the game could promote party coordination. That's what cross-class combos are for. If you think the game is easy on your own, consider increasing the difficulty level.
Gripes
Praises
Summary
The unnecessary restrictions in the UI does say a lot about the prowess and sophistication of Bioware's design philosophy. "We have to gimp the players to make it seem challenging and difficult."
Even with a decent number of abilities per character, the game could promote party coordination. That's what cross-class combos are for. If you think the game is easy on your own, consider increasing the difficulty level.
But that's the thing... say I'm a Mage in DA:O; I have anywhere from 20-30 abilities, then I have 3 other party members with 15-20 abilities. That's a rough total of 80-100 abilities(Obviously we're talking elder game stages), That's an obscene amount of choice, now bringing that down to 32 is a huge difference but it cuts down on a lot of the crap/overkill.
I've been defending BioWare in this case but obviously I haven't played the game... 32 abilities could be a complete failure, I believe the encounter design will match the combat and be perfectly fine but most importantly fun.
But that's the thing... say I'm a Mage in DA:O; I have anywhere from 20-30 abilities, then I have 3 other party members with 15-20 abilities. That's a rough total of 80-100 abilities(Obviously we're talking elder game stages), That's an obscene amount of choice, now bringing that down to 32 is a huge difference but it cuts down on a lot of the crap/overkill.
I've been defending BioWare in this case but obviously I haven't played the game... 32 abilities could be a complete failure, but I believe the encounter design will match the combat and be perfectly fine but most importantly fun.
BG2 had around 350 spells and abilities. That worked lke a charm.
What if I want to use those abilities outside of combat?Why on earth would you want those UI elements to show outside of combat?
Gripes
- It does not make the gameplay more tactical rather it encourages meta gaming and quickloading
How so? If you scout your terrain and listen to the locals, you shouldn't need to metagame or quicksave.
And scouting is a important part of tactics.
- It might make boss fights and continual wave fights boring chores due to the fact the players will have to spam 8 abilities.
Heck of an assumption, there.
- It removes one of the main advantages and selling points of the mage class and that is the flexibility to deal with anything and everything via spells.
Not really. Just do go in for crippling overspecialization, and you will still be able to handle anything and everything via spells.
Although, I've always found Mages to hideously underpowered and inept anyway, and incapable of handling anything via spells.
But maybe that's just me.
- There seems to be only 3 slots for concoctions which is too little.
For what? Health, Lyrium, and Stamina. That's all you really need.
I wonder if cutscenes will take the ability restrictions into their consideration. Seeing a party member cast a fireball spell during a combat heavy cutscene would really be to rub it in, if the player has been restricted from using that spell in the first place.
BG2 had around 350 spells and abilities. That worked lke a charm.
DA:I has 200 and we don't know how well this game works yet, or even if they share design philosophies.
BG may have been DA's inspiration when it was created but they are not the same game.
BG2 had around 350 spells and abilities. That worked lke a charm.
But it wont work well on consoles if that is the answer you are expecting.
DA:I has 200 and we don't know how well this game works yet, or even if they share design philosophies.
BG may have been DA's inspiration when it was created but they are not the same game.
Yes, I know. Just pointing out that more spells and abilities works very well in other games.
DA:I doesn't have 200 active abilities. Its 200 all in all. Most are upgrades to others, or passive skills. The active ability\spell number is alot shorter.
Not in real time, no. But real time play shouldn't be an objective.But it wont work well on consoles if that is the answer you are expecting.
Yes, I know. Just pointing out that more spells and abilities works very well in other games.
DA:I doesn't have 200 active abilities. Its 200 all in all. Most are upgrades to others, or passive skills. The active ability\spell number is alot shorter.
True, but having a smaller pool of abilities and tailoring a character has also worked well in games in the past also... it can work both ways, it's the implementation of it that counts.
We'll find out in November if it works or not.
1. Why is UI so huge? At what resolution was screenshot taken? You could make quickslot bar twice as low if you didn't use rhombuses for icons instead of DAO/DA2 squares. Huge ugly hourglass right in the middle. "Press TAB for something" reminder? Buttons on the left are not symmetrical with buttons on the right, not in form, nor in numbers.
2. Minimap should be re/movable. There's a specific reason why it's usually in right upper corner. Because of symmetry. And because upper part of the screen usually shows the sky part of the game world, where nothing gameplay-related happens.
3. Character icons are OK but HP bars are, again, huge. Spent HP being in red instead of empty black is bad for colour-blind perception. Why is HP in bars while mana/stamina is in circles? Why are circles not divided in actual % by spikes of character selection circle? Also angled ends of HP bars imply that they were made to be symmetrical with character icons (like they are in controller version), but in KB/M version they aren't.
4. 8 abilities limit. I said it earlier and I'll repeat it: this design decision does not make any sense to me. Your character already "plans ahead" and "chooses abilities" at each level up. Number of abilities one can unlock is very limited, limiting it further by not letting people use those abilities they played hard to unlock does not add anything to "tactical decisions". It just makes your hard-gained AP turn into dead weight.
How so? If you scout your terrain and listen to the locals, you shouldn't need to metagame or quicksave.
And scouting is a important part of tactics.
Scouts are not known to enter dangerous ruins or the Fade or deadly dungeons. They just scout the outer fringes. For example, in the gamescom demo it just says Avvar and undead. Does not say what type of Avvars or what class of Avvars. Listening to the locals who will most likely be superstitious ? Not a great way to get intel.
Heck of an assumption, there
When you only have 8 abilities that you cannot change in a long boss fight or a continuous wave of enemies, it means you have to spam the same said 8 abilities over and over.
Not really. Just do go in for crippling overspecialization, and you will still be able to handle anything and everything via spells.
Although, I've always found Mages to hideously underpowered and inept anyway, and incapable of handling anything via spells.
But maybe that's just me.
Yes darling, that is just you. Maybe you do not know how to be a mage ? I mean, we are talking about mages here, the smartest. You need to have some standards to be able to play them.
For what? Health, Lyrium, and Stamina. That's all you really need.
Mighty Offense, Rock Armor, Jar of Bees, other poisons, grenades, Resistance potions, Regeneration potions, Mythal's Favor, etc ? You might want to have them on board ? As I said previously my dear, simplistic players just use the basic stuff.
True, but having a smaller pool of abilities and tailoring a character has also worked well in games in the past also... it can work both ways, it's the implementation of it that counts.
We'll find out in November if it works or not.
True that.
But limiting more and more as a series goes on seems odd. If it had started on a limited amount of abilities etc, like Diablo, it would feel less like more and more features being removed.
Not in real time, no. But real time play shouldn't be an objective.
BioWare pioneered the real-time-with-pause gameplay style. They should design their systems around that.
It had more in common with turn-based combat than it does with real time combat. I'm not sure there is a design that serves both real time and real-time-with-pause well.
And Inquisition seems to favour real time fairly strongly. I am disappointed.
Yes Dragon Age Inquisition favours real time than turn based or RTwP. The only real reason for a real time is when there isn't any henchmen or companions involved. In a party-based RPG, combat should be tactical which is what Baldur's Gate and even Origins was about. Gaming has to be casualize to appeal to larger audience. So money talks and just hope the 8 ability limitation wouldn't be a big deal.
That's my thinking. The 8 ability limit creates a disincentive to learn new active abilities.I do not see the point of learning an ability if I can no use it when I want.
True that.
But limiting more and more as a series goes on seems odd. If it had started on a limited amount of abilities etc, like Diablo, it would feel less like more and more features being removed.
Understandable.
I still think this is a move on BioWare's part to make the combat more interactive(In the ways I mentioned previously), it's a change in focus and less them actively seeking out and gimping characters.
Not in real time, no. But real time play shouldn't be an objective.
BioWare pioneered the real-time-with-pause gameplay style. They should design their systems around that.
It had more in common with turn-based combat than it does with real time combat. I'm not sure there is a design that serves both real time and real-time-with-pause well.
And Inquisition seems to favour real time fairly strongly. I am disappointed.
It does. All the videos we have seen so far is mostly action real time combat play as opposed to pause and play tactical combat.
I mean most of them just have them mashing and spamming their abilities, friendly fire turned off, then one usage of the tactical camera, one usage of the pause-play-issue orders-strategic movement thing before going right back to action play.
What would I give to see those developers who demo these videos to play the actual way I play :- On PC, with mouse and keyboard, using the pause and play tactical combat the whole way, friendly fire turned all the way to maximum.
Would definitely love to see Laidlaw and Darrah doing that on screen...and see them fumbling at it...Most of the videos have been demoed by either one of them after all...
Understandable.
I still think this is a move on BioWare's part to make the combat more interactive(In the ways I mentioned previously), it's a change in focus and less them actively seeking out and gimping characters.
Its simplifying and casualization.
Scouts are not known to enter dangerous ruins or the Fade or deadly dungeons. They just scout the outer fringes. For example, in the gamescom demo it just says Avvar and undead. Does not say what type of Avvars or what class of Avvars.
That's more than enough. Avvars are barbarians, so they'll have a mixture of warriors, rogues and the occasional mage, with no elemental weaknesses.
Undead will be a similar mix, but with elemental weaknesses, so in terms of elements, it's them you will need to prepare for.
Listening to the locals who will most likely be superstitious ? Not a great way to get intel.
It's a fantastic way to get intel. The locals will know who's been giving them a hard time, be it demons, Templars, undead, whatever.
That's what you need to know, and that's what they'll give you.
When you only have 8 abilities that you cannot change in a long boss fight or a continuous wave of enemies, it means you have to spam the same said 8 abilities over and over.
There are four characters in a team, with eight abilities each. That's 32 abilities altogether.
And that had better be one heck of a boss fight if forces you through a complete run of all 32 abilities, is all I'm saying.
Yes darling, that is just you. Maybe you do not know how to be a mage ? I mean, we are talking about mages here, the smartest. You need to have some standards to be able to play them.
I know that when I tell my mage to heal someone and they never do, that's a problem. I know that when my mages are consistently the first killed in any battle across two game, that's a problem. I know that when my rogues and warriors have already cleaned out a fight before my mage even fires a spell, that's a problem.
You can whine all you want about Mages being overpowered, but I've never seen any evidence of it. A warrior/rogue team is vastly more efficient.
And you failed to reply to the actual point of the post, which is that a properly specced mage should still be highly versatile. Which tells me that I know more about using them then you do.
Mighty Offense, Rock Armor, Jar of Bees, other poisons, grenades, Resistance potions, Regeneration potions, Mythal's Favor, etc ? You might want to have them on board ? As I said previously my dear, simplistic players just use the basic stuff.
Redundant. My characters all have abilities that do the same thing, but without having to pay.
Its simplifying and casualization.
I politely disagree with your opinion and think that you're looking at things the wrong way.
Limitations do not equal simplification.
It's a big trend that everyone yells: "This is for casuals" as soon as they see some change in the fundementals of RPGs.
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