29 réponses à ce sujet

[Colbyachi]

I know many of you think the anvil of the void is a horrible creations which needs to be destroyed, but hear me out. Whichout the dwarves would have never became the empire that they were and would have long since been over ran by the darkspawn. I know branka goes a little crazy and she seals herself in a fortess basically just fighting darkspawn with her golems. This combined with the fact that she made many golems for bhelen before leaving means the dwarfs have a better chance of defending thenselfs as well as mount a counteroffensive. The ladder is possible imo if you played a dwarf warden and sent human aid to the dwarves to retake much of what was lost. I know that, that May not happen in DAI but in my mind that's how It would play out. I know that it's not morally right by any means, but sometimes it takes an act of evil to help the greater good.

[DracoAngel]

So... forcing people to become golems (because it stated that Bhelen will eventually start sending unwilling dwarves he deems foes/enemies to Branka to be made into golems. And seeing as Bhelen is a little unhinged and you can do the smallest of things to receive his wrath...) is okay as long as its for the greater good? They have done fine for the past like 300 or so years not needing to enslave souls and if your a dwarf warden you are can now send human aid to them.

 

uh... I'll just continue to destroy that horrible Anvil

[Colbyachi]

So... forcing people to become golems (because it stated that Bhelen will eventually start sending unwilling dwarves he deems foes/enemies to Branka to be made into golems. And seeing as Bhelen is a little unhinged and you can do the smallest of things to receive his wrath...) is okay as long as its for the greater good? They have done fine for the past like 300 or so years not needing to enslave souls and if your a dwarf warden you are can now send human aid to them.

uh... I'll just continue to destroy that horrible Anvil

Done fine? That went from an empire the size of the while of Thaddeus to 2 cities with no connection to the other.are you saying that they are fine because they still live? The only break they get from the fight underground is during a blight, of course they need a weapon that can change their fate. Without golems orzammar or the boon the dwarves will die out leaving only 1 dwarf settlement left in the world.

[Lavaeolus]

Without golems orzammar or the boon the dwarves will die out leaving only 1 dwarf settlement left in the world.

The ones left over I'm pretty sure are also semi-Blighted, akin to the Wardens. Things are really not great for the dwarves here.

 

Sure, it's somewhat the dwarves' fault, given that their rigid society is really shooting holes in them (Bhelen reverses this a bit, for what it's worth), but as it stands they are slowly, slowly dying.

[luna1124]

Caradin begs the warden to destroy it. I only preserved it once for the achievement. But it is a matter of choice and we can all play the way we like

[Lavaeolus]

@above: This is true, but if we accept this then we will have very little to discuss. So instead I'm afraid I'm going to have to state my shock at the mind-numbing idiocy of whoever made the opposite decision to me, for don't they know X facts and Y?

[Dabrikishaw]

I guess I could be persuaded to have no problem with them using the Anvil on other dwarves, but the surface raids are unacceptable.

[Colbyachi]

If you side with bhelen then the surface raids dint happen, at lease not shown in the epilogue

[Lavaeolus]

The epilogue for Bhelen + Branka is hardly great, though. He ends up pushing her and she locks herself and the Anvil away.

[DracoAngel]

Done fine? That went from an empire the size of the while of Thaddeus to 2 cities with no connection to the other.are you saying that they are fine because they still live? The only break they get from the fight underground is during a blight, of course they need a weapon that can change their fate. Without golems orzammar or the boon the dwarves will die out leaving only 1 dwarf settlement left in the world.

OKay, 'done fine' probably wasn't the best way to put it. More like they've endured. If dwarves could get their heads out of their butts when it comes to politics and rigid society, they could probably do a whole lot better.

[Mike3207]

I'd be Ok with sparing the anvil if it was only used on dwarves nearing the end of their life.

[X Equestris]

Even without the golems, the dwarves make some decent territorial gains post-Fifth Blight. If Bhelen is king, I think the dwarves have a solid chance of enduring.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I know many of you think the anvil of the void is a horrible creations which needs to be destroyed, but hear me out. Whichout the dwarves would have never became the empire that they were and would have long since been over ran by the darkspawn.

I'll grant you the "long since been overrun" part, but if I remember correctly the dwarves were in the process of losing their empire by the time they even created golems; therefore you can't say they never would have become an empire without them.

[Colbyachi]

I'll grant you the "long since been overrun" part, but if I remember correctly the dwarves were in the process of losing their empire by the time they even created golems; therefore you can't say they never would have become an empire without them.

That is true, thanks for the correction. What I meant to state was that the empire in which they already had would be been lost at a much faster rate. Should have proof read before I posted it. I was just in the mood to make a compelling arguement so the truth was bent a tad by mistake.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

That is true, thanks for the correction. What I meant to state was that the empire in which they already had would be been lost at a much faster rate. Should have proof read before I posted it. I was just in the mood to make a compelling arguement so the truth was bent a tad by mistake.

Without at least a few golems, it is possible that they would have already fallen.

[Colbyachi]

Without at least a few golems, it is possible that they would have already fallen.

I just feel like the golems they used to have the legion of the dead, And the 5th blight are the only reasons they haven't been wiped out in orzammar yet. Who am I to deny them the right to fight back? It may not be the right way, but it is one of the only ways they can actively beat the darkspawn up to this point.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I just feel like the golems they used to have the legion of the dead, And the 5th blight are the only reasons they haven't been wiped out in orzammar yet. Who am I to deny them the right to fight back? It may not be the right way, but it is one of the only ways they can actively beat the darkspawn up to this point.

I don't think the Fifth Blight made all that much of a difference. The darkspawn were relaxing their attacks on Orzammar, but it lasted about a year. That's not that long relative to the time-span we're thinking of. Neither is the time during which the dwarves had the Anvil, of course, but that had far-reaching effects due to the continued existence of the golems that were created and which were not lost to desertion, the spawn, or just the market in Tevinter. They're only used in the worst case scenario, but weapons like that can still turn such battles, and it's really those battles that are most likely to break the stalemate and destroy what's left of the Orzammar dwarves.

[Colbyachi]

I don't think the Fifth Blight made all that much of a difference. The darkspawn were relaxing their attacks on Orzammar, but it lasted about a year. That's not that long relative to the time-span we're thinking of. Neither is the time during which the dwarves had the Anvil, of course, but that had far-reaching effects due to the continued existence of the golems that were created and which were not lost to desertion, the spawn, or just the market in Tevinter. They're only used in the worst case scenario, but weapons like that can still turn such battles, and it's really those battles that are most likely to break the stalemate and destroy what's left of the Orzammar dwarves.

I say the fifth blight made a huge difference in my mind because What if the events in the dwarf noble origion happened and the blight didn't happen right after? A kingless city would not stand a chance. I'm sure they would throw someone in charge, but moral and lack of proper leadership would destroy them from the inside if it wasn't for the warden/blight interfering

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I say the fifth blight made a huge difference in my mind because What if the events in the dwarf noble origion happened and the blight didn't happen right after? A kingless city would not stand a chance. I'm sure they would throw someone in charge, but moral and lack of proper leadership would destroy them from the inside if it wasn't for the warden/blight interfering

Oh, right. Fair point.

[dragonflight288]

Done fine? That went from an empire the size of the while of Thaddeus to 2 cities with no connection to the other.are you saying that they are fine because they still live? The only break they get from the fight underground is during a blight, of course they need a weapon that can change their fate. Without golems orzammar or the boon the dwarves will die out leaving only 1 dwarf settlement left in the world.

 

And eventually none. 

 

And then the world will follow. Only dwarves who live underground are resistant to lyrium, only they can mine it. Without them, humans and elves will not be able to get any of it, period. And without lyrium, you won't have templars, you won't have mages rituals, you won't have tranquil, and possibly most importantly, you won't have the Grey Warden joining ritual. 

 

And without that ritual, you cannot end a blight. 

[gottaloveme]

I haven't read every post but I think that doing evil does not beget good. Not in the long term. For civilisations to survive I'm thinking you need the long, long, long, view. Or the big, big, big, picture. At the far, far, far, end of the day . . .

 

I have never saved the anvil but from some of the posts I've read imply that the freshly minted golems are used in surface raids?

[Colbyachi]

I haven't read every post but I think that doing evil does not beget good. Not in the long term. For civilisations to survive I'm thinking you need the long, long, long, view. Or the big, big, big, picture. At the far, far, far, end of the day . . .

 

I have never saved the anvil but from some of the posts I've read imply that the freshly minted golems are used in surface raids?

If you put harrowmont on the throne, yes. he tells branka he will not supply any more dwarves to her cause and this cause her to go to the surface to raid, and starts a short war with the humans. If its Bhelen they have a disagreement and she seals hersle fin th edeep roads in a fortress with her golems. shes till killing darkspawn in the laddar so its not that* bad

[Kenshen]

I would rather die than commit an evil act the hopefully turns out well or for the greater good.  That is a dangerous path to walk and once you start down it it is almost impossible to get off.  Darth Vadar comes to mind.  

[Colbyachi]

I would rather die than commit an evil act the hopefully turns out well or for the greater good. That is a dangerous path to walk and once you start down it it is almost impossible to get off. Darth Vadar comes to mind.

Just think of it as if you were a dwarf. If your way of life and survival as a whole was being treated, don't you think we should as least give them the choice to use it

[Colbyachi]

I would rather die than commit an evil act the hopefully turns out well or for the greater good. That is a dangerous path to walk and once you start down it it is almost impossible to get off. Darth Vadar comes to mind.

Just think of it as if you were a dwarf. If your way of life and survival as a whole was being treated, don't you think we should as least give them the choice to use it