62 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Aveline's father (Benoit du Lac) was a chevalier. Only nobles can serve as a chevalier.The family had to flee Orlais after their patron was killed. Benoit Du Lac tutored Aveline in the way of the Knight. He spent all he had getting Aveline into King Cailan's service.

 

This.

 

Aveline is a bit like Hawke at the start of DA2, although with a slightly higher social standing. Both come from noble families who no longer hold rank and title, and thus are no longer noble. However in the case of Aveline (unlike Hawke) she managed to get knighted in Cailan's service. While not a noble (there is no indication she holds a title or fiefdom in Ferelden) as a knight she is farther up the social ladder than Hawke, who is really nothing more than a commoner with an interesting family history. 

[Kantr]

Judging by the tweets as they play. Companions will notice if you flirt with someone else while romancing them.

[thehomeworld]

Cheating conseqences would be nice but like we found out over at ME forms its what do you do and what motivated the player? Did the player belive they were cheating or did they belive they were having a one night stand with so and so until their truly wanted lover came a game later? Do you put prelove making dialouge that has the hero stating to the potential lover that, " I'm only doing this with you tonight, we aren't forever here." and depending on the LIs persona they'll go, " Oh hell no we aren't!" and walk out or be like, " Awesome I only wanted you as a toy anyway." now if its the latter does our player get to be all shocked and then our two lovers actually become not?

 

It would aid in spinning stories all over the map. In DA's case its a bit more simplified as our hero hasn't ever died for 2 years and come back expecting alife that moved on in their absence. In DA we're warriors so loves could be formed on a temp basis or other LIs could want permanite from their hero and if the hero can't commit then they aren't going to be their lover but that doesn't cover the cheater the player who deliveritly vows themselves towards that LI then cheats on them with another in the group or sleeps with prostitutes.

 

If the player lies to the nicer LI just to bed them then what? In the ME forms we'd come up with many wild scenarios from Shep gets spaced to LI kills themselves and should any one inbetween be a possibility? Should devs just make character sheets that include how this LI will respond to cheating based on whom the player pics? Like lets say nice character finds out LI lies after 3 missions (be them main or sidequest) the nice LI will do a conceqence to the cheating based on whom the hero is sleeping with. If the hero picked an ingroup party member whom this LI hates alot they will do action Y most likely an extream thing as they'll have much stress over this man/woman stealer. If the hero chose to cheat with an in group member the nice LI thought was a friend then Z reaction happens again probably an extream due to the broken bond. If it was a member that nice LI was only associated with and therefore had nothing to good or bad with connection wise the reaction B would probably depend on their persona are they the type to bow out, fight harder, or become cold/firery tempered towards hero. If the hero uses a prostitute again persona would this lover care alot? alittle? or reason it away for X amount of times.

 

This would all be for every LI male and female and then we have the added codded nightmare of how many cheats are allowed? Would it be 3 types only? And then what? Would all LI potentials shut down to player attempts even the ones who might seem like the types to want to be with him/her dispite the other LI? Prostitutes don't shut out ever so if a player continues to use them will the LI or 2 both do things to the player or themselves in consequence of the player's actions? Will they team up against you or to spite you if you keep paying for services if they both dislike the practice alot? Will they punish you seperately one after 3 missions the other other randomly between missions 4 -7?

 

As you can see a nice on paper idea but a coding nightmare if not planned really well. I'd wager to get actually belivable cheating conseqences the LI amound for both male and female hero would shrink sizeably.

[Elite Midget]

I always though Aveline was a Noble . I mean , wasn't she ? Sure she wasn't born from a big wealthy family , but she wasn't from poor either . 

Usualy the noble setting , is there to create intrigue . It is just a setting , it is in no way define every house hold . Just like having a bordello , it doesn't mean everyone in Kirkwall go to it . It just there to create an atmosphere in a certain area . 

She is actually nobility, it's mentioned in her conversation with Sebastian. If her father never fled Orlais than they would have remained Nobles.

[Han Shot First]

She is actually nobility, it's mentioned in her conversation with Sebastian. If her father never fled Orlais than they would have remained Nobles.

 

Aveline isn't nobility. She was born a commoner. When her father fled Orlais he became a fugitive and no longer had any claim to rank or a hereditary fiefdom. He was basically an ex-noble, sort of like Leandra Amell after she eloped with Malcom Hawke. Aveline was raised to knighthood by Cailan, but it seems she was a non-noble knight. (No one calls her Bann or Arlessa, for instance. She is a 'Ser.')

[Steelcan]

Aveline isn't nobility. She was born a commoner. When her father fled Orlais he became a fugitive and no longer had any claim to rank or a hereditary fiefdom. He was basically an ex-noble, sort of like Leandra Amell after she eloped with Malcom Hawke. Aveline was raised to knighthood by Cailan, but it seems she was a non-noble knight. (No one calls her Bann or Arlessa, for instance. She is a 'Ser.')

still technically a noble title, knights aren't commoners, they have privileges denies to the common people

[Han Shot First]

still technically a noble title, knights aren't commoners, they have privileges denies to the common people

 

It's really only during the late middle ages that knights were considered a lower rung of nobility, though they were always held in higher esteem than the peasants. I'd compare knights to the equites of ancient Rome. Lower on the social ladder than patricians, but higher than the plebs. Basically, gentry.

[PsychoBlonde]

I actually don't care for Aveline that much to be honest, lol. She just happens to be a good counter example to the political marriage is all that exists in Thedas claims people like to make.

Saying that marriage serves a primarily political *function* in Thedas is not the equivalent of "political marriage is all that exists".  It's simply one aspect of the fact that there's no huge social taboo against extra-marital sex, love, and romance.  So, people who are romantically involved may feel no particular desire to get married.  They may even actively avoid it for a number of reasons.  Individuals who are sufficiently free of ties (like, huh, Aveline) may get married because, well, they can.  It may be a good idea for soldiers (even ones without children) because it makes the other person legal heir to all your property.

 

But declaring that because people here and now make a big screaming deal out of some flirting and/or sex, people in Thedas MUST do it TOO is nonsense.  Pathological insecurity isn't an automatic trait.

[Puppy Love]

Saying that marriage serves a primarily political *function* in Thedas is not the equivalent of "political marriage is all that exists".  It's simply one aspect of the fact that there's no huge social taboo against extra-marital sex, love, and romance.  So, people who are romantically involved may feel no particular desire to get married.  They may even actively avoid it for a number of reasons.  Individuals who are sufficiently free of ties (like, huh, Aveline) may get married because, well, they can.  It may be a good idea for soldiers (even ones without children) because it makes the other person legal heir to all your property.

 

But declaring that because people here and now make a big screaming deal out of some flirting and/or sex, people in Thedas MUST do it TOO is nonsense.  Pathological insecurity isn't an automatic trait.

 

There's no lore, no anything supporting that marriage serves as primarily a political function in Thedas.  There are several unpolitically motivated husbands and wives in the game.  There's no more backing your claim than anything else.  Nor is there any evidence there is no taboo against extramarital affairs.  You're making up a bunch of crap about the setting that isn't even there, and there is no evidence of.  Find me something that backs up your claims about Thedas.

 

I'm willing to bet my, lots of different people with different views, multiple ideas on marriage, ect, is a lot closer to the truth than all this lore you're pulling out of your ass and trying to claim is fact in the game despite just as much evidence to the contrary.  In fact I'm willing to bet that if you total all the political marriages in Thedas and all the nonpolitical marriages the non politicals win.

[Steelcan]

It's really only during the late middle ages that knights were considered a lower rung of nobility, though they were always held in higher esteem than the peasants. I'd compare knights to the equites of ancient Rome. Lower on the social ladder than patricians, but higher than the plebs. Basically, gentry.

the fact that equites means horse riders wasn't enough?

[BubbleDncr]

There are definitely consequences for cheating. I have a set of playthroughs for DA:O and DA2 (and plan on one for DA:I) that are entirely based around sleeping with as many characters as possible - and it requires significant planning in order to do so, and not end the game with everyone hating you. One slip-up of accidentally talking to a companion at the wrong moment can ruin everything. 

[PsychoBlonde]

There's no lore, no anything supporting that marriage serves as primarily a political function in Thedas.  There are several unpolitically motivated husbands and wives in the game.  There's no more backing your claim than anything else.  Nor is there any evidence there is no taboo against extramarital affairs.  You're making up a bunch of crap about the setting that isn't even there, and there is no evidence of.  Find me something that backs up your claims about Thedas.

 

Hmm, let's start with:

 

Loghain and Rowan have an affair in The Stolen Throne

Maric has an affair in The Stolen Throne

The PC can select from a number of affairs in Origins, and can even become the OFFICIAL "something on the side" of the King of Ferelden.  Zevran will actually recount some of his affairs to you if you ask him.  Leliana indicates having had some as part of being a Bard.

Wynne will mention (fondly) one of her affairs, which you find out in Asunder was with a templar--it resulted in a child

Branka goes wandering in the Deep Roads with her lover

From the wiki: The dwarves of Orzammar are noted for their polyamory (the keeping of multiple intimate partners), especially among the upper classes. While a dwarf has only one legal spouse, many nobles keep concubines, typically noble hunters, who are raised up to be part of the household and have their names recorded in the Memories. A dwarf's caste is determined by that of their same-sex parent, so many casteless dwarves offer themselves to nobles or to other higher caste dwarves as sexual partners in the hopes of producing a child of the noble's gender. As dwarven fertility is in dangerous decline due to chronic exposure to darkspawn corruption^[4] as well as because of constant war with them, any noble child is considered a blessing, and such offers are rarely turned down."

Oghren can have an affair with Felsi

Maric has ANOTHER affair in The Calling

DA2 contains a large number of characters who have or can have affairs of varying types: the PC, Ninette de Ghyslain, Isabella, Fenris, Anders, Thrask, Merrill, your MOM (who also has very little negative to say about you having affairs with whoever--even with an elf), Gamlen (who hangs out at the brothel quite a lot), Aveline (although they do get married)

Empress Celene has an affair (with an elf) in The Masked Empire that results in a lot of political hoorah--not because it was an affair, but because of the whole "elf" thing--and even then it was a political move to discredit her by a specific antagonist, NOT a general reaction

 

The entire series is full of this kind of stuff, and NOBODY ever starts gasping in horror over it.  No Chantry priests preach against it.  Nobody's much concerned with it (apart from when it's opportune to use in a political maneuver). The devs have even mentioned that, say, in Tevinter it's generally accepted to have all kinds of relationships provided you're discreet about them.

 

So, yeah, there's a TON of evidence that obsession with sexual exclusivity is not a cultural norm in Thedas.

[BabyFratelli]

I can remember various conversations and approval losses for cheating in both Origins and DA2, and as for DAI we don't really know until we play the game, unfortunately. 

[lethal_nm]

There are actually a lot of consequences to cheating?

 

In DAO, cheating will get you called out by all of the love interests. Some of them can be lied to for a little while, but eventually they will all ask you to choose between them and the other(s) - if they won't straight up break up with you and tell you to go enjoy your side game. Yes, you can exploit broken mechanics to end the game with more than one romance flag activated, but that's not supported by the game's storytelling itself. As far as the romances were written, you had to make a choice at some point, and suffer the massive approval loss on whichever part you decided to let go/whichever part decided to let go of you.

 

In DA2 there was no jealousy dialogue or catfighting like in DAO, but sleeping around blocked romances from progressing to completion. If you slept with someone else after sleeping with Fenris, his romance would be closed down and he'd never approach you about it again. Starting another romance after sleeping with Isabela stopped her romance progression into Act 3. Sebastian wouldn't even give you the time of day if you flirted all over the place.

 

It's all there. It'll probably be there again. You're free to shag your entire party if you want, but it's not without consequence.

 

DA2 i played 4 runs fenris romance does not breaks up until you sleep with at least two members. Isabella, merill and whining baby anders goes the same way. I have install no mod and have gone through this games many times so i know. however i have completed two runs only in DAO (once with morrigan and then with alister while slept with lilly) so not sure entirely.

[lethal_nm]

i dont buy that sleeping around is common in thedus story with no commitment theory. if that story is true then there should be no sexual orientation or preference everyone should be bi or gay. if there are preference and orientations then there should be commitment

 

anyway i feel like there should be something which should effect like hero learn that his/her love interest slept around with someone else while in relationship and something like that however not sure but there should be some kind of consequnce to that cheating. for example some people do not like to be toyed with and should show that clearly with their actions even if the survival of world is at stake.

 

again from Baldurs Gate 2 i remember a small plot of a elf having affair with the same elf mage who was heroes love interest and there were some consequence to the options you choose as well. i even remember viconia doesnot take it hardly however jahira forgetting to sleep with drow if answered honestly however aerie do not forgives no matter what. (i gave the examples of this game because it was the pioneer of in game romances.)

 

However i dont like mass effect type games with modern guns and stuff i play medieval only so havent played any single game from that series. dont know what happens there.

[lethal_nm]

I can remember various conversations and approval losses for cheating in both Origins and DA2, and as for DAI we don't really know until we play the game, unfortunately. 

 

there is no converstaion about cheating in DA2 i am sure of it. however not sure about DAO

[Kantr]

Leliana confronts you if you slept with her and morrigan

[Elite Midget]

Aveline isn't nobility. She was born a commoner. When her father fled Orlais he became a fugitive and no longer had any claim to rank or a hereditary fiefdom. He was basically an ex-noble, sort of like Leandra Amell after she eloped with Malcom Hawke. Aveline was raised to knighthood by Cailan, but it seems she was a non-noble knight. (No one calls her Bann or Arlessa, for instance. She is a 'Ser.')

Sebastian makes it sound like that she is nobility and would have stayed there if her father had stuck around.

[Nayawk]

i dont buy that sleeping around is common in thedus story with no commitment theory. if that story is true then there should be no sexual orientation or preference everyone should be bi or gay. if there are preference and orientations then there should be commitment

 

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean that the way it sounded. 

 

 

 

Personally I think it should be on a character by character basis.  The world is full of every opinion under the sun when it comes to sex/cheating/relationships and it is nice that games reflect that.  I also think that given the real world setting the games are trying to mimic, nobility having their own set of rules about love and marriage is spot on. Yes you can marry for love, but if you don't it is accepted that you will have something on the side, or lots of somethings if you are very lucky.

 

I can see Isabelle and Zev being very causal about sex and the hero having sex outside of the relationship, but they might have a problem with you if you form an emotional bond with someone else.  Sex and Love are not the same thing for many people.

 

Alistair or maybe Fenris strike me as the all or nothing type, they would have a very big problem with the hero playing away.

[Samahl]

i dont buy that sleeping around is common in thedus story with no commitment theory. if that story is true then there should be no sexual orientation or preference everyone should be bi or gay. if there are preference and orientations then there should be commitment

 

This makes no sense.

[lethal_nm]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean that the way it sounded. 

 

 

 

Personally I think it should be on a character by character basis.  The world is full of every opinion under the sun when it comes to sex/cheating/relationships and it is nice that games reflect that.  I also think that given the real world setting the games are trying to mimic, nobility having their own set of rules about love and marriage is spot on. Yes you can marry for love, but if you don't it is accepted that you will have something on the side, or lots of somethings if you are very lucky.

 

I can see Isabelle and Zev being very causal about sex and the hero having sex outside of the relationship, but they might have a problem with you if you form an emotional bond with someone else.  Sex and Love are not the same thing for many people.

 

Alistair or maybe Fenris strike me as the all or nothing type, they would have a very big problem with the hero playing away.

 

it was the response of some earlier replies where it seems like no one care about their love interests sleeping around.

 

i agree to the fact what you are saying and what i said is exactly the same. it should be char to char basis. there should be people who are more commitment bound rather then sleeping around as well as other category. however, no commitment at all with anyone is something which is problem. as for alistair he also do not mind sex outside if hardened example is a 4 some of dragon age.

 

 

This makes no sense.

 

all i am saying is there are some people who take relationships seriously and some who don't so there should be both sides of this coin in game.

[Samahl]

all i am saying is there are some people who take relationships seriously and some who don't so there should be both sides of this coin in game.

 

But that has nothing to do with sexual orientation...?

[lethal_nm]

Leliana confronts you if you slept with her and morrigan

if hardened Lilly sleeps with warden, isabella in 3 some and in 4 some. so this probably be before she is hardened however not sure haven't gone through with whole lilly romance all the way stopped playing in the middle of third run. did only two complete runs one with alistair and one with morrigan.

[lethal_nm]

But that has nothing to do with sexual orientation...?

so ??? too much sleeping around with many different partners leads a person to eventually forget their sexual preferences occasionally. thats not me saying its the research of most prominent psychologists

[john-in-france]

They do have consequences in DA.

Alistair and Zevran, or Leliana and Morrigan, will give you a jealous lover scene.

In DA2 Fenris makes a comment if you slept with Isabella in between him sleeping with you and getting back together. Sebastian won't romance you if you have flirted with anyone else at all.

 

So, yes I hope there will be consequences in DAI, and I can see certain characters actually walking away from a romance if you cheat (Cassandra and Cullen), and others being more casual about sex (Iron Bull and Sera).