191 réponses à ce sujet

[Dunbartacus]

I think ME was a mediocre game, ME2 was horribly broken, and I didn't even bother to try ME3.

 

DAO I really liked, but DA2 is probably my least favourite BioWare game.  I couldn't roleplay my character, and the combat was remarkably dull (even ME2 didn't manage that).

I would've loved Da2 if not for the reused areas and wave combat system as i don't really roleplay or care that much about gameplay mechanics being consistent with lore. If possible i would also like to hear your justification for the tactical cam losing usefulness as im curious how you came to that conclusion?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Because you weren't expecting it.

 

If you had known that was a risk, you would have changed your radial menu behaviour.

 

 

If you don't want to get caught unable to respond to attacks, don't open the radial menu in combat.  It's that simple.

 

You're really all in with this "This is not a bug, its a feature" mentality.

 

I can't help but applaud your dedication to your belief, as much as I disagree with it fully.

[Jackums]

#firstworldproblems

[Kage]

I posted this in the other thread, but I guess I'll post it here as well:

 

So ya'll know, there seems to be about five to six active abilities per tree with the better abilities being near the end. The specializations have about three active abilities. DA:I has a hard level cap of thirty. Depending on how many abilities points you get per level (Probably one), how many you start with (Maybe two?) and whether or not there are any skill books that grant ability points, you are probably looking at about fifteen active skills at max level per character. That is if you don't upgrade anything. More realistically, you'll probably have twelve active abilities. Of those twelve, you have access to eight in combat and can switch those eight around outside of combat in order to prepare for certain environments or enemies. That is hardly limiting, especially if you make use of your scouts to have knowledge of what lies ahead. it really doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Are you in an area with a lot of ruins, walls and potential choke points? You might want to bring that ice wall ability. Are you fighting a dragon in a large open field? Switch out ice wall for a damage spell. This change further promotes tactics and planning ahead and is purely a gameplay design decision. It has nothing, and I repeat nothing, to do with console limitations or multiplayer.

 

I agree with this, but I do not like it. I think is obvious the limitation has nothing to do with consoles (since they could just keep the wheel) nor multiplayer (they are limited to 4). It is a gameplay decision, as well as limiting the health regen.

 

However, I hate this decision, because it has never been a good experience in any game I've played. When you play the game, you DO NOT KNOW what you are going to face in the next cave. I do not know if it is full of undead or has a dragon in it. No idea. So when you have to choose which abilities to map, you ALWAYS end up using the same 8 over and over and over and over, and missing the ones you dont have mapped when you need then. And just after that combat, you still dont change them, because you are using the 8 skills you know are most commonly used.

 

It just kills situational skills. I HATE THAT.

[Zanallen]

What he said is "Ability count clarity: DAI is about roles, planning ahead and making tactical decisions. Potions, ability choice, gear, party composition."

 

Did he mean that they limited abilities to achieve that, or did he mean that he sees the limitation fitting into that context, along with potions, gear, and party composition? He did not, to the best of my knowledge, ever say that they chopped down our toolbars to "improve the tactics of the game." I still haven't seen how such an assertion could be supported in any event.

 

You seem not to know how the controller shoulder buttons are mapped. Your speculation on the subject is interesting, but not persuasive to me.

 

From Mike's statement, he feels that "Potions, ability choice, gear, party composition" are aspects of "roles, planning ahead and making tactical decisions." That is the standpoint from which they decided to limit the amount of abilities usable in combat. And no, I don't know how the shoulder buttons are mapped because I haven't played the game yet. What I was saying is that, if they wanted to, they could have mapped about nineteen different abilities to the controller without needing the radial menu. As such, limiting the combat abilities to eight at a time has little to do with consoles.

[Zanallen]

I agree with this, but I do not like it. I think is obvious the limitation has nothing to do with consoles (since they could just keep the wheel) nor multiplayer (they are limited to 4). It is a gameplay decision, as well as limiting the health regen.

 

However, I hate this decision, because it has never been a good experience in any game I've played. When you play the game, you DO NOT KNOW what you are going to face in the next cave. I do not know if it is full of undead or has a dragon in it. No idea. So when you have to choose which abilities to map, you ALWAYS end up using the same 8 over and over and over and over, and missing the ones you dont have mapped when you need then. And just after that combat, you still dont change them, because you are using the 8 skills you know are most commonly used.

 

It just kills situational skills. I HATE THAT.

 

Which is why they seem to have implemented a scouting system, to let you know what kind of enemies you are likely to face in any given area. Plus, the enemies are visible before you enter combat with them, barring an ambush, so you can presumably alter your spec before a fight if needed. 

[Fredward]

Entitlement, OP, entitlement.

[coldflame]

Console players are hit with the limit too you know.

 

No, they aren't being hit with the limit, they are the limit.

[TeamLexana]

I don't understand, is the radial dial gone then? I imagine the hotkey amount might be small like it was in DA2 but it doesn't matter with the dial in single player. That's really limiting. Especially given how many spells/talents are going to be your "basic, use this all the time" skill/talent that's gonna clog up space like any taunt skills for warriors, heal/cc for mages, backstab/cloak or something along those lines for rogues, etc, etc.

 

That's going to leave a lot of skills in the "I'm never using this, EVER. Pile" Which could be a real shame for some good skills/spells that just can't fit on the hotkey for your inquisitor. I'm imagine a lot of bland blah builds that way.

[Muspade]

No, they aren't being hit with the limit, they are the limit.

 Except they weren't limited in the previous games.

Talk nonsense.

[Zanallen]

I don't understand, is the radial dial gone then? I imagine the hotkey amount might be small like it was in DA2 but it doesn't matter with the dial in single player. That's really limiting. Especially given how many spells/talents are going to be your "basic, use this all the time" skill/talent that's gonna clog up space like any taunt skills for warriors, heal/cc for mages, backstab/cloak or something along those lines for rogues, etc, etc.

 

That's going to leave a lot of skills in the "I'm never using this, EVER. Pile" Which could be a real shame for some good skills/spells that just can't fit on the hotkey for your inquisitor. I'm imagine a lot of bland blah builds that way.

 

With the way skills are placed in the trees, half of your skills are probably going to be passives. I estimate that you'll only have about twelve or so active abilities, not the 20-30 that some people seem to be imagining. Eight main skills and four that might be useful at certain times like Ice Wall or something like that.

[Fredvdp]

Also, do that many people really use THAT many abilities EVERY encounter. Even on the harder difficulties I never found it necessary to use more than 5 or 6 for the most part.

I don't always use 8 abilities in one fight*, but that's because I don't know in advance what opposition I'm going to face. If I'm fighting many small enemies, I use my area of effect spells. If I face one strong enemy, I use my debuffs and spells that target a single enemy.

 

Mike Laidlaw said the new system encourages planning in advance, but as I said in another thread, I don't think we should be able to plan fights in advance. Dragon Age: Origins had encounters with opposition you didn't expect, and it required taking your time to look at your abilities and making smart choices. For instance, that one optional fight in the mountain cave where you're fighting a bunch of cultists, two drakes, and a mage who deflects all ranged attacks who you can barely reach due to a large number of traps.

 

If a situation like that were in DA:I, then it may turn out you brought the wrong abilities for the job. You die, have to reload, and remap your abilities. This is tedious and not at all fun. The only way BioWare can counter this particular problem, is by not surprising the player with unexpected opposition, which would take away an element of challenge.

 

Besides, In DA:O and DA2, I used 6 slots for potions, grenades and poisons alone.

 

*Edit: I just looked and at the end of Awakening, I had 18 abilities (not counting sustains and consumables), of which I used 11 in almost every fight, with a twelfth that I used in more difficult fights. This is as a warrior.

[Gamemako]

*sigh*

Dear OP: people feel slighted by the decision because Dragon Age was the last vestige of the AAA PCRPG. Publishers have more or less deliberately killed the genre. Larian Studios had to self-publish Divinity: Original Sin, and the last title the studio found a publisher for was Divinity 2, an action RPG. People see this decision as a move toward ARPG standards and away from the PCRPG roots. It's a move that signifies the ultimate rejection of a style of game, where EA purchased BioWare and gradually converted the series. Of course, it doesn't happen like "WE OWN YOU, NOW MAKE FPS, BIOWER!" They work to make the game play better for a wider audience, and settle on certain design reductions to make that happen. To keep the game from cracking under the weight of those reductions, you combine and cull until only powerful necessities remain; this is how Glyph of Repulsion becomes Fire Mine, launching and burning enemies and setting them up for down-status combo. Justifications are easy to find for accepting only 8 abilities once you decide it's time to go pause-free. Wildstar does it. Path of Exile does it. Diablo 3 does 6. MOBAs get away with 1 character and 4 abilities and draw 20 million viewers.
 

Depending on how many abilities points you get per level (Probably one), how many you start with (Maybe two?) and whether or not there are any skill books that grant ability points, you are probably looking at about fifteen active skills at max level per character. That is if you don't upgrade anything. More realistically, you'll probably have twelve active abilities.

Trees we've seen as maxed are 2.33-2.4 talent points per ability (14/6, 12/5), with mage specs appearing to be 10/3. The bare design without upgrades is 9/5 or 10/6 for most trees. Depending on how many points you start with and how many you talent points you get from ingame sources (e.g. tomes), you'll have 30-35 talent points. If the cap is indeed 30, you should expect to have more than 13 as a bare minimum, and potentially as many as 20 if you're not spending points on upgrades for abilities you're not planning to use. Most likely, people will get a few abilities they like and then skip over things to get more passives.

[Dunbartacus]

I don't always use 8 abilities in one fight*, but that's because I don't know in advance what opposition I'm going to face. If I'm fighting many small enemies, I use my area of effect spells. If I face one strong enemy, I use my debuffs and spells that target a single enemy.

 

Mike Laidlaw said the new system encourages planning in advance, but as I said in another thread, I don't think we should be able to plan fights in advance. Dragon Age: Origins had encounters with opposition you didn't expect, and it required taking your time to look at your abilities and making smart choices. For instance, that one optional fight in the mountain cave where you're fighting a bunch of cultists, two drakes, and a mage who deflects all ranged attacks who you can barely reach due to a large number of traps.

 

If a situation like that were in DA:I, then it may turn out you brought the wrong abilities for the job. You die, have to reload, and remap your abilities. This is tedious and not at all fun. The only way BioWare can counter this particular problem, is by not surprising the player with unexpected opposition, which would take away an element of challenge.

This is where the planning can be effective though. for example say your next mission revolves around fighting the red templars if the system is done well you could pick a party with abilities effective against that threat.

 

The unexpected opposition and challenge your looking for could be found exploring the open worlds less traveled spaces which it would probably make sense to have a balanced party composition.

[coldflame]

 Except they weren't limited in the previous games.

Talk nonsense.

Not talking about previous games.

 

You are at the wrong forum.

[Tymvir]

I know it's difficult to mod the Frostbite engine, but hopefully modders will be able to turn Inquisition into a proper PC game with decent UI and controls.