191 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadowson]

I have no clue. Didn't we get something for the A button in the other games? If we paused and used the menu.

 

nope if i remember correctly, A was used to interact and if you were just wandering about and you pressed A it drew your weapons.

[St. Victorious]

What are u talking about? Its x y b and RB, go look at the combat video.

If that's true then they're elevating consoles towards PC levels, not dumbing down PCs to consoles. Your argument still has no validity.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Why? Because Bioware somehow got "I want characters to be even more limited than they were in Dragon Age 2" out of all the criticism to do with DA2.

[Rawgrim]

nope if i remember correctly, A was used to interact and if you were just wandering about and you pressed A it drew your weapons.

 

Yes this is true, but I think you could have an ability on A when the pause menu was up? I probably remember it completely wrong.

[schall_und_rauch]

Personally, I think the decision makes sense. Because it's not just a usability issue, but one which gives the user of one interface more power than a user with another interface. And that power is dependant upon the system they use.

 

So it could be a game-balancing issue. Assume you game-test an encounter or a dungeon on the PC, where every mage has 30 abilities available. "Oh, peace of cake, I just activate my shield of reflecting arrows in once the archers start to shoot, then call strengthen armor once the hard hitters reach my tank, call fire shield against when the fire elemental comes up and ice shield when the water elemental comes up. All in one battle. I have a very flexible mage."

So the developers release that encounter. And the console players start puking because they don't have 4 different kind of shields in availible.

 

Ok. So tune the encounter to console standards. Don't use archers, hard hitters, fire mages and water elementals in the same fight. But in that case, the PC player might consider the encounters too easy, because they have just the right situational spell up their sleeve which trivializes this critical encounter.

 

Fact is, with differing options on different systems, you're going to get different difficulty levels on the same encounters. And you really don't want to design the same encounter twice, just because the PC has a stronger interface. Because that would mean less encounter testing and worse quality for everybody.

That's why giving everybody the same options is the best way to go.

[rupok93]

and RB opens the secondary list so his point still stands.

 

Lt goes to the other 4 not Rb.

[durasteel]

I'm not sure why everyone uses the term troll whenever they see something they don't agree with, that's not what it means.

Thank you for the links though. It doesn't say anything about tactics needing to draw from the hotbar though.

...

It seemed likely to me that this thread was started (with another thread on the identical topic high on the first page of the same forum) to start a fight, hence my use of the term "troll." The OP followed a classic troll format of "The lunatics in group A should not be mad, because the people who disagree with them are wrong." 

 

You're welcome for the links.

[Shadowson]

Lt goes to the other 4 not Rb.

 

My apologies.. you are correct on the RB/LT point.

[schall_und_rauch]

K lets just delete the forum and all become fanboys that treats biowares word like gospel truth. Is that ok with you? I mean its not like Bioware has lied consistently in the past or anything. let me just spend that $60 without a single bit of skepticism.

 

How about stating your point in a respectful tone once and listening to what other people have to say, rather than spewing hate over the same point in 20 posts?

 

You are absolutely not required to give $60 to a company whose resources you are using right now, but who you repeatedly accuse of lying to you and screwing you over.

[durasteel]

If that's true then they're elevating consoles towards PC levels, not dumbing down PCs to consoles. Your argument still has no validity.

 

wat.

[St. Victorious]

Lt goes to the other 4 not Rb.

I just rewatched part of it, and I missed an entire icon. So my bad. However consoles in DAO and DA2 only had 6 abilities. This makes 8 seem like a number they agreed on and reworked things to make it work. Not a "dumbing down" at all.

[Rawgrim]

If that's true then they're elevating consoles towards PC levels, not dumbing down PCs to consoles. Your argument still has no validity.

 

Huh?

[matticusiv]

It seemed likely to me that this thread was started (with another thread on the identical topic high on the first page of the same forum) to start a fight, hence my use of the term "troll." The OP followed a classic troll format of "The lunatics in group A should not be mad, because the people who disagree with them are wrong." 

 

You're welcome for the links.

 

A troll is someone who does something for the sole purpose of angering the people it affects. If I really was just trying to start a fight then that would be closer to the truth. I started this thread for the opposite reason, because the current thread about the hotbar was just people raging. And I still believe this topic isn't the same, although it's similar. If i'm wrong then this thread will be closed like the copycat of the other thread was.

[Rawgrim]

I just rewatched part of it, and I missed an entire icon. So my bad. However consoles in DAO and DA2 only had 6 abilities. This makes 8 seem like a number they agreed on and reworked things to make it work. Not a "dumbing down" at all.

 

You can't use any of the abilities not mapped to quickslots. Radial menu is gone. If you have abilities set up in Tactics, and these are not in your quickslots, these will be skipped during combat. Pretty steep drop in what you can do during combat.

[matticusiv]

Personally, I think the decision makes sense. Because it's not just a usability issue, but one which gives the user of one interface more power than a user with another interface. And that power is dependant upon the system they use.

 

So it could be a game-balancing issue. Assume you game-test an encounter or a dungeon on the PC, where every mage has 30 abilities available. "Oh, peace of cake, I just activate my shield of reflecting arrows in once the archers start to shoot, then call strengthen armor once the hard hitters reach my tank, call fire shield against when the fire elemental comes up and ice shield when the water elemental comes up. All in one battle. I have a very flexible mage."

So the developers release that encounter. And the console players start puking because they don't have 4 different kind of shields in availible.

 

Ok. So tune the encounter to console standards. Don't use archers, hard hitters, fire mages and water elementals in the same fight. But in that case, the PC player might consider the encounters too easy, because they have just the right situational spell up their sleeve which trivializes this critical encounter.

 

Fact is, with differing options on different systems, you're going to get different difficulty levels on the same encounters. And you really don't want to design the same encounter twice, just because the PC has a stronger interface. Because that would mean less encounter testing and worse quality for everybody.

That's why giving everybody the same options is the best way to go.

This is also a good point. I think the difficulties of all the versions should be as close to identical as possible. Which is why I think this is more of a design/balance decision than Bioware kicking dirt in PC players faces. Which of those two options sounds more likely?

[durasteel]

I just rewatched part of it, and I missed an entire icon. So my bad. However consoles in DAO and DA2 only had 6 abilities. This makes 8 seem like a number they agreed on and reworked things to make it work. Not a "dumbing down" at all.

 

How many buttons are there on an X Box controller that will be unused in DAI? If there were 9 abilities mappable instead of 8, what button would activate the extra?

[Rawgrim]

The first Dragon Age game WAS dumbed down for consoles, though. (I played it on both PC and xbox). You know that bridge puzzle in the Sacred Ashes quest. That one was hugely simplified compared to the PC version. No clue why, but it was.

[cjones91]

I don't like being artificially limited in gameplay,nor do I like trial and error which is what the 8 ability limit will likely result in.

[St. Victorious]

You can't use any of the abilities not mapped to quickslots. Radial menu is gone. If you have abilities set up in Tactics, and these are not in your quickslots, these will be skipped during combat. Pretty steep drop in what you can do during combat.

Seems like a "quality love quantity" situation then.

[cjones91]

The first Dragon Age game WAS dumbed down for consoles, though. (I played it on both PC and xbox). You know that bridge puzzle in the Sacred Ashes quest. That one was hugely simplified compared to the PC version. No clue why, but it was.

I heard about that,how dumbed down are we talking here?

[katerinafm]

The first two are actually confirmed. They've said that they think 8 abilities per character and 32 per party is plenty. You will only be able to change your abilities outside of combat and won't have access to more sets with the push of a button. You also won't be able to access more abilities through the radial menu. Don't know if companions will use abilities that are not in their hotbar if their tactics tell them to.

[Nayawk]

 

Even so, I cannot understand the need some people seem to have to respond to any criticism of BioWare like a pack of shrill harpies, flinging their virtual forum excrement at anyone with the audacity to point to a design decision and say "I don't like that bit there."

 

Put down the Kool Aid. 

 

This works both ways.

 

I have no problem with constructive criticism, it is helpful overall to everyone involved. Saying "I don't like this bit and think it would be better if it was like this, here is why" is fine.  But a ton of posters who are complaining are equally going off the deep end.

 

We are getting less "I don't like this" and more "bioware are lying cheating scum who put puppies in blenders and my life is now ruined forever"  in some of these threads.  Over reacting is helpful to no one. 

[durasteel]

... If you have abilities set up in Tactics, and these are not in your quickslots, these will be skipped during combat. ...

 

While this is a reasonable assumption, I don't think it has been confirmed.

[St. Victorious]

How many buttons are there on an X Box controller that will be unused in DAI? If there were 9 abilities mappable instead of 8, what button would activate the extra?

None? If they mapped 1-9 as abilities for PC then instead of busting their heads over math they'd probably just let that ability go. At least that's what rational people would do. And there's nothing rational about the BSN. So I'm getting a beer. Cheers.