It's too bad, I used to agree with most of your posts but now you're out of control
Isn't there a way to discuss things peacefully without resorting to insults?
Seconded, I actually agree with a lot of what he was saying. I just wish he'd be nicer about it.
I don't demean people, just the idea that all romance options have to be "even" or BioWare are catering to straight gamers and leaving the gay gamers in the dark again like every other company. Or whatever other exaggerations I see around here. Or in the opposite situation, we'll see straight gamers whine and cry about how they deserve more options because straight while males are by far the most dominant gamer in the world. Either way Vivienne or Blackwall is going to flood this site with pointless crying and whining.
I don't get why people can't just be content with having any romance content at all, everybody here is greedy and selfish and wants to have sex with everyone.
So because I like romance content in these games, I "spend all day fantasizing about having sex with fictional characters". If you can't see that this is a rude and antagonistic statement, then that's probably the problem.
Not all people who like romance content are like that, but go to one of these character threads, the majority of the posts are fantasizing about having sex with these characters. I try to go to these threads and want to talk about these characters but that doesn't seem to be the interest of the other posts, it's all about having sex with them.
Or spamming useless gifs, I don't remember when that became the norm on the internet, but it's quite annoying, but that's another topic completely
WildOrchid, I used to think so.
Because not everyone thinks or feels same way as you...
So you are admitting to being greedy and selfish then?
And I agree with that. There is definitely a good deal of discrimination against LGBTQ in many spheres of society, and that is a problem that I want gone as much as anyone else here.
What I disagree with is that, for once, LGBTQ are swept under a rug because people find them "uncomfortable". That indeed is a problem, I don't deny that, but I would say the primary reason why there is no more representation for them is that, though there are many LGBTQ around the world, there are many, many more cis straight people. And most of this people simply don't care for LGBTQ content in video games. And frankly, it is unrealistic to expect them to care about complete strangers.
My argument is, our society is not heteronormative because people think LGBTQ are gross. It is heteronormative because most people are heteros. Asking game developers, movie directors, and writers to have more inclusivity in their work just for the sake of being inclusive, when they likely are not a minority themselves and are not personally invested in minority issues, well, I think that's an unrealistic expectation.
Sure, and that's why we straight cisgendered people need to listen when the LGBT community voice their concerns. Because we tend not to notice when they're underrepresented or are portrayed in a bad way (unless it's obviously homophobic).
Edit: I just want to clarify, I disagree with the non bolded parts. I think the majority should make the effort to invest themselves in minority issues, because I believe that's how you solve them. By reaching out and working together.
I don't demean people, just the idea that all romance options have to be "even" or BioWare are catering to straight gamers and leaving the gay gamers in the dark again like every other company. Or whatever other exaggerations I see around here. Or in the opposite situation, we'll see straight gamers whine and cry about how they deserve more options because straight while males are by far the most dominant gamer in the world. Either way Vivienne or Blackwall is going to flood this site with pointless crying and whining.
I don't get why people can't just be content with having any romance content at all, everybody here is greedy and selfish and wants to have sex with everyone.
If you don't like all this "crying" and "whining", you can very well avoid these particular forums. Or better, any romance forum.
So you are admitting to being greedy and selfish then?
No, she's admitting to having a differing opinion on romances.
So because most people are straight, the rest of us should expect to be thrown under the bus for the rest of our lives ?
I'm not ok with that, and I will never accept that.
I didn't say that.
My point is that a designer of any piece of media/art has no obligation and likely not interest in catering to a minority neither he/she nor anyone he/she is close with belongs to.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, and I don't mean to presume, but here goes another question. Aren't you already affected by the fact that most people are straight in your real life? In perfectly natural and unavoidable ways, such as a random person you are interested in not being attracted to your gender. Why does that become unacceptable when it comes to video games?
I... actually agree with this oneI try to go to these threads and want to talk about these characters but that doesn't seem to be the interest of the other posts, it's all about having sex with them.
Or spamming useless gifs, I don't remember when that became the norm on the internet, but it's quite annoying, but that's another topic completely
I didn't say that.
My point is that a designer of any piece of media/art has no obligation and likely not interest in catering to a minority neither he/she nor anyone he/she is close with belongs to.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, and I don't mean to presume, but here goes another question. Aren't you already affected by the fact that most people are straight in your real life? In perfectly natural and unavoidable ways, such as a random person you are interested in not being attracted to your gender. Why does that become unacceptable when it comes to video games?
Because what happens in a video game is not "perfectly natural and unavoidable" it's a game. The way it's made and the things show in it can be changed. And the fact that my real life is already affected is why I want it to change in media. Because it can be changed, it can be made equal for everyone.
I'm not very good at making points, but I'll do my best.
It's about being inclusive, up until about 10 years ago. Gay romances in...pretty much any form of media were unheard of. It just didn't happen, most are grateful for the strides that have been made, because we've come a LONG way in the last decade or so. But that doesn't mean it's enough, I personally will not be happy until we're all equal, in both rights and representation.
And that change doesn't happen over night. It's gradual.
Ten years ago, I was just a kid in school who discovered slash fanfiction online. And I thought it was so outrageous. "Men can actually have a relationship with another man? That's so crazy!". But it was sort of great in a way that it brought a strange sense of comfort when I was uncovering some... feelings I thought were off for a preadolescent boy. Before long, I was reading amateur original stories on fictionpress and hiding my tracks as if I was doing crack cocaine on the Internet. But where I'm going with this is that it starts from the ground up and these people who wrote these things have gone on to better things and some have published their own (better written) fiction. Same with games, I think. You've got a newer generation of people who are entering the industry and they most likely have a mind for inclusivity than the generation before it- this is just gaming companies in general, but with BioWare, I'd say they're ahead than other gaming companies in this sense.
I'm a little lost here, and I'd appreciate some clarification if you wouldn't mind. Is it Bioware? The BSN users? Or the inherent inequality in life that has robbed you of your faith?Congratulations, you got me!
I just wanted to annoy the scumbags who robbed me of my faith in humanity, one last time.
Nocte coddles you because he believes there's still hope for improvement. I've been trying to get him to pull out, for his own good.
I think one of the main reason theirs not a lot of GLBT representation in games is some writers may feel they can't to a gay or even bi Character Justice the last thing anyone would want is a character who is a bad representation especially with the way the general gaming community is with there death threats.
i'm glade i don't work in the game industry with the way some developers have been treated
I always liked romance threads. They always make good material for my jokes. And the best part? The people who frequent the threads actually find them funny.
"Ahead of other gaming companies" is a pretty low bar.
If I came first in a race where everyone else tripped and fell on their faces, I wouldn't brag about it.
And who is he ?
He's a member of the forums that was banned before, for similar reasons as tonight. Most people here will not respond well, but I've known him for years outside of the BSN. He's actually the one that introduced me and my boyfriend to Bioware games, as it turns out. And he had a lot of praise for them back then. I don't agree with how he's handling this and he knows that, but he is a good person that just has put up with enough concerning gay issues that it's difficult for him to deal with it any other way right now. I understand people being annoyed, especially because they have no frame of reference for where his anger is coming from. I wish he wouldn't address this so aggressively, because he is an intelligent person with a lot of good points to make, and that's getting lost. But, like I have hope that Bioware will do better, I have hope that my pessimist panda friend will do better. Call me ever the optimist. lol
He will be annoyed with me for saying this if he isn't banned by time he gets back, but he'll get over it. 
And that change doesn't happen over night. It's gradual.
Ten years ago, I was just a kid in school who discovered slash fanfiction online. And I thought it was so outrageous. "Men can actually have a relationship with another man? That's so crazy!". But it was sort of great in a way that it brought a strange sense of comfort when I was uncovering some... feelings I thought were off for a preadolescent boy. Before long, I was reading amateur original stories on fictionpress and hiding my tracks as if I was doing crack cocaine on the Internet. But where I'm going with this is that it starts from the ground up and these people who wrote these things have gone on to better things and some have published their own (better written) fiction. Same with games, I think. You've got a newer generation of people who are entering the industry and they most likely have a mind for inclusivity than the generation before it- this is just gaming companies in general, but with BioWare, I'd say they're ahead than other gaming companies in this sense.
Oh they totally are. I'm not arguing for the "Bioware is bad because they're not doing enough for my orientation !" camp. I'm very, very grateful for what Bioware has done so far. But more can be done, more should be done.
If you don't like all this "crying" and "whining", you can very well avoid these particular forums. Or better, any romance forum.
I am interested in these characters and I do want to know who is the final option between Blackwall and Vivienne. I'd rather not have to avoid forums because people can't discuss romance without resorting to prerage over the possibility of numbers not being even.
Sure, and that's why we straight cisgendered people need to listen when the LGBT community voice their concerns. Because we tend not to notice when they're underrepresented or are portrayed in a bad way (unless it's obviously homophobic).
Edit: I just want to clarify, I disagree with the non bolded parts. I think the majority should make the effort to invest themselves in minority issues, because I believe that's how you solve them. By reaching out and working together.
Should, as in, it is the moral thing to do? Totally. Should, as in, they are morally obligated to, and if they don't do it there's clearly something wrong with them? Not so much.
Maybe I don't really to this issue because I think art and the media should enjoy full artistic freedom instead of being scrutinized for offensive portrayals. I have never cared much about those. I have never cared about stereotypes or lack of representation of Hispanics in the media, anymore than I care about people thinking I'm Mexican and saying that surely I like spicy food.
I mean, I cringed when I heard about Spiderman being made Hispanic in one of the comics, and I don't even read them. But that's an altogether different matter for another day.
I always liked romance threads. They always make good material for my jokes. And the best part? The people who frequent the threads actually find them funny.
Not all people who like romance content are like that, but go to one of these character threads, the majority of the posts are fantasizing about having sex with these characters. I try to go to these threads and want to talk about these characters but that doesn't seem to be the interest of the other posts, it's all about having sex with them.
Or spamming useless gifs, I don't remember when that became the norm on the internet, but it's quite annoying, but that's another topic completely
Romance =/= sex. I think you have an incredibly limited or immature view on romance and sex. If I say that I want to romance Blackwall because I find him sexy, that is not the same thing about "fantasizing about having sex" with him. I see very few posts about "having sex" with any character. There are posts about how sexy a character looks. Or how people hope they can romance them.
The only "having sex" posts that I can think of are the #ridethebull ones and the ones about Solas having the Inquisitor's babies. Otherwise, it's not about the physical act of sex. You seem to have difficulty separating the two.
Char, it is a combination of BioWare and BSN users, but certain individuals can definitely take more credit than others.
Of course, that's not to say my real life is peaches and cream.
Directly insulting another poster is totally apropos, but don't bring politics in here!
I'm quoting before I reach the end of the thread, but just going to say that you're pretty much on the ball with that statement. If you want to talk about gay politics in a Bioware game, maybe make your own thread about it, because you're really derailing this thread with all your spew. Go start your own Society for the Promotion of Elvish Welfare thread.
He's a member of the forums that was banned before, for similar reasons as tonight. Most people here will not respond well, but I've known him for years outside of the BSN. He's actually the one that introduced me and my boyfriend to Bioware games, as it turns out. And he had a lot of praise for them back then. I don't agree with how he's handling this and he knows that, but he is a good person that just has put up with enough concerning gay issues that it's difficult for him to deal with it any other way right now. I understand people being annoyed, especially because they have no frame of reference for where his anger is coming from. I wish he wouldn't address this so aggressively, because he is an intelligent person with a lot of good points to make, and that's getting lost. But, like I have hope that Bioware will do better, I have hope that my pessimist panda friend will do better. Call me ever the optimist. lol
He will be annoyed with me for saying this if he isn't banned by time he gets back, but he'll get over it.
I see, it's a shame he's handling this in such an angry manner. He makes some good points.
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