4203 réponses à ce sujet

[Fizzie Panda]

It's an establish part of elvish lore that in-universe, those elves who marry outside their species or have interracial relationships are shunned by the rest of their race. They are treated with disdain and their children are not acknowledged as elves (because Alistair and other half-elves appear totally human). In short, being only a Elf lover just reinforces this lore.

 

In Sera's case, it probably doesn't matter because she's not going to be having kids anyway.

Merril mentions this was a big impediment to her and Hawke and required YEARS to get over.

 

Romance between different races are supposed to be somewhat rare in Thedas.

I'm not talking about sex , I mean a relationship.

 

Solas would be the first to reflect that.

 

 

Aaahhhh okay I understand now

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I treat gender and race species on exactly the same level when talking about sexual orientation.

Well, I understand what you mean. Being open minded won't make you attracted to a Qunari if you're a dwarf and just.. aren't attracted to a species that's extremely different than yours. Just not being attracted to a different species is a viable option and it isn't related to how "open minded" you are. What I'm saying is that I'm not entirely sure that's how they'll handle it in the writing. They could handle it like that, or they could try to explain it with things like "Solas wants elf babies/people that can live in Eluvian world/etc", or "Vivienne is only interested in human nobles that will help her position", or "Sera doesn't like human nobles because they're usually jerks". They could write the issue as just a physical thing, like Varric saying he's just not into humans, but I'm not sure they will approach it like that. 

[Willowhugger]

The fact remains, you can be open-minded and have set preferences when it comes to relationships.

 

This is true in Thedas at least. Elves have cultural reasons to want to only marry within the species.

 

I, for one, would never date an Orlaisian.

Leliana proved me wrong, of course.

But otherwise, yeah, it's a dealbreaker.

[daveliam]

The fact remains, you can be open-minded and have set preferences when it comes to relationships.

Yes, of course you can.  But a preference is not the same as sexual orientation.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

Leliana doesn't really count as an Orlesian as she was born in Ferelden and then raised in Orlais

[LobselVith8]

It's an establish part of elvish lore that in-universe, those elves who marry outside their species or have interracial relationships are shunned by the rest of their race. They are treated with disdain and their children are not acknowledged as elves (because Alistair and other half-elves appear totally human). In short, being only a Elf lover just reinforces this lore.

 

The children of elves and humans are human; the developers and the novels have made this clear.

 

In Sera's case, it probably doesn't matter because she's not going to be having kids anyway.

Merril mentions this was a big impediment to her and Hawke and required YEARS to get over.

 

No, it didn't. In Act II, Merrill mentions that her people would frown upon their relationship if they proceed with a romance, and she makes an off-handed reference to how she won't have elven children (with a male protagonist); however, it wasn't an issue in the two of them coming together, and Merrill is willing to make that sacrifice because she loves Hawke.

[HuldraDancer]

Leliana doesn't really count as an Orlesian as she was born in Ferelden and then raised in Orlais

 

She's also said that she's always considered herself as Ferelden. (If I recall correctly which I'm fairly sure that I am)

[JadePrince]

I just gotta point out that just because Sera is a lesbian, that doesn't mean that 1) She doesn't want kids or 2)That she's incapable of having them. 

 

You all DO realize that gay and lesbian couples have kids all the time, right?

 

(and that's not even getting into the fact that Sera could be with a transwoman who was capable of making a baby with her)

[Willowhugger]

The children of elves and humans are human; the developers and the novels have made this clear.

 

 

No, it didn't. In Act II, Merrill mentions that her people would frown upon their relationship if they proceed with a romance, and she makes an off-handed reference to how she won't have elven children (with a male protagonist); however, it wasn't an issue in the two of them coming together, and Merrill is willing to make that sacrifice because she loves Hawke.

 

1. Biologically, they are, but nothing prevents elves from thinking they're elven other than prejudice.

 

2. Which kind of shows they needed someone like Solas, doesn't it?

[Vapaa]

They could handle it like that, or they could try to explain it with things like "Solas wants elf babies/people that can live in Eluvian world/etc", or "Vivienne is only interested in human nobles that will help her position", or "Sera doesn't like human nobles because they're usually jerks". They could write the issue as just a physical thing, like Varric saying he's just not into humans, but I'm not sure they will approach it like that. 

 

I'd like that they approach it like that. Now for Solas, I still think that "wanting to have elven babies" doesn't compromise his open-minded-ness, some people just want a family, which is fine. The Vivienne's power argument however is shaky, since an Inquisitor of any race would help her position, I see Vivienne be exclusive to humans, but simply because she only wants to have human lovers (and concerning Vivienne, sexuality and race availability could really go in any direction);

 

The Sera Argument...I won't touch it else I'll be angry.

 

Yes, of course you can.  But a preference is not the same as sexual orientation.

 

In the case of Theads, I'd say species dichotomy is as big as gender dichotomy.

[Willowhugger]

I just gotta point out that just because Sera is a lesbian, that doesn't mean that 1) She doesn't want kids or 2)That she's incapable of having them. 

 

You all DO realize that gay and lesbian couples have kids all the time, right?

 

(and that's not even getting into the fact that Sera could be with a transwoman who was capable of making a baby with her)

 

Point taken.

After all, Alistair and the Warden can't have kids but one of the options is they WILL have a child.

It just won't be biologically Alistairs.

(I maintain its Bann Teagan's because he gets around)

[Icy Magebane]

Leliana doesn't really count as an Orlesian as she was born in Ferelden and then raised in Orlais

Actually, her mother was Ferelden and she was born in Orlais... I'm not sure who her father was, so she's either 100% Ferelden or half-Orlesian...

[Vapaa]

1. Biologically, they are, but nothing prevents elves from thinking they're elven other than prejudice.

 

They're not, both Word of God and actual lore material shows that human-elf offsprings are humans.

[Willowhugger]

Leliana doesn't really count as an Orlesian as she was born in Ferelden and then raised in Orlais

Oh thank you, Maker!

Whew!
 

I felt so dirty!

[Willowhugger]

They're not, both Word of God and actual lore material shows that human-elf offsprings are humans.

 

Didn't I just say that?

[daveliam]

In the case of Theads, I'd say species dichotomy is as big as gender dichotomy.

 

Except that we have seen almost no evidence of this.  There will have been 2 out of 12 LI's who are race-gated (in games where you can be multiple races), plus Varric's off-hand comment about not being humans.  And, yes, there's been racism, but I don't think that this is the kind of evidence that you are looking for.  So, I'm not convinced that it's as big a deal as people are trying to make it out to be.

[Vapaa]

Didn't I just say that?

 

Actually, yes, I guess I bugged at that part

 

nothing prevents elves from thinking they're elven other than prejudice.

 

Because that would just be delusion, if taken to the eluvian world, the child will not have a good time.

[Willowhugger]

Except that we have seen almost no evidence of this.  There will have been 2 out of 12 LI's who are race-gated (in games where you can be multiple races), plus Varric's off-hand comment about not being humans.  And, yes, there's been racism, but I don't think that this is the kind of evidence that you are looking for.  So, I'm not convinced that it's as big a deal as people are trying to make it out to be.

 

I think it is a form of racism to be honest.

"I'm just not into humans" is a valid statement.

 

But if it's not about attraction but dismissing a person's worth based on their blood, it's racism.

 

"I'm not sexually attracted to tall women with horns and muscles" is valid (albeit wrong!)

but

"I'm not attracted to you because you remind me of a Qunari and I hate those people."

Is not.

[Reznore57]

They're not, both Word of God and actual lore material shows that human-elf offsprings are humans.

 

I don't think they are 100% humans.

 

Spoiler

In the Masked Empire , the Chevalier Michel (?) is half elf/human , and he suffers less than Celene in the Eluvian world .

[carlo angelo]

Oh thank you, Maker!

Sorry, I laughed, but I can't help but point out that your reaction reminded me of a straight guy who thought he had a crush on another guy, only for me to tell him that "no, that's a woman in a suit with short hair." He was pretty relieved.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I just gotta point out that just because Sera is a lesbian, that doesn't mean that 1) She doesn't want kids or 2)That she's incapable of having them. 

 

You all DO realize that gay and lesbian couples have kids all the time, right?

 

(and that's not even getting into the fact that Sera could be with a transwoman who was capable of making a baby with her)

I've actually been thinking this a lot lately, but I haven't really had a good chance to broach the subject. It's a bit upsetting that the issue of children is always tied to hetero relationships. If you're in a hetero relationship with Morrigan or Alistair, children are an issue. If you're in a hetero relationship with Merrill, you can talk about children. You can never talk about the subject in a same sex relationship. More than that, though, people often assume same-sex exclusion is going to be tied to breeding. Cassandra might be hetero only so she can carry on the Nevarran royal line. Solas might be hetero because he wants elven children. Like, there's absolutely no possibility that they could talk about surrogates or adoption? That's entirely off the table, not even comprehensible? 

 

I'm gay and I like kids. My boyfriend and I plan to have kids later in life and that's a viable option where I am. Many gay couples raise children. I know several gay parents, myself. It's a bit hurtful that it's made to be completely a part of the hetero world to the point that many imply it would literally erase part of a character's sexuality. The DA games are chalk full of orphans that need a loving family. Why can't that be an option for same sex couples to discuss?

[Willowhugger]

Sorry, I laughed, but I can't help but point out that your reaction reminded me of a straight guy who thought he had a crush on another guy, only for me to tell him that "no, that's a woman in a suit with short hair." He was pretty relieved.

Zap Branigan: [discovers soldier he's attracted to is Leela in disguise] Oh god, I've never been so happy to be beaten up by a woman!

Leela: Let's do it again sometime.

[LobselVith8]

1. Biologically, they are, but nothing prevents elves from thinking they're elven other than prejudice.

 

That depends on what you mean; there are "elven blooded humans" in the Alienage, and they are only excluded because it would've been too confusing for players, as Gaider mentioned once (as well as an inability to properly address them within the context of the narrative); I'm sure some treat them as part of the community, since someone like Slim (an adult) was still a resident of the Alienage.

 

I suppose that the elven protagonist could consider someone like Hall (a human character from MP who was taken in by one of the clans) to be Dalish (culturally, in the same way the historical Aveline was), but he's still human; in fact, if there's any interaction between Hall and my elven Inquisitor, I'd like my character to consider him Dalish, but that's a different matter than seeing him as elven (in the way Solas is, regardless of his upbringing).

 

2. Which kind of shows they needed someone like Solas, doesn't it?

 

I suppose it depends on how they approach Solas. I was, admittedly, disappointed that the sacrifice Merrill was making (both as an elven woman and as one of the Dalish) was given so little dialogue in the romance with Hawke; perhaps the romance will Solas will explore that, where he might confide his feelings to someone he truly loves.

[TagiDoll]

I just read (the majority) of this thread and I am bitterly dissapointed in the Varric nomance.

 

This means it is Iron Bull for me for my first run through, so no stresses for me on the last reveal...

 

 

 

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

only way Sera could have kids is by adoption or involving some kind of magic I doubt she would sleep with a man to do that since the technology needed to have kids without a man doesn't exist in DA