4203 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Literally no one is saying this. You're getting very carried away with your own inaccurate perception of what is happening in this thread. Go back and read the comments more clearly.

yes, I'm all for equal options, but since they won't give them to us in this game, I support more homosexual options.

Well, considering we already know that there won't be equality this go around, all we can do IS shift the damn imbalance.

I'm a straight male and even I don't care if straight males get the short end since we have been favored in past games

[Hellion Rex]

They said they would try to give everyone equal options when it came to sexuality.
 

Well, we know how that turned out now.

[BabyFratelli]

This attitude is not different form someone looking at an imbalance against gay people and going "eh, its good enough." It's complacency, plain and simple.

 

If an imbalance is bad, it is bad universally. Any sort of context to justify it can't erase the fact that this is a bad thing. That having one group valued above the others simply because they are, is wrong.

 

Do a thought experiment, replace the gay people with straight people and advocate your same stance. Does it still pass? Would you stand for it if it was being advocated by a group you weren't a part of?

 

If the answer is no, then that should damn well tell you its not a good idea.

 

Are you being intentionally dense?

[Who Knows]

This attitude is not different form someone looking at an imbalance against gay people and going "eh, its good enough." It's complacency, plain and simple.

 

If an imbalance is bad, it is bad universally. Any sort of context to justify it can't erase the fact that this is a bad thing. That having one group valued above the others simply because they are, is wrong.

 

Do a thought experiment, replace the gay people with straight people and advocate your same stance. Does it still pass? Would you stand for it if it was being advocated by a group you weren't a part of?

 

If the answer is no, then that should damn well tell you its not a good idea.

You CAN'T replace gay people with straight people like that. That's the point. Historically straight people have gotten more options for just about everything. It's a false equivalence.

[Milan92]

Well, we know how that turned out now.

I think they meant that they would provide atleast 2 for each.

But yeah...

[Icy Magebane]

Do you think lesbian and gay players have been "punished" all this time? Is it a punishment in every game when we get less options? It's not that we're saying we want straight people to be punished, it's that we're saying we want to sometimes be in the position they've been in every time, if Bioware absolutely refuses to give us all equal options. I do not support less options for straight people and I will keep saying it's not what I want. I want everyone to get equal options and I'm disappointed in Bioware for constantly refusing to do this. Regardless who gets less, it's not my ideal and I want it to change. However, what's "fair" in the long terms is to switch up who gets the extras, if they insist on making them. That means sometimes straight people get them, yes, but it also means sometimes they don't. That's fair.

Perhaps you don't feel that way, but others do and have expressed exactly that.  And like I said, I agreed with a proposal that gave lesbians and straight males 2 LIs, while gay males had 3 and straight females had 3-4 depending on race.  For some reason that wasn't good enough, even though it clearly does not favor straight men. Apparently both lesbians and gay men need to have an advantage or it's not considered a reasonable compromise.  I disagree.  *shrugs*  I don't know what else I can really say about that.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Excuse me? First of all, I am merely talking about in Inquistion, not what lies beyond. What I am saying is that since we know in Inquisition that they will not be equal, again. To that end, all we can do is shift the imbalance FOR THIS GAME. I have not once advocated making straight people suffer and make them take less options, but I am sure as hell allowed to voice my rage that once again, lesbians and gays get screwed over. So don't you dare tell me that I cannot fight for equal treatment and fairness. And you don't need to tell me how to fight the battle for representation and equality, cause I sure as hell have been fighting that war for my entire life.

Then why can you not spot the trap of self-satisfying short cuts?

If things will never be equal in DAI, then really there's no point in talking about it at all. Bioware will decide what bioware decides, and whatever choice they make, bioware will be screwed for equality.

But this attitude of it being acceptable to have imbalance, even in one instance, isn't something to brush off so lightly. It takes one seed for a mighty tree to grow, and one idea to turn into a truly monstrous thing.

[AresKeith]

They said they would try to give everyone equal options when it came to sexuality.

But not races. So its possible a dwarf can only have 1 option while humans have three.

 

 

Well, we know how that turned out now.

 

Well they actually said everyone would have atleast 2 options

 

And outside of Soals where you have to play as a Female Elf, that's still the case

[Hellion Rex]

And outside of Soals where you have to play as a Female Elf, that's still the case

Not gonna lie, I think that is one of the biggest curveballs to come out of this whole mess. I didn't see that coming at all.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

This attitude is not different form someone looking at an imbalance against gay people and going "eh, its good enough." It's complacency, plain and simple.

 

If an imbalance is bad, it is bad universally. Any sort of context to justify it can't erase the fact that this is a bad thing. That having one group valued above the others simply because they are, is wrong.

 

Do a thought experiment, replace the gay people with straight people and advocate your same stance. Does it still pass? Would you stand for it if it was being advocated by a group you weren't a part of?

 

If the answer is no, then that should damn well tell you its not a good idea.

If gay people had gotten three times as many options as straight people in Bioware games, I absolutely would say I didn't mind if they started getting the extras sometimes, if Bioware insisted on continuing to add them. Definitely. I would have no problem with that stance. It's not my ideal, but different people getting the extras is more fair than the same ones always getting them. 

[Maria Caliban]

They said they would try to give everyone equal options when it came to sexuality.

But not races. So its possible a dwarf can only have 1 option while humans have three.

They said they wanted everyone to have options.

That means 'gay characters will have two choices.'

[Cainhurst Crow]

You CAN'T replace gay people with straight people like that. That's the point. Historically straight people have gotten more options for just about everything. It's a false equivalence.

How conventinet that this simple mental exercise can't be done, when it happens to reveal something not so pleasant about your stances.

If its wrong for one people to have gotten more options, then its wrong for anyone to have gotten more options, because otherwise its just targeted discrimination.

The concept of unequal favoritism is whats the root of the problem, not the people it happens to favor at that time because that can change with only the span of a few years. Otherwise all you're doing is trading positions in a never ending play of suffering and misery.

[Icy Magebane]

Not gonna lie, I think that is one of the biggest curveballs to come out of this whole mess. I didn't see that coming at all.

lol... I'm not willing to trust any of my predictions after how that turned out.

[HiroVoid]

Not gonna lie, I think that is one of the biggest curveballs to come out of this whole mess. I didn't see that coming at all.

Yeah.  Surprised me too, but this looks like a case where there's a specific romance story they wanted to tell rather than thinking about how many people can access the romance (since cinematics obviously wasn't a problem.)

[Ynqve]

Wow, this escalated quickly.

 

I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to start this. Can we all calm down a bit and agree that inequality sucks. It's not ok that some get more options and that we're gonna keep fighting until everyone get the same amount of choices? Let's save our energy until we know the who the last romance is and who's gonna be race gated. For all we know, it may be a lesbian Vivienne, and Cullen may be limited to dwarfs. After Solas' reveal, anythings possible.

[TheJediSaint]

But does that mean "everyone", as in no matter what gender and race you are? or everyone in only sexual orientations?

I think the former, but don't take my word as gospel.

[Dova]

Not gonna lie, I think that is one of the biggest curveballs to come out of this whole mess. I didn't see that coming at all.

I would of figured it would of been Varric before him.

[Steelcan]

[WildOrchid]

If Blackwall and Viv were both LI and bi, that would really solve everything.

[LiaraShepard]

If Blackwall and Viv were both LI and bi, that would really solve everything.

 

yes, but it won't happen : (

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Perhaps you don't feel that way, but others do and have expressed exactly that.  And like I said, I agreed with a proposal that gave lesbians and straight males 2 LIs, while gay males had 3 and straight females had 3-4 depending on race.  For some reason that wasn't good enough, even though it clearly does not favor straight men. Apparently both lesbians and gay men need to have an advantage or it's not considered a reasonable compromise.  I disagree.  *shrugs*  I don't know what else I can really say about that.

Well, I'm sorry if someone told you that you deserve to be punished for the situation. It's not any individual straight man's fault. Many straight people advocate the cause for more representation for LGB players and I wouldn't ever want them to be punished because we've had to suffer. 

 

Ideally, I would like everyone to get equal options. Gay men getting 3 options and straight women getting 4 isn't "good enough", for me, because both lesbians and straight men are getting less. What would be "good enough" for me is equal options with generally equal content for each demographic. Whether that's all bi, 2/2/2, 2/4/2, etc. Nothing short of that would be what I'd see as good enough. I'm still against straight people getting less. My only complaint, when there are extras, is that it's not alright to keep giving them only to straight people. It does suck a little more for lesbians, because they've only gotten 11 options over Bioware games, while straight men have gotten in the mid-30s. That doesn't mean I'm alright with straight men getting less and I would vocally give my support for it not continuing, if that were the case. I'm just saying, try to put yourself in the situation lesbians have been in. The only time straight men have ever gotten less is DA2, when Sebastian was an extra for straight women. Just imagine if lesbians had gotten 3 times as many, to date. I feel like then it would be easier to understand why getting less again stings more. Fairness is equality in every game, but if they won't do that, the next best option is changing out who gets the extras, so the overall distribution becomes more even. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

So there are still 2 straight male, 2 straight female, 2 gay male, and 2 gay female options, and 2 bisexual options, all through the magic of multiple characters fitting one category.

So what's all this about bioware not doing things to provide for gay players?

[MCG]

People are so ott when it comes to LGBT here, and that's from both sides of the argument. Those against it are incapable of understanding its inclusion and importance, whilst those for it don't seem to understand why it shouldn't completely over-ride the hetero  .