4203 réponses à ce sujet

[Nocte ad Mortem]

We aren't going to know the full damage until we find out who the last LI is. If it's Blackwall and he's gay/bi, then gay men are not as screwed over. The chances of him being gay are not high, to say the least. It's very likely that it will be Vivienne. If it's a bisexual Vivienne, then gay men are the only group to be shorted an option for their sexuality. If Vivienne is straight, then gay men and lesbians are both shorted.

 

My intuition leans toward it being a straight Vivienne gated for just humans, which means both gay men and lesbians will be shorted. Obviously I don't know this will be true, but the history of Bioware games makes it more likely than any other scenario, by a numbers game. I wouldn't voice my outrage so intensely as some, but I think it's a bit obtuse to pretend like this isn't a strong possibility considering the options we're working with.  

[Ray561]

If ALL the options in Inquisition were gay men, real life gay men would still be getting screwed over, because BioWare does not exist in a vacuum, and one game fixes nothing.

 

When BioWare gets publicity and praise for championing the cause of "inclusion in video games", yes, I am damn well going to criticise them.

 

I will not be "grateful" to a company for managing the apparently miraculous feat of recognising that my dollar is worth as much as a straight person's, anymore than I am "grateful" to random pedestrians for not punching me in the face.

Someone things the world owes them.

[Ceoldoren]

I take it back, he's got less than a week.

[luridedith]

I have 5 planned inquisitors so far for each world state:

 

A sarcastic, androgynous Qunari mage for Dorian

A dark, savage Dalish elf archer for Solas or Sera

A psychotic, religious human noble warrior for Cassandra

A 'white witch' for Cullen

A handsome dwarf rogue for Iron Bull or Josephine

[costalren28]

Edit. Shifted to another thread.

[Ianamus]

If ALL the options in Inquisition were gay men, real life gay men would still be getting screwed over, because BioWare does not exist in a vacuum, and one game fixes nothing.

 

When BioWare gets publicity and praise for championing the cause of "inclusion in video games", yes, I am damn well going to criticise them.

 

I will not be "grateful" to a company for managing the apparently miraculous feat of recognising that my dollar is worth as much as a straight person's, anymore than I am "grateful" to random pedestrians for not punching me in the face.

 

What's the point of compalining about the LI situation in Inquisition if literally no LI setup would make you happy?

[TheJediSaint]

Someone things the world owes them.

That someone is wrong.  The world owes me.

[SofaJockey]

With edits to make the point:

 

I am talking about gay male people. Real homosexual men who live in a world where the vast majority of media either ignores them outright at best, or viciously mocks them with stereotypes at worst.

 

Yes, gay men are being screwed over. [by] the world at large. Yes, that's an injustice that I dearly hope will ease in time.

Yes, gay men are being screwed over [by] BioWare. No. BioWare stand out as an inclusive game studio. And don't make judgements until you have played the characters.

 

Raging at the world. Fair point.

Raging at BioWare. Unreasonable.

 

EDIT: More.

...When BioWare gets publicity and praise for championing the cause of "inclusion in video games", yes, I am damn well going to criticise them.

 

BioWare gets considerable criticism and even hate (albeit from quarters whose opinions I do not respect).

I don't believe they are seeking that opprobrium for martyr-like marketing reasons but because it's the right thing to do.

 

To target further hate in BioWare's direction only serves to diminish your arguments and positions you

alongside the haters that you despise. Don't do it. It's not clever and it's not fair even if your overall cause is just.

[Wildecarde]

If anyone is under the illusion of being "owed" something by the world, it's not any members of a minority that can't legally marry in most countries, and has had their very existence declared a crime in at least 81 of those.

[carlo angelo]

I thought we've been through this drama already?

 

We bitched, tears were shed, there's not much else we could do, we move on.

[TheJediSaint]

If anyone is under the illusion of being "owed" something by the world, it's not any members of a minority that can't legally marry in most countries, and has had their very existence declared a crime in at least 81 of those.

And Bioware's responsible for that, how?

[Willowhugger]

I may do something I've never done before and also do a Female Mage Playthrough with a Male Romance. Mostly because I like Cullen's romance with Amell Mage even if it never took off.

 

However, as I mentioned in another thread, I worry it'd be this.

 

[Ceoldoren]

I thought we've been through this drama already?

 

We bitched, tears were shed, there's not much else we could do, we move on.

This

 

I want to see another bi/gay male as much as the next gay/bi guy. But throwing a fit and getting angry at Bioware will do nothing.

[Zarathiel]

Ignore and report, people. Ignore and report.

[Ray561]

If anyone is under the illusion of being "owed" something by the world, it's not any members of a minority that can't legally marry in most countries, and has had their very existence declared a crime in at least 81 of those.

this is not the place to complain about it so do it some other place.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think the issue could be handled more gently, but it's fair enough that Bioware's treatment of gay men has not been great. There have only been two games where gay men have had more than one romance option, DA2 and ME3. In both cases, at least one demographic had more options still. It's very rare to find gay males in-world in Bioware games that are not romances. In fact, less so than some other studio's games. (Borderlands 2, Skyrim, New Vegas) The few times it's happened, it needed to be stated by devs outside of the games to be made clear. 

 

It's definitely nice that Bioware is taking a more progressive stance than some studios, but they could handle it better. Their record isn't mind blowingly wonderful and could definitely improve. I understand asking to acknowledge that they're one of a handful of more progressive studios, but to act as if we should be kissing their feet for the progress is going too far. I am thankful that Bioware is making an effort but, yes, I think they should keep making an effort to do better than they have thus far.

[Wildecarde]

Where did I say that such a set-up would make me unhappy? Even just having a truly equal set-up would make me extremely happy. But it would still not be "fair". Things will never be fair. The scales are already unbalanced by the millennia of unfairness that have gone before. It is possible to be happy in a situation while still recognising that it is unfair.

 

As for BioWare standing out as "inclusive", that is only because they are literally the only ones making the effort at all. And no, it's not good enough. Just because everyone else fails doesn't make it okay for BioWare to fail slightly less.

 

Equal treatment is the bare minimum I expect; not just in video games, but in every aspect of life.

[Ianamus]

I think the issue could be handled more gently, but it's fair enough that Bioware's treatment of gay men has not been great. There have only been two games where gay men have had more than one romance option, DA2 and ME3. In both cases, at least one demographic had more options still. It's very rare to find gay males in-world in Bioware games that are not romances. In fact, less so than some other studio's games. (Borderlands 2, Skyrim, New Vegas) The few times it's happened, it needed to be stated by devs outside of the games to be made clear. 

 

It's definitely nice that Bioware is taking a more progressive stance than some studios, but they could handle it better. Their record isn't mind blowingly wonderful and could definitely improve. I understand asking to acknowledge that they're one of a handful of more progressive studios, but to act as if we should be kissing their feet for the progress is going too far. I am thankful that Bioware is making an effort but, yes, I think they should keep making an effort to do better than they have thus far.

 

It's ridiculous to complain about all of that just before Inquisition is released though. We have no idea how many gay NPC's there will be in the game.

[Ray561]

I think the issue could be handled more gently, but it's fair enough that Bioware's treatment of gay men has not been great. There have only been two games where gay men have had more than one romance option, DA2 and ME3. In both cases, at least one demographic had more options still. It's very rare to find gay males in-world in Bioware games that are not romances. In fact, less so than some other studio's games. (Borderlands 2, Skyrim, New Vegas) The few times it's happened, it needed to be stated by devs outside of the games to be made clear. 

 

It's definitely nice that Bioware is taking a more progressive stance than some studios, but they could handle it better. Their record isn't mind blowingly wonderful and could definitely improve. I understand asking to acknowledge that they're one of a handful of more progressive studios, but to act as if we should be kissing their feet for the progress is going too far. I am thankful that Bioware is making an effort but, yes, I think they should keep making an effort to do better than they have thus far.

It think they should have taken a more  suddle approach and just announced Sara and Dorian as if it was busness as usual an not a hey look at us we got gay companions

[Pierce Miller]

I am not talking about "gay male inquisitors", for crying out loud.

 

I am talking about gay male people. Real homosexual men who live in a world where the vast majority of media either ignores them outright at best, or viciously mocks them with stereotypes at worst.

 

Yes, gay men are being screwed over. Not just by BioWare, but the world at large.

So you're complaining about the injustices of the world on a forum about videogames, Please leave and re-evaluate your life.

[Ianamus]

Where did I say that such a set-up would make me unhappy? Even just having a truly equal set-up would make me extremely happy. But it would still not be "fair". Things will never be fair. The scales are already unbalanced by the millennia of unfairness that have gone before. It is possible to be happy in a situation while still recognising that it is unfair.

 

"If ALL the options in Inquisition were gay men, real life gay men would still be getting screwed over, because BioWare does not exist in a vacuum, and one game fixes nothing."

 

You made it quite clear. Even if Inquisition had a hundred male/male LI's and all of the male NPC's were shirtless lumberjacks gay players who buy Inquisition are still "getting screwed over".

[Wildecarde]

Where in that post did I say I BioWare was responsible for the state of the world at large?

 

I was addressing the accusation of thinking I am "owed" anything, and that is all I was addressing.

 

I don't put any words in your mouth. At the very least, you could extend me the same courtesy.

[Wildecarde]

You could also at least finish reading my posts. Seriously, they are not very long.

[Ray561]

So you're complaining about the injustices of the world on a forum about videogames, Please leave and re-evaluate your life.

I've already reported him for going off topic and bring real world problem in were they have no place.

[carlo angelo]

Maybe it's because I've always bought and played BioWare games more than any other company, but with what I've seen from other gaming companies and other video games, they could do a lot worse. I mean, a hell of a lot worse.

 

But I agree with Nocte ad Mortem that there are better ways to discuss inclusivity than express distaste in the forums. These guys do listen. And Inquisition had been in development for so long that during the conceptualisation stages, they just weren't aware of what some of us may be pointing out now.

 

The game isn't out yet and the last character to be romanced hasn't been announced, so I'd refrain being emotional about it... at least, not on the forums, and not at the developers.