4203 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

There are two things I'd like you to take from this

1) in an ideal world money shouldn't even come into a decision to make LGBTQ people feel like the important parts of the global community that they are. Why should profit be more important than inclusivity? The mind boggles. The world might run on money, but it's driven by people.

Yeah, Marx said something along those lines. Sadly, we do not live in an ideal world, and what the majority wants rules the market. Supply and demand and all that jazz.

2) this is why it's vital that LGBTQ people make their needs known. They are a market of gamers, potential gamers, friends of gamers and if profit really is the answer then people who support equality need to mobilise support for developers who recognise this. It's a long struggle- many companies still don't see women as a viable market for their products, but that doesnt mean it isnt worth fighting for

BioWare is already doing this. Companies like Ubisoft, Blizzard and Capcom still make way more money than they do.

 

Ironically, a game series that has always been very keen on representing everyone and has made a ton of money even before BioWare got around it is The Sims, which is the sixth highest grossing game series ever.

[TheJediSaint]

There are two things I'd like you to take from this

1) in an ideal world money shouldn't even come into a decision to make LGBTQ people feel like the important parts of the global community that they are. Why should profit be more important than inclusivity? The mind boggles. The world might run on money, but it's driven by people.

2) this is why it's vital that LGBTQ people make their needs known. They are a market of gamers, potential gamers, friends of gamers and if profit really is the answer then people who support equality need to mobilise support for developers who recognise this. It's a long struggle- many companies still don't see women as a viable market for their products, but that doesnt mean it isnt worth fighting for

I think from Bioware's perspective, greater inclusivity will lead to greater profits, because it allows them to tap into under-served markets.  Namely, people who aren't straight men like me.  It makes them more competitive in a highly competitive industry.

 

Now on the issue of equal representation, I think focusing just on relative numbers is myopic.  It's a far more complex issue than that.  How important are LGBQT characters to the plot?  How are they portrayed?  Is their more to them than just their sexuality?

[Ray561]

I think people in general need to stop  looking at the number and more about the quality the character represent. 

[Ynqve]

You are half right.  The Q stands for questioning, as in people who are unsure of their sexuality. The term queer (which I hate) usually covers a broad spectrum of non-hetro sexualities and is not listed as a particular sub-group there in. 

 

Ah,my bad! It's queer in my language, I just figured it would be the same 

[Gwydden]

The thing is, we've pointed it out and hoped it would get better every time. And still? I guess it's fair to say we should wait for the last, but past experience doesn't leave us with much hope.

You don't think DAI is an improvement over ME3 and DA2?

[jlb524]

I think people in general need to stop  looking at the number and more about the quality the character represent. 

 

Can't really do that yet.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I'm curious, if Blackwall ends up as the last romance (and bisexual) would that change anyone's feeling about this situation around here?

I would be disappointed because it would still be unbalanced (more male options than female), even if he was bi. 

 

I don't see how that would be a better idea than a bi Vivienne at all.

 

No group hug before my phone battery dies? Not even a small one?

*quick group hug*

[WildOrchid]

I think people in general need to stop  looking at the number and more about the quality the character represent. 

 

You mean like in the old days where everyone was straight.

[daveliam]

Okay, so to fully understand the issue that people are talking about...

 

If there are an equal amount of hetero/******/bi LI's in the game... How are the LGBQT's not being equally represented? And what needs to be done for them to be equally represented?

 

Edit: Apparently h o m o is a bad word?

 

Because there's not an equal amount of options in the game.  Right now, straight women have one more option and it's likely that straight men (and possibly lesbians) will be getting one more too, meaning that gay men will have the least amount again. 

 

I'm curious, if Blackwall ends up as the last romance (and bisexual) would that change anyone's feeling about this situation around here?

 

On a selfish note, I'd be happy.  On a larger LGB concern, not really because then lesbians will be getting the least amount of options and they are the second least represented demographic (To put it quantitatively, they have received the least amount of options in 7 out of 10 of the previous games - "tying" for last with gay men in all of them).

 

No group hug before my phone battery dies? Not even a small one?

 

Oh, okay, fine.  Here's a hug.  You're ruining my crusty, bear-like nature.

[carlo angelo]

Can we have a bloody group hug now or what?!

I'm not a touchy-feely person, so I'll just gently (and awkwardly) pat you and everyone else on the back...

[Gwydden]

Then, the next one up is ME 4 and we all know how well that team represents us, right?

What has the Montreal team done to you? 

[Steelcan]

You mean like in the old days where everyone was straight.

. Well seeing as how that's not what they said...

[WildOrchid]

No group hug before my phone battery dies? Not even a small one?

 

*hugs and cries a lil*

[Fiery Phoenix]

I think people in general need to stop  looking at the number and more about the quality the character represent. 

I think we're all familiar with the kind of quality expected from a BioWare romance by now. It's really not surprising that most are prioritizing quantity over quality.

[Ajna]

Awww out of likes

[Chanda]

We would like to have an equal amount of romance options, consistently, to straight players and we would like to see more LGBT character represented positively in the in-game world outside of the possible LIs. That's basically the request in a nutshell.  

 

Okay. Looking at the chart, it seems that things are pretty equal.

 

Gay men have Dorian and Iron Bull

Lesbians have Sera and Josephine

Hetero men have Cassandra and Josephine

Hetero women have Cullen and Iron Bull

 

Solas is out on his own because he only wants to be with elf girls, so a player has to choose to play as an elf to get him.

 

So other than the odd elf thing, it seems pretty even across the board that everyone has equal representation.

[SofaJockey]

If he had an attitude like yours I dont think anyone would have a problem being polite to him.

 

hmmm, I'm not convinced it's about attitude, it's about upholding a position.

 

To accept there are more LGBT characters now but that full parity has not been achieved is a compromise.

Being better than poor or being almost equal, is not equal.

I prefer the compromise position as a valuable iterative one in society as ignorance often moves at a slower speed,

but that does not mean that driving straight for the desired end goal is not valid nor

that criticising those who fall short, even if they have tried their very best, lacks logic, it's just not a pleasant tactic.

 

To use a Dragon Age metaphor (which would be nice in this thread)

 

It is somewhat akin to Anders blowing up the Chantry to force the Mage/Templar matter to be addressed.

 

Like these quotes from Anders:

 

"The time has come to act. There can be no half measures. There can be no turning back. There can be no peace. [...] I removed the chance of compromise, because there is no compromise. [...] We were already doomed. A quick death now or a slow one later, I rather go down fighting"

 

I killed Anders about as often as I saved him.

 

There is a logical justification for 'blowing op the Chantry/thread' but there being justification is not an excuse (as Anders himself recognises)...

 

 

EDIT - and we may have moved on already - try to write a thoughtful response and 4 pages have gone by... !

[Panda]

Sorry, I have hard time counting Solas as option for straight females since he's option for only 25% of them. He sure isn't romance option for my qunari ladys.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I'm curious, if Blackwall ends up as the last romance (and bisexual) would that change anyone's feeling about this situation around here?

I'm going to feel horrible that lesbians are getting left shorted again, because that's an equally bad situation as if Vivienne were bisexual. It definitely changes my opinion of how gay males fair in the game, but it is unfortunate that the other side of the coin for gay issues is taking the hit.  

[daveliam]

I think people in general need to stop  looking at the number and more about the quality the character represent. 

 

Two issues with that:

 

1.)  It's subjective.  Some people say that Traynor's romance was the worst romance in ME 3.  Some people live and die by her romance. 

 

and

 

2.)  We can't really discuss the quality of romances that no one has played yet.  That discussion will happen once we get access to the stories. 

[AresKeith]

You mean like in the old days where everyone was straight.

That's kinda unfair

[Ianamus]

Well, to be fair, I've been "pointing it out and hoping that the next game will do better in this regard" for over a decade.  And, yes, I realize that there is still a possibility that straight men might be "tied for the least" options as well.  And, if so, it will be the 2nd time in 11 games where it happens.  If it happens to gay men too, then it will be the 11th time in 11 games where it happens.  That's really my point.  I just want to see a game where we do not have the least options.  And it's looking unlikely that DA: I will be that game.  Then, the next one up is ME 4 and we all know how well that team represents us, right?  It's not the end of the world, clearly, but it just stinks because I had allowed myself to get my hopes up that either Solas or Blackwall would our third option and now it's probably not going to happen.

 

I don't think the situation for gay male players in Inquisition is anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be. Before the announcement of Solas as an LI they were the only demographic to have two companion LI's (except for bisexuals, obviously), and even now they are the only demographic who have two companion Li's as any race, at least that we are aware of.

 

Of course I don't draw much distinction between companion LI and advisor Li myself, but some people have been quite vocal in the past that to them getting to take their LI's everywhere with them is the most important aspect of Bioware romances, and that they would always favour companion romances over advisor ones. To them it may seem that the gay male players get the best deal with regards to romances in Inquisition.

 

And this is assuming Blackwall isn't a same-gender LI.

[Char]

No group hug before my phone battery dies? Not even a small one?

*hugs!!*



I'm getting better at being a huggy person with age. I still have the occasional friend who will blindside me and make me do my frozen rabbit impression, but generally I'm good nowadays

[Chanda]

You know, I think it's the hetero people that are getting the short end of the stick, because the other option for them is an ADVISOR that can't go out adventuring with you.

[TheJediSaint]

You know, I think it's the hetero people that are getting the short end of the stick, because the other option for them is an ADVISOR that can't go out adventuring with you.

It helps that Josephine is smoking hot.

 

 

Edit:  Also, Cullen is Cullen.