4203 réponses à ce sujet

[Deviija]

It's fantasy fiction.  Why is it a problem of 'over-representation' for a fictional world to have a higher volume of queer people than in most media?  This isn't earth.  

[daveliam]

But why is that? Bisexual characters are available to straight players as well as gay players.

 

I think Ianamus is talking about the 12 advisor and companion characters' sexualities regardless of whether they are available for romances. 

 

Right now:

 

Straight - Cass, Cullen, Solas, and (likely) Varric

Bisexual - Josephine, Iron Bull, and Leliana

Gay - Dorian and Sera

Unknown - Vivienne and Blackwall

N/A - Cole

 

So, going by the "queer" versus "non-queer" dichotomy (which I'm not really sure is valid), his argument is that there are 5 "queer" characters and only 4 "non-queer" characters that we know of right now. 

 

At least I think that's the point.

 

My only issue with that is that I firmly believe that there are waaaaay more bisexual people out there in real life than most people think.  I think that as it becomes less and less taboo, we'll see way more people self-identifying as bisexual instead of either keeping it a secret or trying to suppress it.  I genuinely think that there are more bisexuals in the world that purely straight people.  But that might be a bit off topic for this thread. 

[Tytelr]

Maybe if you didn't cut of the most important part of that sentence...

 

If 6/12 of them are LGBT and all of them are romance options or have been romance options then it feels a bit like the sexual minority characters only exist to be romanced.

And why is that a problem? This is a video game that has romance options for players, not the real world. If everyone had an equal amount of options, then everyone (should be) is happy.

 

Technically, all the romances are available to straight players.  It's not like DAI scans your sexuality when you boot it up.

Apologies, I knew this, but I didn't think about it at the moment. 

 

So, going by the "queer" versus "non-queer" dichotomy (which I'm not really sure is valid), his argument is that there are 5 "queer" characters and only 4 "non-queer" characters that we know of right now. 

At least I think that's the point.

Right, but that dichotomy shouldn't exist in a video game meant to give everyone options. It's not immersion breaking to have an equal amount of characters available to everyone. (I know you understand that, just putting my ideas out there  ).

[Ianamus]

so you think it's okay that straight gamers get more romance options?

 

I certainly don't think that the solution is for the party composition and advisors to made up more than half of LGBT characters and for them all to be romances.

 

I'd honestly rather have Vivienne or Blackwall be bisexual or homosexual, not be an LI and already have a partner/lover, and have the other one be a straight LI.

[Yinello]

Maybe if you didn't cut of the most important part of that sentence...

 

If 6/12 of them are LGBT and all of them are romance options or have been romance options then it feels a bit like the sexual minority characters only exist to be romanced.

 

Except that Leliana is bi and Cole is (Aromantic) Asexual* (which isn't straight) so that's not really true. And we don't know the sexuality of Blackwall or Viv yet.

 

* Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ray561]

It still counts as representation if there is a not a romance.  But it's not a substitute for representation in the romances either. 

 

It still counts as representation if there is a not a romance.  But it's not a substitute for representation in the romances either. 

This was more on the  I don't care about the companions who aren't romanceable not so much  the rest of it.

how ever I did just realise as far as companions go there are 4 LGB companions and at the moment there a 3 hetrosexual companions for romance.

[LiaraShepard]

I certainly don't think that the solution is for the party composition and advisors to made up more than half of LGBT charactees and for them all to be romances.

 

I'd honestly rather have Vivienne or Blackwall be bisexual or homosexual, not be an LI and already have a partner/lover, and have the other one be a straight LI.

 

no thank you....

[TheJediSaint]

Apologies, I knew this, but I didn't think about it at the moment. 

There's nothing to apologize over, it's just something I wanted to throw out there.  I recall that s/s romances were more common than Bioware expected, likely because a lot of straight gamers pursue them.  

 

Basically, I don't view s/s content as being just for gay people.  I'm quite okay rolling a female PC and getting some sweet girl/girl loving on.

[SnakeCode]

Technically, all the romances are available to straight players.  It's not like DAI scans your sexuality when you boot it up.

As well as bisexual and gay players. That is they would be, if people didn't have such a problem with making multiple characters with different genders, sexualities and different races. Heck most players don't even complete ONE playthrough, never mind multiple ones.

[Pierce Miller]

As well as bisexual and gay players. That is they would be, if people didn't have such a problem with making multiple characters with different genders, sexualities and different races. Heck most players don't even complete ONE playthrough, never mind multiple ones.

I always play my ideal self, I complete many playthroughs but I'm always the same character.

[berelinde]

Maybe if you didn't cut of the most important part of that sentence...

 

If 6/12 of them are LGBT and all of them are romance options or have been romance options then it feels a bit like the sexual minority characters only exist to be romanced.

Would anyone find it strange if all five of the female companions and advisers are either LIs or former LIs?

 

It's never going to be possible to determine everyone's sexuality. People won't be walking up to the PC and saying "Hi, I'm Gus, and I'll be provisioning your keep. I'm gay." The world may be full of people with a wide range of sexualities, but unless they're interacting romantically with the protagonist, we'll never know. But it will almost always be possible to tell which gender the characters are.

[Ianamus]

I think Ianamus is talking about the 12 advisor and companion characters' sexualities regardless of whether they are available for romances. 

 

Right now:

 

Straight - Cass, Cullen, Solas, and (likely) Varric

Bisexual - Josephine, Iron Bull, and Leliana

Gay - Dorian and Sera

Unknown - Vivienne and Blackwall

N/A - Cole

 

So, going by the "queer" versus "non-queer" dichotomy (which I'm not really sure is valid), his argument is that there are 5 "queer" characters and only 4 "non-queer" characters that we know of right now. 

At least I think that's the point.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying.

 

While I love the idea of having so many non-straight characters (I'd classify Cole as asexual) I think that asking for Blackwall or Vivienne to also be bisexual is maybe going a bit too far overboard. And as I said above, having half the Inquisition be LGBT and having all of them be romance options is a bit... questionable. You'd think at least one would have their own lover or wouldn't be sexually available to the PC. And I can't count Leliana because her lover is a former PC.

 

Would anyone find it strange if all five of the female companions and advisers are either LIs or former LIs?

 

I've specifically said in the past that I really don't want this to happen, and have gone as far as to say that I don't want Vivienne to be an LI solely because of this.

 

If all of a particular demographic exist as LI's who can be romanced I don't think it sends a good example. Having every bisexual character either be an LI or open to casual sex with the player really doesn't help "bisexuals are all promiscuous" cliche, as an example.

[LiaraShepard]

That's exactly what I'm saying.

 

While I love the idea of having so many non-straight characters (I'd classify Cole as asexual) I think that asking for Blackwall or Vivienne to also be bisexual is maybe going a bit too far overboard. And as I said above, having half the Inquisition be LGBT and having all of them be romance options is a bit... questionable. You'd think at least one would have their own lover or wouldn't be sexually available to the PC. And I can't count Leliana because her lover is a former PC.

 

You could say the same about straight companions...except Varric (whose sexuality we don't know for sure) all of them are LI's. So why not make Vivi or Blackwall a non romanceable straight companion and the other one a homosexual LI? Because you know, It's questionable if all straight characters are LI's. ... -.- 

[SnakeCode]

Would anyone find it strange if all five of the female companions and advisers are either LIs or former LIs?

 

It's never going to be possible to determine everyone's sexuality. People won't be walking up to the PC and saying "Hi, I'm Gus, and I'll be provisioning your keep. I'm gay." The world may be full of people with a wide range of sexualities, but unless they're interacting romantically with the protagonist, we'll never know. But it will almost always be possible to tell which gender the characters are.

That's true, but characters can have relationships with people other than the pc, of course you wouldn't know the specifics of that character's sexuality if they were with anybody other than the protagonist. 

[Maferath]

There is no reason why a group of ten people has to be statistically representative of the population of Thedas.

[Tytelr]

There is no reason why a group of ten people has to be statistically representative of the population of Thedas.

Give this man (or woman, etc.) a medal.

[Deviija]

There is no reason why a group of ten people has to be statistically representative of the population of Thedas.

 

I'm almost expecting to see someone then say, "That's true, so it's questionable why there are so many queer people represented."  

[Ray561]

I'm almost expecting to see someone then say, "That's true, so it's questionable why there are so many queer people represented."  

thought about but didn't want to be a pain 

[Saberchic]

There is no reason why a group of ten people has to be statistically representative of the population of Thedas.

Agreed. And so far the main sexual orientations (bi, straight, gay) have a minimum of 2 options, which is more than some groups had before. Why people are acting slighted is beyond me. I think it's great that Bioware made sure that people had options.

[Ianamus]

You could say the same about straight companions...except Varric (whose sexuality we don't know for sure) all of them are LI's. So why not make Vivi or Blackwall a non romanceable straight companion and the other one a homosexual LI? Because you know, It's questionable if all straight characters are LI's. ... -.- 

 

But we already have Varric who is a straight companion who isn't an LI (we know he is into women and he has never expressed any interest at all in men, so I'm fairly confident he is straight). And in the previous games all of the non-romances were (presumed) straight or confirmed straight and the bisexual companions were all LI's. Leliana is actually the first prominent bisexual character to appear in a Bioware game and not be an LI, I think, unless you count the Asari. And she was an LI two games ago.

[SnakeCode]

I'm almost expecting to see someone then say, "That's true, so it's questionable why there are so many queer people represented."  

Why would somebody say that?

[Tytelr]

I'm almost expecting to see someone then say, "That's true, so it's questionable why there are so many queer people represented."  

This topic is stressful but I can't not defend my group.

But to maybe head this off, this is a video game that has romance options for straight and LGB peoples. That's why there are so many queer people represented. 

[SnakeCode]

Agreed. And so far the main sexual orientations (bi, straight, gay) have a minimum of 2 options, which is more than some groups had before. Why people are acting slighted is beyond me. I think it's great that Bioware made sure that people had options.

People are always going to feel as though they are being slighted at the prospect of somebody else getting one more (of anything) than them. I think it's the inner child in us.

 

The representation arguments are never going to end though, when (if) Bioware end up finally reaching a way to represent sexuality in a way everyone is happy with (unlikely I know) then people will just move on to another cause to fight for, like "why can't we play as a transgendered protagonist/ why are there no transgendered LIs?"

[Ray561]

well as far as representation goes the LGB people can't complain for romance because LGB romanable Character = 4 and Heterosexual character's as it stands = 3 ,this is not a post about options for each Orientation I know Heterosexual people can romance Bisexuals so none of that " but  herto's can still romance the bisexuals".

[daveliam]

well as far as representation goes the LGB people can't complain for romance because LGB romanable Character = 4 and Heterosexual character's as it stands = 3 this is not a post about option for each Orientation I no Heterosexual people can romance Bisexuals so no " but  herto's can still romance the bisexuals".

 

Huh?  I'm not sure I understand your point.