150 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Yes, I know. Just saying the planning will be greatly limited.

 

That's true. I don't think anyone's saying you'll have a ton of planning choices to make. Just that it'll make you preplan.

[Sidney]

Managing resources isn't planning,that's just being strategic.Actual planning would involve looking at those resources and seeing how effective they would be in certain situations.

 

I'm not sure what difference you are trying to make. Strategy is planning to use your resources to their best effect - franlky tactics is as well.

 

Except in reality it doesn't matter. A large part of why I am so blase about this is that you don't need to use "specific" spells/powers in the game. You don't have to use any powers in this game over all (I've run pure auto-attack fights on all non-boss fights and finished the game) so all of the planning and thinking is largely mental self-pleasuring because it has no purpose.

[Puppy Love]

Good I hate ability glut and abilities so circumstantial as to ultimately become useless as a result.

 

I just hope for more active abilities without long ass timers.  I miss being able to do things like time a roll to avoid a hit, ect.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Play on Casual, the way the game was intended to be played.

Because the game is so intended to be played casually when you have to do even more strategizing before a fight.

[Rawgrim]

Because the game is so intended to be played casually when you have to do even more strategizing before a fight.

 

You won't have to on Causal. Just do it and pretend it matters.

[Messi Kossmann]

Few abilities to chose give to planning more importance then have all abilities at your dispose in a combat situation. If you chose a poor abilitie to a situation, you will have virtually only 7 abilities to be used. So yes, this makes planning more importance then ever.

[Rawgrim]

Few abilities to chose give to planning more importance then have all abilities at your dispose in a combat situation. If you chose a poor abilitie to a situation, you will have virtually only 7 abilities to be used. So yes, this makes planning more importance then ever.

 

If you only have 7 it would require zero planning. You can place 8 on your quickslots, after all.

[Messi Kossmann]

If you only have 7 it would require zero planning. You can place 8 on your quickslots, after all.

I think you not understand what i tried to say. If you choose a ability that it's not too efective in a combat, so you have virtually one useless ability, and virtually  only 7 to be used.

[ElementalFury106]

200 abilities (obviously not including passives) and we can only hot-key 8 per person. 

 

Sorry, I absolutely hate this design decision.

[Steelcan]

200 abilities (obviously not including passives) and we can only hot-key 8 per person. 

 

Sorry, I absolutely hate this design decision.

not just hotkey, use at a time

[Krazy Krazer]

200 abilities (obviously not including passives) and we can only hot-key 8 per person. 

 

Sorry, I absolutely hate this design decision.

 

200 abilities across all classes and specializations, abilities which include uprades and passives.

[Rawgrim]

I think you not understand what i tried to say. If you choose a ability that it's not too efective in a combat, so you have virtually one useless ability, and virtually  only 7 to be used.

 

My bad. I misread it.

[Altima Darkspells]

Know what would also be incredibly frustrating? If you couldn't save party/skill/tactics profile.

So when you go from the firey fire mountain where all you use is cold spells then suddenly appear on icy ice mountain where you want to use fire, you have to spend fifteen minutes shuffling around ****.

[Giubba]

200 abilities across all classes and specializations, abilities which include uprades and passives.

 

We will be plagued for months to come with this kind of comments, mark my words

[Sidney]

Know what would also be incredibly frustrating? If you couldn't save party/skill/tactics profile.

So when you go from the firey fire mountain where all you use is cold spells then suddenly appear on icy ice mountain where you want to use fire, you have to spend fifteen minutes shuffling around ****.

 

 

If we are limited it would be nice to be able to "quick select" your mapped abilities. I could have a "Trash Mob" versus "Boss" profile of what was mapped.

[LexXxich]

Know what would also be incredibly frustrating? If you couldn't save party/skill/tactics profile.

So when you go from the firey fire mountain where all you use is cold spells then suddenly appear on icy ice mountain where you want to use fire, you have to spend fifteen minutes shuffling around ****.

That's only if you actually invested AP into both Fire and Frost spell trees on one character. You can't just think:"I need frost spells" and get them.

[Sidney]

We will be plagued for months to come with this kind of comments, mark my words

 

Well and do abilities count the non-combat things like Persuade which wouldn't get mapped anyways?

[Krazy Krazer]

Know what would also be incredibly frustrating? If you couldn't save party/skill/tactics profile.

So when you go from the firey fire mountain where all you use is cold spells then suddenly appear on icy ice mountain where you want to use fire, you have to spend fifteen minutes shuffling around ****.

 

You can save preset tactics in the previous games under custom 1,2 and 3, so we can assume it may be in Inquisition.

[Altima Darkspells]

If we are limited it would be nice to be able to "quick select" your mapped abilities. I could have a "Trash Mob" versus "Boss" profile of what was mapped.

Well, they've said that abilities could only be changed out of combat. This would indicate that there would be no 'quick select' option, because that would be something more they'd create for combat situations. It would probably be an option in the tactics menu or something.

[Altima Darkspells]

You can save preset tactics in the previous games under custom 1,2 and 3, so we can assume it may be in Inquisition.

We could also use more than eight skills at a time in previous games.

[Reaverwind]

You can save preset tactics in the previous games under custom 1,2 and 3, so we can assume it may be in Inquisition.

 

Tactics, yes, what's on the hotbar, no. 

[cindercatz]

That's the kind of planning you do at level up, not in the field. It's never possible to get everything. So when I'm choosing abilities for purchase and I only have so much ap, I'm spending it on things I can actually use as much as possible. When there's an eight active talent limit, I'm (hopefully) only choosing eight and maxing out their development. For the rest, I'm taking passives because they're overall more useful than an alternate active ability. So there is no ability field planning. There's just less options in combat and less adaptive tactics and VI for all of my characters. The only benefit is uniformity with mp if you care about that, but it's useless to me in its current form.

[DarthLaxian]

Then you should have planned your abilities better.

 

The only way I can see this system not working is if the game doesn't give you enough information to plan ahead. That's a legitimate concern and I hope the game has that base covered.

 

It may work - but it does not change the fact, that this system is retarded (you can't plan fights in advance - you wont know if there is a big dragon/demon/other boss-character around the corner you need single-target spells against or mitigation because the boss uses a lot of AOE-Spells etc. - so you will die a lot more...I think it's another game-stretching mechanic, like the "no healing outside of combat - go farm for potions"-thing they dragged back, after it was tossed/retired (note: most games had this old fashioned/outdated mechanic but it was dropped after better mechanics had been developped) out exactly because all it did was detract from the fun!)

 

Thanks Bioware, really great show -.- *sarcasm*

 

greetings LAX

[Mud Dude]

I know bioware is trying to go over the consoles and some console people I know complaining that I got more abilities than them but like I appreciate bioware trying to work on both consoles and PCs it just sucks to only have 8 abilities hot Keyed and the others unavaliabke during combat lets just wait till the game comes out and then we can deicide to protest or not.

[PopeUrban]

It's not just about console accessibility, it's about efficient design.

 

I had a long history with a game that used a very similar system, the original guild wars.

 

By the end my main character had learned, i think, around 500 skills. The bar was limited to 8 skills. This did not hurt the game.

 

What you have to realize is that more does not equal better. A perfect example is damage typing and effect types.

 

If you have four spells: Ice ball, earth ball, fireball, and magic ball, these spells are virtually identical single target damage with virtually identical cooldowns. The only reason they exist at all is because you've engineered the game around elemental damage that necessitates them. I.E. if you have creatures that are extremely weak to fire and strong against ice, and vice versa, then you need comparable spells in both damage types, otherwise the player may find themselves without a basic damage spell in a situation.

 

This in turn baloons the entire design of your ability system.

 

Now that you have four damage types, and four virtually identical resistance types, you need to make sure the players have four times as many options to select new skills. Now that the players have four times as many new skills, but only half of them are useful in a given fight, you need to give them four times as much hotbar space.

 

In the end what fun did you add to the game? You simply copy/pasted the same mechanic four times.

 

Now take a system like the original Guild Wars. 200ish abilities per class (and there was cross classing) but every ability had a unique and fundametally different function. Which meant the individual abilities were not as important as choosing 8 abilities that complimented each other, and complimented those selected by your party.

 

The Result? It's the only game in which the concept of "Party builds" actually worked. It's the only game in whic you could have each member of the party be specced in a way that was utterly horrible without the supproting skills of the rest of the party, but because drastically more effective than a PUG collection of "selfish specs" for the task you designed it for.

 

In fact, once people started deconstructing the system down to "build wars" the popular meta builds only persisted because they worked extremely well when combined with the other popular meta builds

 

You set up a fire build because it was a good AOE spec, not because you needed it to kill ice imps. You set up an ice spec because it was a great control spec, not because you needed to resist frost bolt.

 

Furthermore, this type of system made it pretty darn easy to figure out when you were designing a worthless skill. In a slot limited bar, you can't litter the design with niche and useless skills, because they're not worth the limited real estate required to carry them. This means far less annoying "Well I never did put that one point in to dispel squid curses because I never fight squids, but now I'm fighting a squid boss and can't win because I don't have the one magic skill that's useless everywhere else" situations.

 

Most importantly, however, it creates a system of skill selection mechanics that promotes, and even requires actually using the whole roster of avaliable party members. When your game is built around streamlining people in to broad roles like "AoE control guy, zerg tank, boss tank, group shield mage, bosstank shield mage, add killer rogue, etc." You find that you tend to appreciate and use your party more. You develop habits which are more in line with the intent of party baseed RPGs, in that you, the main character, would select allies best fitting the task at hand rather than selecting the same allies all the time and leaving the rest to rot in camp despite the ongoing plot insisting that they're fighting the good fight all the time along with you.

 

It's not al all about fitting it on to a console controller. It's about a fundamental design flaw in old school CRPGS that created a sea of hotkeys and inventory hell that got in the way of what the game is about: Succefully building and leading a party using your wits and builds to succeed in encounters.

 

This stemmed from the D&D heritage, in which the book was FULL of niche stuff in order to facilitate a wide array for roleplaying potential. This worked for tabletop games, as the DM's job was to ensure they adjusted the encounters to be solvabe with the tools their players had. CRPGs don't have DMS, and they work the opposite way, they expect the player to adjust to the encounters.

 

Paring down skills so they're more about tangible effect than abstract concept works far, far batter in video games as it allows the designer to much more easily design solvable encounters while giving players the freedom to build characters in ways they see fit.