4203 réponses à ce sujet

[Wildecarde]

I post because I want to. Whether or not you want to read my posts is pretty much irrelevant to me.

[daveliam]

I understand. It just seems that sometimes fans become so harsh they are not being critical anymore but outright ungrateful. Of course, I'm not saying everyone acts like that, but some sure do. I'm sorry for Solas, I myself was expecting him to be race gated bi, rather then straight. That would surely give even options for everyone considering you're willing to play the required race.

 

I think that anyone who calls Bioware bigoted is incorrect.  However, challenging Bioware to continue to push the envelope and expressing calm, yet disappointed sentiments when it doesn't happen again is hardly being ungrateful.  I think that one of the biggest reasons that Bioware is so inclusive is because they have a large LGBT (and ally) fanbase who consistently brings these concerns to their attention. 

[Ynqve]

Guys, I'm not looking to get a rise out of anyone. I just want an honest to the gods explanation of why you think that way, because I genuinely don't understand. If you explain, maybe I will understand your position better.

 

It's pretty obvious isn't it? There are a lot of LGBT people in the world. They deserve to be represented in our media and not get swept under a rug because some people find their existence "uncomfortable".

[Lee80]

Saying that others deserve to die for disagreeing with you is not constructive feedback
Or acting bratty and hysterical, really

I haven't seen that, but I'm fairly sure the bulk of the posters are far more mature then that.  

[daveliam]

I'm not very good at making points, but I'll do my best.

 

It's about being inclusive, up until about 10 years ago. Gay romances in...pretty much any form of media were unheard of. It just didn't happen, most are grateful for the strides that have been made, because we've come a LONG way in the last decade or so. But that doesn't mean it's enough, I personally will not be happy until we're all equal, in both rights and representation.

 

Well said Ceoldoren.  This is exactly how I feel as well!

 

 

I haven't seen that, but I'm fairly sure the bulk of the posters are far more mature then that.  

 

It's just one really, really toxic poster who has a history of antagonistic posting.  It's not fair of the poster that you quoted to paint us all with that brush.

[Pierce Miller]

I post because I want to. Whether or not you want to read my posts is pretty much irrelevant to me.

that makes it impossible to sympathise.

[AresKeith]

Oh look, someone wants to play Devil's Pedant.

By that logic, slavery should never have been abolished, because, strictly speaking, society didn't need to do it.

Plaintiff?

[Kingthlayer]

Nocte doesn't need us to defend him, he's shown he's perfectly capable of defending himself. 

 

and Kingslayer has always seemed like a troll, nothing new there.

 

I'm a troll because I don't spend all day fantasizing about having sex with fictional characters and prewhining about characters that may or may not be a LI?

 

That's quite rich to be honest.

 

But it's expected to be honest, when you're the minority poster, and on this website the minority is people who view romance as minor and not a major feature, you're always considered a troll.  It just shows how limited the average forum poster is.

[Zarathiel]

Pessimist panda to the end. 

 

This explains the strange sense of deja vu I've been feeling.

[ClassicBox]

If people are more concerned with the way I state my opinion than the merit of my actual points, then they aren't worth my time, or the oxygen required to keep their brains functioning.

 

Do you seriously think I have any intention of swaying people to my side? It's not my first time on the internet.

I understand you aren't happy. No one (at least for the most part) is saying that you are being treated equally in the real world. And it would be great if Bioware presented equal options in their game for everyone. No one is saying that voicing your concerns and or opinions (i.e that they should be equal) is bad. But Bioware is progressive and they are trying. Trying harder than a lot of companies have or ever will. That does not mean, again, to stop voicing for equality. That does not mean it is okay for you to get less options in Bioware games. But insulting them and raging is not anyway to get someone to consider your opinion. Insulting people will not get them to listen to you. People shouting angrily at Bioware or other progressive companies at the top of their lungs is certainly not how the first 2 gay companions have made it in to this game. People (again for the most part, can't speak for everyone) do not have a problem with your concerns. But insulting them every 5 seconds is not going to get you very far. There are great people who voice their concerns in a respectful manner (shout out to Nocte ad Mortem) that people enjoy hearing from. Please re-evaluate how you go about this. : )

[TheJediSaint]

I'm a troll because I don't spend all day fantasizing about having sex with fictional characters and prewhining about characters that may or may not be a LI?

 

That's quite rich to be honest.

 

But it's expected to be honest, when you're the minority poster, and on this website the minority is people who view romance as minor and not a major feature, you're always considered a troll.  It just shows how limited the average forum poster is.

I don't think it's viewing romance as minor that makes you a troll.  It's demeaning people who are more invested in romances than you that make you a troll.

[Ceoldoren]

I don't think it's viewing romance as minor that makes you a troll.  It's demeaning people who are more invested in romances than you that make you a troll.

Exactly that.

[daveliam]

I'm a troll because I don't spend all day fantasizing about having sex with fictional characters and prewhining about characters that may or may not be a LI?

 

That's quite rich to be honest.

 

But it's expected to be honest, when you're the minority poster, and on this website the minority is people who view romance as minor and not a major feature, you're always considered a troll.  It just shows how limited the average forum poster is.

 

No, it's not because of the ideas that you talk about.  It's about how dismissive and rude you are about people who enjoy the romance content.  A perfect example is right in this post. 

 

So because I like romance content in these games, I "spend all day fantasizing about having sex with fictional characters".  If you can't see that this is a rude and antagonistic statement, then that's probably the problem.

[Ajna]

The legendary troll?

[Chari]

I haven't seen that, but I'm fairly sure the bulk of the posters are far more mature then that.

Here they are. Mostly. Because trolls and brats get banned, thankfully
In other places like Tumblr... Mmm, it's a mess
I just like to remind people that we have more than we think we do and appreciate it at least a bit. After all one day it all might be gone

[Wildecarde]

I'm sure someone will fill you in.

[AresKeith]

I'm lost, where is this coming from ?

To the people who found out who he is

[Vapaa]

 

It's certainly been getting better, but it's still not great.  I think a lot of gay men were really thrilled that everyone would have the same amount of choices (3 each), including us.  Instead, we've got a straight Solas and likely a bisexual Vivienne coming, which means that everyone will get 3 choices.......except for us.  I think that this is where the frustration lies.

 

I see it mostly as an unfortunate consequence, I think Bioware wanted to add some special extras on top of the equalitarian 2/2/2; romances that explore more specific themes. But in the end, it just amounts of some demographics getting the short end of the stick, again. Of course Bioware's stance is "if there's options for everyone, then it's good enough", but I think they're undermining the value of equal options. Especially if the unbalance goes always in the same direction, it just breeds resentement and bitterness and even cockiness from jerks and fuels the feeling that maintening the statu quo is the right thing to do.

 

Now I understand the will to explore more unique themes, but I don't think it is enough of an excuse to maintain a constently biaised offering of LIs.

 

Also, I don't think Viv is a given, since without Blackwall, gay dwarves would've had only one romance, before Epler helped me have my glorious "told you so" moment worked extra hours to provide the Bullmance to everyone.

[Ceoldoren]

The legendary troll?

 

To the people who found out who he is

And who is he ? 

[Gwydden]

I'm not very good at making points, but I'll do my best.

 

It's about being inclusive, up until about 10 years ago. Gay romances in...pretty much any form of media were unheard of. It just didn't happen, most are grateful for the strides that have been made, because we've come a LONG way in the last decade or so. But that doesn't mean it's enough, I personally will not be happy until we're all equal, in both rights and representation.

It's pretty obvious isn't it? There are a lot of LGBT people in the world. They deserve to be represented in our media and not get swept under a rug because some people find their existence "uncomfortable".

And I agree with that. There is definitely a good deal of discrimination against LGBTQ in many spheres of society, and that is a problem that I want gone as much as anyone else here.

 

What I disagree with is that, for once, LGBTQ are swept under a rug because people find them "uncomfortable". That indeed is a problem, I don't deny that, but I would say the primary reason why there is no more representation for them is that, though there are many LGBTQ around the world, there are many, many more cis straight people. And most of this people simply don't care for LGBTQ content in video games. And frankly, it is unrealistic to expect them to care about complete strangers.

 

My argument is, our society is not heteronormative because people think LGBTQ are gross. It is heteronormative because most people are heteros. Asking game developers, movie directors, and writers to have more inclusivity in their work just for the sake of being inclusive, when they likely are not a minority themselves and are not personally invested in minority issues, well, I think that's an unrealistic expectation.

[TheJediSaint]

And who is he ? 

A rather belligerent poster who got permabanned just before BSN changed to the Bioware Forum.  No one important.

[Ajna]

And who is he ?

Plaintiff, mothers tell their children scary stories about him to make them eat their vegetables...

[Kingthlayer]

I don't think it's viewing romance as minor that makes you a troll.  It's demeaning people who are more invested in romances than you that make you a troll.

 

I don't demean people, just the idea that all romance options have to be "even" or BioWare are catering to straight gamers and leaving the gay gamers in the dark again like every other company.  Or whatever other exaggerations I see around here.  Or in the opposite situation, we'll see straight gamers whine and cry about how they deserve more options because straight while males are by far the most dominant gamer in the world.  Either way Vivienne or Blackwall is going to flood this site with pointless crying and whining.

 

I don't get why people can't just be content with having any romance content at all, everybody here is greedy and selfish and wants to have sex with everyone.

[WildOrchid]

I'm sure someone will fill you in.

 

It's too bad, I used to agree with most of your posts but now you're out of control Isn't there a way to discuss things peacefully without resorting to insults?

[Ceoldoren]

And I agree with that. There is definitely a good deal of discrimination against LGBTQ in many spheres of society, and that is a problem that I want gone as much as anyone else here.

 

What I disagree with is that, for once, LGBTQ are swept under a rug because people find them "uncomfortable". That indeed is a problem, I don't deny that, but I would say the primary reason why there is no more representation for them is that, though there are many LGBTQ around the world, there are many, many more cis straight people. And most of this people simply don't care for LGBTQ content in video games. And frankly, it is unrealistic to expect them to care about complete strangers.

 

My argument is, our society is not heteronormative because people think LGBTQ are gross. It is heteronormative because most people are heteros. Asking game developers, movie directors, and writers to have more inclusivity in their work just for the sake of being inclusive, when they likely are not a minority themselves and are not personally invested in minority issues, well, I think that's an unrealistic expectation.

So because most people are straight, the rest of us should expect to be thrown under the bus for the rest of our lives ?

 

I'm not ok with that, and I will never accept that.