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[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

"I want equality in games, so that's why I support making things unequal"

 

ROMANCE IS ALL! ALL IS ROMANCE!

[LiaraShepard]

"I want equality in games, so that's why I support making things unequal"

 

things are already unequal. Do you want them to be even more uneven with making the remaining LI straight again? 

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

You only play as female lesbians though... lol... you can't speak for straight men. 

I play as straight male and lesbian female so actually yeah I can, my canon playthroughs are the female ones 

[BabyFratelli]

"I want equality in games, so that's why I support making things unequal"

 

That's not what they're saying. They're saying that ideally everyone would have equal options, but since in DAI that can't be the case (because of math) straight people getting one less option when they've typically gotten more throughout gaming history would probably be the next best thing.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

There's sadly no way they could go about the last LI without giving straight women (and quite possibly straight men) more options than gay men or lesbian women. Again.

 

Really, this is why I'm skeptical of the diverse sexualities thing so many people want. It always benefits straight people more. No wonder why I see so many straight people asking for the removal of all bisexual - they almost got the same amount of options in DA2, for once!

That's why I can't support set sexualities. I don't trust that it won't always mean more options for straight people. Even in DA2, it ended up meaning that.

[Who Knows]

That's not what they're saying. They're saying that ideally everyone would have equal options, but since in DAI that can't be the case (because of math) straight people getting one less option when they've typically gotten more throughout gaming history would probably be the next best thing.

Yea. My preferred situation would be everyone (among the monosexuals) getting the same amount of options. But if there has to be unequalness, I'd like to see gays get more options for a change...for pretty much the first time ever.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Well, considering we already know that there won't be equality this go around, all we can do IS shift the damn imbalance.

 

No, we don't. That's not all we "can" do. If equality is what's really being sought here, then its equality that should be whats settled for, and not having what's been called a problem before, vaulted onto others with the mindset of "well it ain't my problem now".

 

Two wrongs do not make a right, and I don't think you can claim the banner of "we're fighting for equal treatment and fairness", then turn around and go "I don't care if straight people get screwed cause they had it coming."

 

That's not equality, that's supremacists, "an advocate of the supremacy of a particular group, especially one determined by race or sex."

 

I urge you people not to do this, to keep your heads about you even in the face of disappointment, and not throw away everything you've said you believe in, just for an easy and problem generating fix now.

 

Look between dragon age origins and dragon age inquisition, how much progress has already been made. Do you really want to throw all of that aside, just to take the easy route and betray what you've said you stood for?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Threads like these make me extra glad I rarely if ever pursue waifus.

 

Too much investment leads to pain if things don't go EXACTLY your way.

[Icy Magebane]

I don't think that's the case for more posters. Most LGB posters I've seen favor equal options across the board. Most of us don't want Bioware to start taking away options from straight people to make up the gap that exists. We want it to be water under the bridge and move forward with equal options for everyone.

 

But that's not happening. Bioware keeps making the options unequal.. and LGB players keep taking the hit. If there are going to be unbalanced options, it's not the same when straight players keep getting those slots. Straight men have over three times as many options to them, to date, as lesbians. The same is true for straight women over gay men, over three three times as many. I'm not saying I'm happy if straight people get less, or that I don't care that they're disappointed, but it's just not the same situation. You've had three times as many options. Sharing the extra slots for a change is not really asking that much, I think, if Bioware refuses to make things even, which is all most people are asking for.

A bisexual Blackwall and gated Cullen was said to be unfair on the grounds that even though both lesbians and straight men would both be limited to 2 LIs, only the lesbians mattered.  Short of redoing all of the romances and making everyone bi and ungated, I don't see a way to fix this problem.  I certainly don't think straight male gamers deserve some kind of punishment for having been favored in the past...  I think I'm being more than generous when I am willing to accept 2 straight male romances and 3 gay ones.  The imbalance between lesbians and straight females has already been blown way out of proportion due to the Solas reveal, so there's little that can be done about that... on the other hand, he is elf only so it's not like every straight female would even be able to take advantage of this...

[WildOrchid]

Yea. My preferred situation would be everyone (among the monosexuals) getting the same amount of options. But if there has to be unequalness, I'd like to see gays get more options for a change...for pretty much the first time ever.

 

Yeah.... just once.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

Every gender/race/sexuality will get at most 2 options that is for certain though some will get 3 options at most. I see Vivienne being the last option and she will be Bi and gated to just humans giving straight male humans, lesbian female humans and straight female elves 3 options each while everyone else has 2 each.

[SofaJockey]

I'm much more convinced now of the case for equal numbers than I was a couple of days ago after some great points on this thread.

 

And we were all even after 6 LI's revealed: 2 LG, 2 Bi, 2 Str - so 2 each (further role-play options aside).

(And I know there are debates about whether Josie is a 'proper' LI, that's just a consequence of not having an even no of gender companions.)

 

So where should BioWare have gone with this?
The only way to have rounded out the last 2 LI's was for one more male and one more female LI, both Bi.

 

That would have left us with 2 LG, 4 Bi, 2 Str - or 3 each.

 

But BioWare have resisted creating Bi characters for the sake of it, which smack of playsexualism like DA2 or even tokenism,

something they have tried to get away from.

 

So I think stories have driven the decisions, which may include at least one character, maybe more, having been lost in the development process.

 

Whatever outcome is announced will provide an third choice (or only 2 choices) for some, there's no getting around that.

 

I do think the goal remains to have an equal balance.

That's not going to happen this time. We could debate whether 2/3 counts as 'close'.

 

But beyond making the point about this matter very clear on the forums, which is certainly happening here,

I would struggle to endorse raging at BioWare who are very inclusive (admittedly within a gaming sector where the bar is very low).

[Cainhurst Crow]

things are already unequal. Do you want them to be even more uneven with making the remaining LI straight again? 

 

What I would like is equality. The only thing is I'm not willing to betray my pursuit of equality just for the sake of getting my own personal preference advanced.

 

Because that is counter to the very idea of being equal.

[BabyFratelli]

*snip*

 

Look between dragon age origins and dragon age inquisition, how much progress has already been made. Do you really want to throw all of that aside, just to take the easy route and betray what you've said you stood for?

 

Literally no one is saying this. You're getting very carried away with your own inaccurate perception of what is happening in this thread. Go back and read the comments more clearly.

[Trophonius]

I don't think I can go back to the playersexuality system. It was mortifying how they handled the companion sexualities in that one. First, only Isabela and Anders were considered legitimately bisexual (or Anders' case, situational); then now apparently everyone is? Even if it means us gay men will have to finish last again with a bisexual Vivienne, I would considerably prefer to have companions like Dorian and Sera any time of the day.

[Hellion Rex]

No, we don't. That's not all we "can" do. If equality is what's really being sought here, then its equality that should be whats settled for, and not having what's been called a problem before, vaulted onto others with the mindset of "well it ain't my problem now".

 

Two wrongs do not make a right, and I don't think you can claim the banner of "we're fighting for equal treatment and fairness", then turn around and go "I don't care if straight people get screwed cause they had it coming."

 

That's not equality, that's supremacists, "an advocate of the supremacy of a particular group, especially one determined by race or sex."

 

I urge you people not to do this, to keep your heads about you even in the face of disappointment, and not throw away everything you've said you believe in, just for an easy and problem generating fix now.

 

Look between dragon age origins and dragon age inquisition, how much progress has already been made. Do you really want to throw all of that aside, just to take the easy route and betray what you've said you stood for?

Excuse me? First of all, I am merely talking about in Inquistion, not what lies beyond. What I am saying is that since we know in Inquisition that they will not be equal, again. To that end, all we can do is shift the imbalance FOR THIS GAME. I have not once advocated making straight people suffer and make them take less options, but I am sure as hell allowed to voice my rage that once again, lesbians and gays get screwed over. So don't you dare tell me that I cannot fight for equal treatment and fairness. And you don't need to tell me how to fight the battle for representation and equality, cause I sure as hell have been fighting that war for my entire life.

[Steelcan]

But was it supposed to be "everyone gets 2 no matter what race/gender/sexual orientation" from the beginning?

no, bioWare never said they intended to offer an equal selection to all sexualities

[Nocte ad Mortem]

A bisexual Blackwall and gated Cullen was said to be unfair on the grounds that even though both lesbians and straight men would both be limited to 2 LIs, only the lesbians mattered.  Short of redoing all of the romances and making everyone bi and ungated, I don't see a way to fix this problem.  I certainly don't think straight male gamers deserve some kind of punishment for having been favored in the past...  I think I'm being more than generous when I am willing to accept 2 straight male romances and 3 gay ones.  The imbalance between lesbians and straight females has already been blown way out of proportion due to the Solas reveal, so there's little that can be done about that... on the other hand, he is elf only so it's not like every straight female would even be able to take advantage of this...

Do you think lesbian and gay players have been "punished" all this time? Is it a punishment in every game when we get less options? It's not that we're saying we want straight people to be punished, it's that we're saying we want to sometimes be in the position they've been in every time, if Bioware absolutely refuses to give us all equal options. I do not support less options for straight people and I will keep saying it's not what I want. I want everyone to get equal options and I'm disappointed in Bioware for constantly refusing to do this. Regardless who gets less, it's not my ideal and I want it to change. However, what's "fair" in the long terms is to switch up who gets the extras, if they insist on making them. That means sometimes straight people get them, yes, but it also means sometimes they don't. That's fair.

[devSin]

But was it supposed to be "everyone gets 2 no matter what race/gender/sexual orientation" from the beginning?

Race has nothing to do with it (according to David, the fantasy race you elect to play as is not weighted the same as gender and sexuality).

Allan hinted that not everyone used to get two options, so my current guess is that gay men will get 2 (they used to only get 1 when Iron Bull was gated), while everyone else has access to up to 3 (and if the race-gated female is tied to humans, it's essentially the same as being not gated, at least in terms of accessibility).

(I base this only on the symmetry of everyone having access to 2 companion romances, though.)

[HiroVoid]

no, bioWare never said they intended to offer an equal selection to all sexualities

The statement's referring to everyone getting at least two LI's.  Not that it would be equal.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Yea. My preferred situation would be everyone (among the monosexuals) getting the same amount of options. But if there has to be unequalness, I'd like to see gays get more options for a change...for pretty much the first time ever.

 

This attitude is not different form someone looking at an imbalance against gay people and going "eh, its good enough." It's complacency, plain and simple.

 

If an imbalance is bad, it is bad universally. Any sort of context to justify it can't erase the fact that this is a bad thing. That having one group valued above the others simply because they are, is wrong.

 

Do a thought experiment, replace the gay people with straight people and advocate your same stance. Does it still pass? Would you stand for it if it was being advocated by a group you weren't a part of?

 

If the answer is no, then that should damn well tell you its not a good idea.

[LiaraShepard]

What I would like is equality. The only thing is I'm not willing to betray my pursuit of equality just for the sake of getting my own personal preference advanced.

 

Because that is counter to the very idea of being equal.

 

I've never said I'm against equality. I would have liked to see 2 homosexuals, two straight people and four bisexuals, and I said that more than one time in this forum. But they haven't gave that to us by making Solas straight. So at least the remaining LI should be gay/lesbian..not bisexual or straight. Straight people were always favored in history. And they seem to be favored in DAI again. It's not hypocritical to want more homosexual options than straight options one time if Bioware plans to make things unequal, because when previous games had been unequal it were always the straight people who got more options. 

[Milan92]

They said they would try to give everyone equal options when it came to sexuality.

But not races. So its possible a dwarf can only have 1 option while humans have three.