673 réponses à ce sujet

[cjones91]

If true Solas is racist.  Anyone who dislikes racists will have to...........

It's not racism to be attracted to members of  your own demographic.

[Wissenschaft]

Nop it is scandalous to be with an elven servant. If you read the last book you can see that.

 

Huh, I did not refute that it was scandalous to be with an elven servant. I've read the book, theres more than one reason her affair is scandalous, I was pointing them out.

[daveliam]

He still could be. There is now way options are equal for all sexualities/genders at this point, so it's really just a matter of who gets extra sad times. For all we know BW could be gay and it'd be lesbians and straight men who have one less option instead of gay men. (At this point I'd be surprised if Vivienne wasn't a straight LI, but I've been surprised before.)

 

Exactly, Solas being straight and elf-only makes it impossible for equal options, so there's no reason to assume that Vivienne is the last option anymore.  She probably is, but it's not because they needed 4 males and 4 females.  It's more because Blackwall sounds like he's being written as an "older" guy (see the tweets about him reminding his writer of of her father and his being more interested in a hot water bottle than romance --I'm paraphrasing these, obviously).  I suspect it's her, but the "It's got to be her because it won't be even otherwise" argument is already blown out of the water at this point.

 

Nop it is scandalous to be with an elven servant. If you read the last book you can see that.

 

So what if it's scandalous.  A woman like Vivienne could just easily revel in the scandal.  After all, it's better to have them talking about you in a scandal than not talking about you at all......

[Jester]

We do need more representation of non-straight characters in media, but said media does not need to have a completely equal number of non straight couples/characters/options to be good representation. 

Representiation in the media should at least resemble real proportions that exist within society. That goes both ways - I'm all for homosexual represantiation in games, movies and books (which is quite poor at the moment), but making homosexuals 50% of society is just plain stupid and unbelievable. 

You companions and advisors should follow the same rules - making 70% of them interested in homosexual relations (either as bisexual or gay persons), as it is suggested by some in this topic, actually breaks my immersion inside the game, because I know that their sexuality was created artificially, to fulfill the need of some (smaller or greater) fraction of the community. 

 

The particularly important example of this artificiality is Anders in DA2, who was clearly a straight male in Awakening (he was hitting on Velana and flirted with female Warden), but was suddenly made bisexual with inclination towards males (Carl was obviously his previous partner, and he initiates romance with male Hawke, when he doesn't do that for female Hawke). While other changes in his character, like reducing his humorous responses and replacing his joking attitude with an angry rebellious one, can be explained by his union with Justice, sudden change of his sexual preferances was clearly caused by a romance design, which tried to be pro-LGBT, but ended up being riddiculous as a result. 

 

Overrepresentation of homosexuals in a game, is just as bad as making 90% of characters male (like quite many Hollywood movies), or not representing homosexuals at all. All of those reduces the believability of created world. 

In that case, I'd like quality over quantity. Make Sera and Dorian only gay campanions, but make them interesting and strong characters, with a personality defined by much more than their sexuality. Make them like Leliana - not like Zevran. Get closer to Cortez, than Kelly. 

I know that BioWare can do it - Celene and Briala is definately the best homosexual relationship I've seen in the media so far. It was done extremely well, putting emphasis on feelings and emotions, showing connection and conflict - not dwelling on sexuality. At the same time, it showed that some of those witnessing romance were amused or felt awkwardness. Again - believability. Demonstrating that while homosexual relationships are something normal, they are not accepted so easily by everyone. 

 

On the topic of romances, and putting for a moment sexuality aside:

I'd like the in game romances to be something more that "do 3 conversations, gain +100 approval and do guy's personal quest, and then have a sex scene, netting an achievement". I still remember romances in Baldur's Gate II. While sometimes bugged, Viconia romance had some of the most emotional and best written romance conversations I have experienced in a game till this day. The only romance in recent BioWare games that even comes close to this standard is continued romance with Liara in Mass Effect 3. With addition of Citadel DLC, it came really close to showing some real, long term caring relationship. With it's meaningful dialogue and Liara's frequent screentime, it was more than "have a sex scene before final mission and get Paramour achievement" I can deal with fewer romances if I get something of that quality. 

[Wissenschaft]

She considered the prospect of marrying Gaspard so I assume the answer to that is no.

 

Actually, Celene also confirms that she wanted to marry Cailan to unite their countries. Which means its unclear if Celene is Lesbian or BI. Perhaps she is Lesbian but willing to marry a man for the good of her country.

[Loki_344]

No. Read the article next time, it's not very long...

 

Did you read the article? It says adult women mostly play casual computer games and are a 50/50 split of the computer and console game industry as a whole.

[Mihura]

Huh, I did not refute that it was scandalous to be with an elven servant. I've read the book, theres more than one reason her affair is scandalous, I was pointing them out.

 

At one point in the book Gaspard makes rumors about Celene and it is not that she has a female lover but an elven lover that is female, when he sees them, he is surprise about her being with an elf and not a woman.

World of Thedas too says it is a thing about personality. Actually Ferelden is a lot more reserved that Orlais it seem but even in your noble human origin you flirt with ease. 

[cjones91]

Actually, Celene also confirms that she wanted to marry Cailan to unite their countries. Which means its unclear if Celene is Lesbian or BI. Perhaps she is Lesbian but willing to marry a man for the good of her country.

That's true,given the evidence though it could be either one.

[TheJediSaint]

It's not racism to be attracted to members of  your own demographic.

Solas has a sexual preference.  You don't need a reason for that.

[Notshauna]

Huh, I did not refute that it was scandalous to be with an elven servant. I've read the book, theres more than one reason her affair is scandalous, I was pointing them out.

But, that was an Elven servant, the Inquisitor is certainly on higher social standings.

[BabyFratelli]

Is this legitimately confirmed or a semi-confirmed super rumor?

[daveliam]

<SNIP>

 

I don't have time to deal with all of this nonsense.  What I can say?  Anders' writer, the Head Writer for the series, confirmed that Anders was always bisexual.  Sorry that Anders didn't make that clear enough for you.  He should lose his bisexual card, since I'm pretty sure that it's stated right on the front, "Warning, you must declare your attraction to the other gender after expressing attraction to one gender!"

[TheGusWho]

 

 

Overrepresentation of homosexuals in a game, is just as bad as making 90% of characters male (like quite many Hollywood movies), or not representing homosexuals at all. All of those reduces the believability of created world. 

 

I have to disagree with this for several reasons - not least of which is that "overrepresentation" of homosexuals never leads to people believing that heterosexuality is an aberration or a defect of character that shouldn't be present in heroic figures. While overrepresentation of heterosexual characters does lead to the stigmatization and marginalization of non-heterosexual characters.

 

Also, Thedas is a world of magic, dragons, and invented races and religions. You don't find it plausible that their sexualities and their rate of commonality would be different from our world, too?

[daveliam]

Is this legitimately confirmed or a semi-confirmed super rumor?

 

Legit confirmed by Darrah AND Allan.

[Wissenschaft]

There is one point when Gaspard makes rumors about Celene and it is not that she has a female lover but an elven lover that is female, when he see them, he is surprise about her being with an elf and not a woman.

World of Thedas too says it is a thing about personality. Actually Ferelden is a lot more reserved that Orlais it seems and in your noble human origin you flirt in ease. 

 

 

Responding requires a little bit of spoiling of Masked Empire.

Spoiler

The reason Gaspard put emphasis on Celene having an affair with an "Elven" woman is because there was an Elven rebellion happening. The rumor implied Celene was being indecisive over a rebellion because of her love interest. That rumor was much more about goading Celene into rash action than her choice of lover. And it worked.

[BabyFratelli]

Legit confirmed by Darrah AND Allan.

 

Thanks Dave and/or Liam. 

 

Happy for the people who wanted to romance him who can, though it's an interesting turn of events as far as equalness goes. 

[daveliam]

Thanks Dave and/or Liam. 

 

Happy for the people who wanted to romance him who can, though it's an interesting turn of events as far as equalness goes. 

 

Of course, Baby.  Anything for you, my friend! 

 

And it's Dave AND Liam. 

[aTigerslunch]

Yay, Solas!  I wont be exploring that romance arc as of right now. Most likely if its an achievement, it would be the only real reason for me. Alistair, Anders, Fenris were just achievements to grab for, I liked how they was made but wasn't interested. Anders was so well made, that people either loved or hated him.  

 

Honestly, great characters/personalities get talked about long time after their time passed. Doesn't mean he/she is loved, hated has the same reflection, if we stop referencing how we love or hate someone, then their stories as a character/personality would finally die. Then someone will end up repeating that (Anders) annoying pest later. 

 

Ladies enjoy Solas, any guys interested in him, enjoy rolling a female elf for him.   Have fun is what its about.

[Mihura]

Responding to that requires a little bit of spoiling.

Spoiler

The reason Gaspard put emphasis on Celene having an affair with an "Elven" woman is because there was an Elven rebellion happening. The rumor implied Celene was being indecisive over a rebellion because of her love interest. That rumor was much more about goading Celene into rash action than her choice of lover.

 

Not really that just helps his position and force her to do something, even when you talk about this with Leliana she seems to have internal racism about elven servants. Elven people are second class citizen and 

Spoiler

there is a character that refuses to assume his heritage because of that in the book.

[Gannayev of Dreams]

Thanks Dave and/or Liam. 

 

Happy for the people who wanted to romance him who can, though it's an interesting turn of events as far as equalness goes. 

 

We were warned back when only about 2 LIs were revealed that there would be inequality.  So far it has been mostly equal... but now it seems the truth is finally catching up.

[phantomrachie]

The particularly important example of this artificiality, is Anders in DA2, who was a clearly straight male in Awakening (he was hitting on Velana and flirted with female Warden), but was suddenly made bisexual, with inclination towards males (Carl was obviously his previous partner, and he initiates romance with male Hawke, while he doesn't do that for female Hawke). While other changes in his character, like reducing his humorous responses and replacing his joking attitude with angry rebielious one can be explained by him merging with Justice, sudden change of his sexual preferances was clearly caused by a romance design, which tried to be pro-LGBT, but ended up being riddiculous as a result. 

 

 

Please explain to me how a man openly flirting with women means that he is not bisexual.

 

All we knew about Anders was that he wasn't gay that it is. Bisexual's have preferences just like everyone else, Anders could have a preference for women (hence his flirting in DA:A) but also be open to men. We only know about one male lover, so that is not necessarily a preference for men.

 

 

Overrepresentation of homosexuals in a game, is just as bad as making 90% of characters male (like quite many Hollywood movies), or not representing homosexuals at all. All of those reduces the believability of created world. 

In that case, I'd like quality over quantity. 

 

Equal LIs in one game does not equal overrepresentation of homosexuals in games. You MIGHT have an argument if most of the NPCs you met were also gay but they won't be, so you have no point.

[pastabender]

Over representation of homosexuality? Your straight white privilege is showing.

The only way homosexuality is going to be less stigmatised in society and in gaming is to HAVE these options at least on equal footing. Straight people have had all their options catered to since gaming began, would it be so bad and unrealistic to have an increasing amount of LGBTQ options ESPECIALLY in a fantasy game???

I'm not sure where you got your stats from (I can't be bothered actually quoting you) and yeh it's known LGBTQ people represent a smaller portion of the general populace (but this in itself is still flawed because there's still a lot of people still lying/not comfortable with it), but that in no way means they should be treated as such. That still perpetuates the idea that we are lesser people. I hope you can rethink on your argument.

[NextArishok]

It's not racism to be attracted to members of  your own demographic.

I'm not so sure I agree with that.  I think there are people from every background that are beautiful, and I'm not just saying to me, but society as a whole.  I might not always agree like I think Taylor Swift is disgusting...especially after seeing those pics of her wearing those 1960ies grandma swimwear?

 

But to say you can can't find ONE person from any certain demographic that you aren't extremely attracted to?  I'm not so sure some type of racisim wouldn't be coming into play there.

[iheartbob]

Jester, a fantasy game does not need to form to real world "statistics" regarding sexuality.

 

With eight romantic options available in this game, the most of any bioware game, we should be happy to have any of them as an option. I'm a little bummed that Dorian is only available as a male romance because I never play male characters, but that is hardly something that is going to affect my "immersion" in the game. And I can respect that that was the sexual identity created for him by the writer.

 

Again, this is an adventure role playing game. Not a dating Sim.

 

I'm going to perhaps prematurally assume that Vivienne is the final romance and the final race gated romance as well.