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The Elder One (Spoilers)


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#3351
Killdren88

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Also, I do not think he should be someone who is "bad for the sake of being bad". That rarely makes sense, and even less so on such a scope. It would be more likely to turn him into a caricature.

 

I don't want The Elder One to be understanding. I want him to be a thing we cannot understand. We can have Villains who are understanding and Sympathetic. They are under the Elder One's thumb so we can have the back story which lead them into The Elder One's grasp. But leave the Elder One as a Malevolent force.


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#3352
TTTX

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I don't want The Elder One to be understanding. I want him to be a thing we cannot understand. We can have Villains who are understanding and Sympathetic. They are under the Elder One's thumb so we can have the back story which lead them into The Elder One's grasp. But leave the Elder One as a Malevolent force.

So the Reapers without the star kid.

 

I'm totally fine with that.


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#3353
Todrazok

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So having gone back and played the Corypheus encounter again, I couldn't help but notice Varric foreshadow Inquisition.

"If he pulls a dragon out of his ass im leaving" :lol:
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#3354
Kieran G.

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So the Reapers without the star kid.

 

I'm totally fine with that.

Yeah so am i. i want a sovereign not a petulant little boy.



#3355
Dusksworn

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A magister who has - at least in part - achieved that "power of the gods themselves" he set out to acquire is certainly an interesting concept and worth exploring. The problem is just that we've seen him before and he wasn't that impressive then, and more importantly...

(1) He's been sleeping all the time and couldn't have had major influence on events beyond his prison.
(2) The few years he's been free are't believable for the developments we see on Thedas.
(3) Both Flemeth and Sandal allude to some big change and some entity that plays a part in it before Hawke encounters Corypheus.

Something clearly doesn't fit. Maybe it's an artifact of sequential storytelling and retcons, in that case it's not necessarily bad in itself but suboptimal storytelling as the writers - yet again - refused to be bound by past events to a degree I find unacceptable, or there's something important we don't know yet.

Well, if we're discussing spoilers and rumors...

 

I found an old rumor on 4chan saying that the villain was trying to tear their way into the Black City...

 

As for spoilers, Corypheus is depicted as having a special weapon in the Artbook, one designed to have a contrasting appearance to the Taint and the Dragon. The artbook doesn't explain what it is, bit it's described as "Pure and simple" and is a metal orb with a fingerprint pattern. There's a few other interesting concept arts, with one having Corypheus looking more symmetrical without any warped flesh or metal sticking out of him, and in a different outfit. Still Darkspawn...

 

Currently, I'm pretty convinced that he's our primary villain, but I think most of the real focus will be on the Black City and whatever he's trying to take from it or achieve by going back. Cory's interesting traits will likely derive from the fact that he's been to the Black City and learned something from it.

 

Those wanting a more alien and incomprehensible threat can probably look forward to the Black City. While Corypheus may be trying to use the City, we ourselves have little understanding of the place or its purpose. We don't know what could be hiding in it, or what would be released if it were opened yet again. Also, I would wonder what Corypheus believes his reasons are for returning to the city... Is he under the effect of its call as Avernus was starting to be?

 

Oh, and that reminds me. Didn't Avernus believe the story of the Magisters to be a myth? Because he still felt drawn towards the Black City and felt it held the answers to the Taint, which makes me wonder why he felt that way if he didn't believe the story of the Magisters...

 

Current theory: Those who have lived with the Taint for over a century start sensing the connection to the Black City. It's as good a theory as any.

 

Speaking of which, Corypheus was asleep for more than a thousand years, and people who sleep wind up in the Fade whether they are aware of it or not, isn't that how it goes? Now, weren't the highest ranking Magisters in Tevinter also Dreamers? So, I assume that if a group of Magisters were all getting together to use most of the Empire's Lyrium, they were probably high ranking Somniari.

 

If we can take this to be true, Corypheus could have been wandering the Fade for an unprecedented length of time, with power to rival any Demon, and possibly being subjected to the call of the Black City he could never approach the entire time. I'm not sure why he would be so disoriented when he first awoke, but he seemed to snap out of it after possessing either Janeka or Larius. A lot of that could have just been the shock from waking up for the first time in so long, and whatever else may have happened. He seems to know exactly what he's doing after the whole possession incident.

 

So yeah...

 

I think the Black City is going to be the true threat looming on the Horizon, and Corypheus is the guy who'll bring it a bit closer to home.



#3356
azarhal

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Speaking of which, Corypheus was asleep for more than a thousand years, and people who sleep wind up in the Fade whether they are aware of it or not, isn't that how it goes?

 

Dwarves and Qunari sleep and their "astral form" (or whatever it's called) don't go in the Fade. Dwarves because of lyrium and Qunari because of training (apparently). I don't think Corypheus was kept in a lyrium coffin just for fun...



#3357
SphereofSilence

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Well, if we're discussing spoilers and rumors...

 

I found an old rumor on 4chan saying that the villain was trying to tear their way into the Black City...

 

As for spoilers, Corypheus is depicted as having a special weapon in the Artbook, one designed to have a contrasting appearance to the Taint and the Dragon. The artbook doesn't explain what it is, bit it's described as "Pure and simple" and is a metal orb with a fingerprint pattern. There's a few other interesting concept arts, with one having Corypheus looking more symmetrical without any warped flesh or metal sticking out of him, and in a different outfit. Still Darkspawn...

 

Currently, I'm pretty convinced that he's our primary villain, but I think most of the real focus will be on the Black City and whatever he's trying to take from it or achieve by going back. Cory's interesting traits will likely derive from the fact that he's been to the Black City and learned something from it.

 

Those wanting a more alien and incomprehensible threat can probably look forward to the Black City. While Corypheus may be trying to use the City, we ourselves have little understanding of the place or its purpose. We don't know what could be hiding in it, or what would be released if it were opened yet again. Also, I would wonder what Corypheus believes his reasons are for returning to the city... Is he under the effect of its call as Avernus was starting to be?

 

Oh, and that reminds me. Didn't Avernus believe the story of the Magisters to be a myth? Because he still felt drawn towards the Black City and felt it held the answers to the Taint, which makes me wonder why he felt that way if he didn't believe the story of the Magisters...

 

Current theory: Those who have lived with the Taint for over a century start sensing the connection to the Black City. It's as good a theory as any.

 

Speaking of which, Corypheus was asleep for more than a thousand years, and people who sleep wind up in the Fade whether they are aware of it or not, isn't that how it goes? Now, weren't the highest ranking Magisters in Tevinter also Dreamers? So, I assume that if a group of Magisters were all getting together to use most of the Empire's Lyrium, they were probably high ranking Somniari.

 

If we can take this to be true, Corypheus could have been wandering the Fade for an unprecedented length of time, with power to rival any Demon, and possibly being subjected to the call of the Black City he could never approach the entire time. I'm not sure why he would be so disoriented when he first awoke, but he seemed to snap out of it after possessing either Janeka or Larius. A lot of that could have just been the shock from waking up for the first time in so long, and whatever else may have happened. He seems to know exactly what he's doing after the whole possession incident.

 

So yeah...

 

I think the Black City is going to be the true threat looming on the Horizon, and Corypheus is the guy who'll bring it a bit closer to home.

At some point in the DA franchise, I think we get to visit it for real. Just don't think it is in DAI, it's too early. Plus I have information in my hands that shows all major plot locations in DAI (early dev details), Black City isn't in it. 



#3358
NukeZen

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#3359
TheCreeper

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At some point in the DA franchise, I think we get to visit it for real. Just don't think it is in DAI, it's too early. Plus I have information in my hands that shows all major plot locations in DAI (early dev details), Black City isn't in it. 

The Artbook points to the Black City being a major plot location. And it's pretty balant.



#3360
Killdren88

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Funny scene...but the relevance to the talk?



#3361
NukeZen

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I was thinking about the elder one, the rifts... anyway feel free to think is not relevant



#3362
Killdren88

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I was thinking about the elder one, the rifts... anyway feel free to think is not relevant

 

Ah...Sorry..I didn't mean to sound rude, I was just confused,



#3363
NukeZen

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Ah...Sorry..I didn't mean to sound rude, I was just confused,

 

Hey, no problem, maby youre right and is not relevant at all :) Just tinking about the twinkie and the elder one as the same...



#3364
raging_monkey

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Hey, no problem, maby youre right and is not relevant at all :) Just tinking about the twinkie and the elder one as the same...

Hey, no problem, maby youre right and is not relevant at all :) Just tinking about the twinkie and the elder one as the same...

i do like like twinkies...*drools*

#3365
Ieldra

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I don't want The Elder One to be understanding. I want him to be a thing we cannot understand. We can have Villains who are understanding and Sympathetic. They are under the Elder One's thumb so we can have the back story which lead them into The Elder One's grasp. But leave the Elder One as a Malevolent force.

The thing is, "evil for evil's sake" inevitably comes across as petty. I want an antagonist whose actions make sense from his own point of view. After all, real evil serves a purpose, it means you don't give a damn about how much you harm others, if only you achieve your goals. If you're truly alien, you may not even understand how what you're doing affects others, but your actions still make sense.

 

Take the Reapers, for instance. The excessive cruelty of the Reaperization process makes no sense at all given their objectives. I'd expect a much more clinical process, which apart from that, could've come across as rather more frightening than the cheap horror we'd been getting instead. 

 

IMO, the writers of any story can make no bigger mistake than to make the antagonist take actions that serve no purpose other than showing how evil they are. That just makes the antagonist appear petty. I want someone with stature, with impact, someone I choose to fight in spite of his ideology possibly having a point somewhere. If the antagonist is someone any even remotely rational human would stamp out without a second thought, they're boring. The antagonist must present a moral challenge to the hero, and it must be one where we could imagine that the outcome is not predetermined.



#3366
Kieran G.

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The thing is, "evil for evil's sake" inevitably comes across as petty. I want an antagonist whose actions make sense from his own point of view. After all, real evil serves a purpose, it means you don't give a damn about how much you harm others, if only you achieve your goals. If you're truly alien, you may not even understand how what you're doing affects others, but your actions still make sense.

 

Take the Reapers, for instance. The excessive cruelty of the Reaperization process makes no sense at all given their objectives. I'd expect a much more clinical process, which apart from that, could've come across as rather more frightening than the cheap horror we'd been getting instead. 

 

IMO, the writers of any story can make no bigger mistake than to make the antagonist take actions that serve no purpose other than showing how evil they are. That just makes the antagonist appear petty. I want someone with stature, with impact, someone I choose to fight in spite of his ideology possibly having a point somewhere. If the antagonist is someone any even remotely rational human would stamp out without a second thought, they're boring. The antagonist must present a moral challenge to the hero, and it must be one where we could imagine that the outcome is not predetermined.

This is why i wanted Fen'Harel to be the Elder One, because his whole Ideology would be so beyond ours, he doesn't think what he does is evil he just chooses to do it.

 

A town asks him to kill a monster. so he lets them all die but still kills the monster. doesn't belong to either the Creators or the Old Gods but they both think he belongs to them. He is the Perfect Zeta and in my opinion would make him a wonderful villain, someones who's ideas are beyond our own, we can hear what he is saying and seeing what he is doing to people to get it. but not quite grasp it.

 

Sorry. i love culture clashes in Novels, when a Entity beyond your own is doing something for a reason you can figure out but can't understand, you hear what they are saying and the reason they are doing it, but its so beyond the cultures mind set that it makes you unsettled.

 

Its like this, i went to China on vacation when i was like 14ish and we decided to travel a bit north west to see the more rural china and we went through these few towns and some of the woman feet were bind(ed? ing? don't know the proper way to say it.), I didn't understand why they would do it, i get they did it for beauty reason but i can't grasp the reasoning. I don't know if i'm making sense. But i just love feeling unsettled and especially with my villains.

 

I'm the kind of person who likes stress in video games or when my heart is pounding  :lol:



#3367
Ulyces

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You do know me4 is actually confirmed right?  :lol:

Lol concept art isnt enough for me. But this? This, i like. It would be pretty cool if there were actually some kind or reaper in the game as a refrence to ME.



#3368
Killdren88

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How much focus I wonder The Elder One cared to give for Hawke. Think he paid any attention to what Happened at Legacy? If we are to believe The Elder One is Posing as Dumat to keep Cory under his thumb, I like to think it was him how  Granted Croy his blessing during the fight.



#3369
Milan92

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I agree with Ieldra here. Making the Elder One evil because lulz will change him into a saterday morning cartoon villain.



#3370
EmperorSahlertz

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Since when did unfathomable and alien motives equate to evil?



#3371
NukeZen

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Since when did unfathomable and alien motives equate to evil?

 

Maby it depends on what kind of evil we are talking about. Objective evil or relative evil. For example (i don't want to start some religious diatribe, i chose this example only because almost everyone know what satan is and what he is culturally speaking) satan can be pitcured ad objective evil, the embodiment of evil and darkens and the opposit of good and light. Because of his nature, satan IS evil. Is THE evil independently from his actions.

Relative evil is a far more complex thing. Somthing that is good to me, can be evil for you. Is not some kind of force, is more a matter of perspective and response to actions taken by each one. Thus, an alien being with reasons unfathomable to me, can be very dangerous and evil if his actions are a threat to my life, my freedom and so on.

 

Just an my opinion. This is high philosopy and im not a philosopher


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#3372
SphereofSilence

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The Artbook points to the Black City being a major plot location. And it's pretty balant.

I haven't got to see that. Really? Any links?



#3373
raging_monkey

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I haven't got to see that. Really? Any links?

its against site rules to post links to the artboom
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#3374
Dusksworn

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I haven't got to see that. Really? Any links?

Let's just say that the book talks about how the structure of the Fade is more chaotic the closer you get to the Black City.

 

The same Black City that is supposedly equidistant from every other point in the Fade, and therefore impossible to get any closer to under ordinary circumstances.

 

This implies that these are extraordinary circumstances in which it is possible to get closer to the Black City.



#3375
Mr.House

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I agree with Ieldra here. Making the Elder One evil because lulz will change him into a saterday morning cartoon villain.

Eldritch abominations(which I hope is what the elder one will fall under) is not evil for the lulz. Being so alien to the point you can't comprehend it is also not lolevil. lolevil is crap like Quintin.