4203 réponses à ce sujet

[Vapaa]

Except that we have seen almost no evidence of this.  There will have been 2 out of 12 LI's who are race-gated (in games where you can be multiple races), plus Varric's off-hand comment about not being humans.  And, yes, there's been racism, but I don't think that this is the kind of evidence that you are looking for.  So, I'm not convinced that it's as big a deal as people are trying to make it out to be.

 

Actually, I see more people questionning the race gate and associating it to racism or genrally than the other way around.

 

Gender is a major discriminator (not sure if that's a word but I can't think of anything else) between people in our world, and I see species being as much as a discriminator in a multi-species world as Thedas.

[Willowhugger]

only way Sera could have kids is by adoption or involving some kind of magic I doubt she would sleep with a man to do that since the technology needed to have kids without a man doesn't exist in DA

 

It's a big issue in the gay community as some are willing to, "go along with it" to get pregnant and others aren't.

 

But that's neither here nor there I suppose.

 

Adoption is a good thing and if gay couples can have two kids in Skyrim, I see no reason not to do it in Thedas.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

don't know why this is even a thing since we know marriage and adoption isn't in the game

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I'd like that they approach it like that. Now for Solas, I still think that "wanting to have elven babies" doesn't compromise his open-minded-ness, some people just want a family, which is fine. The Vivienne's power argument however is shaky, since an Inquisitor of any race would help her position, I see Vivienne be exclusive to humans, but simply because she only wants to have human lovers (and concerning Vivienne, sexuality and race availability could really go in any direction);

 

The Sera Argument...I won't touch it else I'll be angry.

Wanting to have kids isn't closed minded. Wanting to have biological children of only your own race/species to the exclusion of partners that would otherwise be viable is a bit more questionable. I would think it was a bit questionable if someone wouldn't date an infertile person in real life, or would only date inside their own race. I understand elves are dying out, but even if we're going to accept that as cause to favor children of your own species, why couldn't they adopt? Isn't a city elf orphan child starving in some equivalent to Dark Town a decent compromise? They get to raise an elven child that would likely have starved or otherwise suffered to extreme and help support the race. I would think saving an existing elven child would be equally good for the race as bringing more elven children into the world. I think an open minded person would think this was a fair trade.

 

This depends on Solas actually being gated because he wants babies, though. That might not be the case. There's a popular theory that it's because other races can't stay long inside the Eluvians, as stated in The Masked Empire. I don't know how related he actually is to that plot, though.

[Willowhugger]

Actually, I see more people questionning the race gate and associating it to racism or genrally than the other way around.

 

Gender is a major discriminator (not sure if that's a word but I can't think of anything else) between people in our world, and I see species being as much as a discriminator in a multi-species world as Thedas.

 

I see species as a metaphor for race in Thedas.

City Elves are basically Fantasy Jews.

And their practices are reminiscent of them, up to and including marrying within the ethnicity.

It's a big issue and one I would be loathe to say elves should 'Get over.'

 

However, the reverse where a human isn't attracted to an elf because they're not human is one I'd be problematic with.

Power dynamics play a role.

I suppose that means Qunari are Fantasy Arabs.

[daveliam]

Actually, I see more people questionning the race gate and associating it to racism or genrally than the other way around.

 

Gender is a major discriminator (not sure if that's a word but I can't think of anything else) between people in our world, and I see species being as much as a discriminator in a multi-species world as Thedas.

 

I have no idea what point you are trying to make with this.  Yes, there are a bunch of people associating race-gating with racism.  Yes, there is gender discrimination in our world.  Yes, there is "species discrimination" (i.e., racism) in Thedas.

 

None of these points support the argument that having a preference for race when it comes to romance is equivalent to sexual orientation. 

[Willowhugger]

don't know why this is even a thing since we know marriage and adoption isn't in the game

You can talk about kids with Alistair in DA:O and you DO have a child with Morrigan if you choose the option.

So it's not unprecedented.

[ClassicBox]

I agree with a few posters on a lot, but I do not agree that not being in to a race is racist. I think people are drawing parallels to the real world where there are none. A qunari and dwarf are not different in the same way skin color or ethnicity are. I instead think more in terms of monkey and apes. Similar, but different species. At least that is the best real life parallel I can draw because there is only one human species.

[LobselVith8]

only way Sera could have kids is by adoption or involving some kind of magic I doubt she would sleep with a man to do that since the technology needed to have kids without a man doesn't exist in DA

 

Artificial insemination, perhaps. This is a world where it's possible to build golems with an Anvil and use necromancy, so I don't think it's implausible there could be a Thedas equivalent...

[Aimi]

Artificial insemination, perhaps. This is a world where it's possible to build golems with an Anvil and use necromancy, so I don't think it's implausible there could be a Thedas equivalent...

"If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we cure the common cold???"

[Willowhugger]

I agree with a few posters on a lot, but I do not agree that not being in to a race is racist. I think people are drawing parallels to the real world where there are none. A qunari and dwarf are not different in the same way skin color or ethnicity are. I instead think more in terms of monkey and apes. Similar, but different species. At least that is the best real life parallel I can draw because there is only currently one human species.

I dunno, Mass Effect shows something similar.

And plenty of people still wanted to have sex with aliens there.

Though, I admit, I'd never have dated Liara because I'm not into blue head fringe.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

only way Sera could have kids is by adoption or involving some kind of magic I doubt she would sleep with a man to do that since the technology needed to have kids without a man doesn't exist in DA

Uhhh, not to be gross, but all you have to do is have the guy.. you know.. in a cup and then.. use your fingers to..

 

I'm basically saying there is a very low tech way to do this that doesn't involve actual sex. 

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

I mean in DAI, this is a romance thread not a marriage or adopting counseling thread, if DAI had a marriage or adopting function in it I could understand but there is no option to do that in the game. You guys are already talking about a sensitive subject that could cause a flame war, you should stay on topic about romance in DAI

[Vapaa]

I've actually been thinking this a lot lately, but I haven't really had a good chance to broach the subject. It's a bit upsetting that the issue of children is always tied to hetero relationships. If you're in a hetero relationship with Morrigan or Alistair, children are an issue. If you're in a hetero relationship with Merrill, you can talk about children. You can never talk about the subject in a same sex relationship. More than that, though, people often assume same-sex exclusion is going to be tied to breeding. Cassandra might be hetero only so she can carry on the Nevarran royal line. Solas might be hetero because he wants elven children. Like, there's absolutely no possibility that they could talk about surrogates or adoption? That's entirely off the table, not even comprehensible? 

 

I actually find it funny (and sad) that no matter how magical an universe is, you still need a penis in a vagina to have children...resurrection ? yep, shapeshifting ? yep, control of the elements ? yep, offspring by non-natural means ? OH NO DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!

 

That aside, the fact that Solas wants an elven lover in particular actually speaks more in favor of baby issues than his straightness, however I wonder if people supposing Cass is straight because of the Neverran throne actually know anything about her character .

[LobselVith8]

"If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we cure the common cold???"

 

You seem to have missed that I put it forth as a possibility due to other incredible things being possible in Thedas, not an absolute fact.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

its not even confirmed making babies is Sola's reason for race gating, the game isn't even out just wait for the game to release

[BabyFratelli]

I actually find it funny (and sad) that no matter how magical an universe is, you still need a penis in a vagina to have children...resurrection ? yep, shapeshifting ? yep, control of the elements ? yep, offspring by non-natural means ? OH NO DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!

 

That aside, the fact that Solas wants an elven lover in particular actually speaks more in favor of baby issues than his straightness, however I wonder if people supposing Cass is straight because of the Neverran throne actually know anything about her character .

 

I think it was Mike who said the reason was a very good one. Solas isn't Dalish, so preserving his elven heritage may not be the reason. Who knows why?

[JadePrince]

Uhhh, not to be gross, but all you have to do is have the guy.. you know.. in a cup and then.. use your fingers to..

 

I'm basically saying there is a very low tech way to do this that doesn't involve actual sex. 

 

Lol, yeah, I'm pretty sure Thedas is advanced enough to have invented the turkey baster, haha.

[Aimi]

You seem to have missed that I put it forth as a possibility due to other incredible things being possible in Thedas, not an absolute fact.

No, that's exactly what I was making fun of. They are still totally unrelated things.

[Icy Magebane]

Uhhh, not to be gross, but  -snip-

 

I'm basically saying there is a very low tech way to do this that doesn't involve actual sex. 

Hadn't thought of it like that.  Kind of wish I'd kept it that way.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

Sera comes across as the type who wouldn't even want kids so I don't see why this is even being discussed as it has nothing to do with romance in the actual game, the inquisitor and the romance options having kids is nothing but fan fiction and fan art material

[LobselVith8]

No, that's exactly what I was making fun of. They are still totally unrelated things.

 

You were making fun of the fact that I pointed out that since there are incredible things possible within Thedas, some equivalent to artificial insemination might also be possible?

[Icy Magebane]

I think it was Mike who said the reason was a very good one. Solas isn't Dalish, so preserving his elven heritage may not be the reason. Who knows why?

He's still an elf, and an elf mating with a non-elf doesn't produce elves... well, at least that's true of pairings with humans.  I don't know it works with dwarves and qunari, but it's probably the same situation.  The desire to have elven children seems reasonable, although it may not be a factor... we'll find out soon enough I guess.

[Vapaa]

Yes, there is gender discrimination in our world.  Yes, there is "species discrimination" (i.e., racism) in Thedas.

 

Bad choice of words, I used "discriminator" to say "a factor that created a difference between people", not to say "prejudice".

 

None of these points support the argument that having a preference for race when it comes to romance is equivalent to sexual orientation. 

 

I said that the same way the gender dichotomy has shaped humanity, and is responsible for the differents sexual orientations of our world, the species dichotomy would've shaped Thedas in the same way and add and other layer of sexual orientations.

 

I think it was Mike who said the reason was a very good one. Solas isn't Dalish, so preserving his elven heritage may not be the reason. Who knows why?

 

Maybe, we're mostly stabbing in the dark *shrugs*

 

But I'm quite confident, after all, Weekes is writting him.

[TheTurtle]

Sera comes across as the type who wouldn't even want kids so I don't see why this is even being discussed as it has nothing to do with romance in the actual game, the inquisitor and the romance options having kids is nothing but fan fiction and fan art material

^This. Sera seems like she just wants someone who she can have fun with.