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[Dayze]

Thing to consider about Fen'Harel is this; on one hand its a trickster and very cunning.  On the other hand its completely insane, remember after trapping the gods he basically went alone in a mountain while giggling for centuries.

 

Fen'Harel could just be a demon; who tricked some other demons/spirits and hangs out in the Fade chowing down on human spirits occasionally.

 

Flemeth doesn't seem to be the same kind of cunning, she's more about putting people in places and motivating them to do what she wants more so than actually creating intricate plans and grand intrigues.

 

She tries to set it up so the universe "just" brings about the result she wants with minimal interaction on her part.

 

And while she could be kind of "goofy" in DAO she didn't seem fupnuts crazy to me.

 

As for the formless one; I'm guessing its just a real old, real powerful Shade.

 

I mean if all it took was shape changing ala Flemeth, Gaxkang could be "The Formless One" as much as Flemeth.  which he isn't is what I'm trying to say.

 

Honestly I hope the Elder One is something else, an expansion on the Lore with connections to previous aspects.

[Dayze]

Again i don't think he created the world i think he saw something and decided that the Veil was needed and created it to keep the two worlds separate. So he didn't make the fade and was like "Yo this is boring" and hopped over to a new place and created thedas. i think it was all just one place and some grand spirit maybe a choice which made the two realm separated 

 

Again i don't think he created the world i think he saw something and decided that the Veil was needed and created it to keep the two worlds separate. So he didn't make the fade and was like "Yo this is boring" and hopped over to a new place and created thedas. i think it was all just one place and some grand spirit maybe a choice which made the two realm separated 

 

That and is the Maker necessary as powerful as people seem to think?  I mean consider the nature of the fade, how much can be created via dreams and demons taking possession of people.

 

Yeah; it would be substantially more powerful than pretty much anything in existence.  But once the nature of reality was set, might have been significantly dropped in capability.

 

Basically you in a dream vs you in reality.

[Kieran G.]

That and is the Maker necessary as powerful as people seem to think?  I mean consider the nature of the fade, how much can be created via dreams and demons taking possession of people.

 

Yeah; it would be substantially more powerful than pretty much anything in existence.  But once the nature of reality was set, might have been significantly dropped in capability.

 

Basically you in a dream vs you in reality.

But this was before people could sleep and dream in the fade. so power must have been completely different back then.

[Dusksworn]

Well, I have a lot of thoughts on the Maker, but generally I assume him to be less humanish than generally portrayed, and I'm pretty uncertain if he's actually very separate from the City itself.

 

Basically, I often tend to feel that the Maker is the Golden/Black City in some sense, or the personification/spirit of it at the center of reality.

[myahele]

I agree that Flemeth can't be the formless one.In the end, that'll make Flemeth an abomination which Morrigan (and maybe Fenris?) says she's not.

 

She's a "friend" to the Dalish and most dalish don't deal with demons/spirits. The ones that do are usually bound or sealed. She and her daughters are also pro dragons. So I wonder if she likes what's going on? She says she's done alot for the world, but she has been forgotten by the world.

 

I wonder if this is her plan or maybe such catastrophe is for the greater good of people?

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

I am starting to think The Elder One is Dumat.

I think you are half right. I think the Elder one poses as Dumat, and for said reason Corypheus obeys him. Because Corypheus genuinely thinks he is Dumat.

[Ieldra]

Here's the short version of my hypothesis about the Elder One:

 

I think that the Elder One and Flemeth are of the same kind, and that they are antagonists (to each other, not the Inquisitor). I think the Elder One is the one Flemeth refers to when she says she used the amulet to travel to Kirkwall because she wanted to avoid attention. What they are is somehow related to the Old Gods, though it is unclear exactly how and I see no hypothesis that suggests itself.

 

I think there is no connection at all to the primeval demons, Fen'Harel or the Maker. The former because it is impossible to relate to them, which makes them bad antagonists for storytelling, and the latter because they're mythological figures and are thus unlikely to become real, unlike the Old Gods which were always presented as if real, even though their nature remains in question. Lastly, this is the Dragon Age, so I think it is more plausible and likely that the story will make heavy use of dragons and things related to them, and that Flemeth's and the Elder One's dragon shape has more meaning than being just a convenient shape to take on for some other entity.

[Kieran G.]

Here's the short version of my hypothesis about the Elder One:

 

I think that the Elder One and Flemeth are of the same kind, and that they are antagonists (to each other, not the Inquisitor). I think the Elder One is the one Flemeth refers to when she says she used the amulet to travel to Kirkwall because she wanted to avoid attention. What they are is somehow related to the Old Gods, though it is unclear exactly how and I see no hypothesis that suggests itself.

 

I think there is no connection at all to the primeval demons, Fen'Harel or the Maker. The former because it is impossible to relate to them, which makes them bad antagonists for storytelling, and the latter because they're mythological figures and are thus unlikely to become real, unlike the Old Gods which were always presented as if real, even though their nature remains in question. Lastly, this is the Dragon Age, so I think it is more plausible and likely that the story will make heavy use of dragons and things related to them, and that Flemeth's and the Elder One's dragon shape has more meaning than being just a convenient shape to take on for some other entity.

I and raging_monkey discussed a theory about Flemeth fighting the Elder One. how she put in motion different Heros to unite lands so they wouldn't be as chaotic.

DA:O to stop a civil war and quickly end a blight so the land wasn't as chaotic and weak when the elder one arrived.

DA:2 to become a champion of the people and if chose to bring peace to kirkwall as Viscount, and much we don't know which will be revealed in DA:I

 

We also discussed that maybe the Elder One was doing the same to Loghain that he has done to the rest of the warring nation, manipulated from the shadows and played on their emotions so they go to extreme measures.

 

Yeah i definitely think she saw that "storm" coming and purposely put people on paths so Thedas Wouldn't be as weak as it could be when the Elder One does come.

[Ieldra]

Yes, I think that's exactly what Flemeth had been doing, and indeed it's very plausible that the Elder One would also put his pawns into place in order to influence events, though with no positive evidence in the games at all it's hard to say where exactly. The only piece of information we have is from TME. Loghain is a possibility, but I find it more plausible that the Elder One may have woken up the Architect, knowing that this could result in starting the next Blight. Knowing that manipulating people that way isn't an exact science, both would have influenced several other figures in a kind of cosmic chess game, hoping that some of them would end up in positions where they'd further the chessmaster's plans.

 

I hope this turns out to be true. That would make the Elder One one of the most impressive antagonists in gaming history. Especially if he has been doing this since the ancient Magisters' attempt to breach the Golden City.... which is also part of my hypothesis about the bigger picture though I'm not as confident of it as of the aforementioned things. 

[Kieran G.]

Yes, I think that's exactly what Flemeth had been doing, and indeed it's very plausible that the Elder One would also put his pawns into place in order to influence events, though with no positive evidence in the games at all it's hard to say where exactly. The only piece of information we have is from TME. Loghain is a possibility, but I find it more plausible that the Elder One may have woken up the Architect, knowing that this could result in starting the next Blight. Knowing that manipulating people that way isn't an exact science, both would have influenced several other figures in a kind of cosmic chess game, hoping that some of them would end up in positions where they'd further the chessmaster's plans.

 

I hope this turns out to be true. That would make the Elder One one of the most impressive antagonists in gaming history. Especially if he has been doing this since the ancient Magisters' attempt to breach the Golden City.... which is also part of my hypothesis about the bigger picture though I'm not as confident of it as of the aforementioned things. 

See i think the blight would have been ended no matter what. but it would have swallowed ferelden whole if the Wardens weren't saved by flemeths. and that horde would have then marched on Orlais. and yes it might have been ended. but i think it would have caused a enormous amount of destruction. so maybe the Elder One made Loghain and the Blight begin. because think how perfect that plan would have been if the warden wasn't saved. Loghain would have betrayed and lost thousands of troops, have not of been able to unite the Bann's and the blight would stroll across ferelden with barely any resistance. and probably would have made its way towards ferelden where it would have caused more destruction and would have probably been ended after an insane amount of casualties.

 

that would be the perfect state for the elder one to reappear. so i think the Mage-Templar war and the Orlesian Civil war is just his next move since his first one had failed. 

[TTTX]

Since its always nice to break up talks with silliness does the Elder One have boxers or briefs?

The first ep of Breaking Bad has the answer to that question.

[Ieldra]

@Kieran:

Your hypothesis is quite plausible. If I remain in doubt about the details of the Elder One's past involvements it is because I do not like to speculate without any positive evidence. The games and books hint that some power has likely orchestrated the Mage/Templar war and the Orlesian Civil war, and it's plausible to assume it's the Elder One. We know about Flemeth that she saved the Warden and Hawke and it's implausible to assume she did that just because she liked them, so there is positive evidence for her manipulating events in the past. In addition, there are her words to Hawke as evidence she's a player in this game. However, there is no such evidence for the Elder One's past involvements. All we can assume with some confidence is that such involvements have existed. It's quite possible that we'll never know and the writers leave us to spin one conspiracy theory after the other. For without positive evidence, that's all it is and any alternative hypothesis that explains events equally well is as likely to be true.

 

I do hope we'll come to know, though. Not all the details of course, but the most important ones should be revealed in DAI.

[Killdren88]

The first ep of Breaking Bad has the answer to that question.

 

So...the Elder One is Walter White? So at the end of Breaking bad he was taken to the Fade and became the Elder One?

 

[raging_monkey]

Never saw breaking bad... context?

[Kieran G.]

Never saw breaking bad... context?

Its a complete and major spoiler

[TTTX]

Never saw breaking bad... context?

Go and watch it.

 

It's Awesome and you will know Walter White as a badass.

 

If I said more then it would be a spoiler.

[raging_monkey]

Go and watch it.
 
It's Awesome and you will know Walter White as a badass.
 
If I said more then it would be a spoiler.

Go and watch it.
 
It's Awesome and you will know Walter White as a badass.
 
If I said more then it would be a spoiler.

Its a complete and major spoiler

eh its sunday why not

[Killdren88]

So I must ask what does Fen'harrel get out of all of this it he is behind it?

[raging_monkey]

So I must ask what does Fen'harrel get out of all of this it he is behind it?

he likes to polish his "sword" it gets boring when your a god so he needs some "relax time" lol

OT: possibly its just for fun at first but realizing the benifits he deciedes to be more "proactive" in mortal affairs. But its also possible that he's testing us for some unknown reason.

[Kieran G.]

So I must ask what does Fen'harrel get out of all of this it he is behind it?

To spice things up maybe?

 

Do we know what Dumat gets out of it?

 

What Corypheus gets?

 

What the Elder One gets if he isn't any of those?

 

Fen'Harel is like the Joker, may act like he doesn't have a plan, and loves to cause chaos. but he knows how to make pawns move so even if you stop his first move he already has a bomb planted or a hero ready to become a villain.

 

In all the stories he does what he wants because he wants, not like a rich selfish boy who thinks he is entitled but because he doesn't see the rules as the other gods or mortals see them.

 

"The god Fen'Harel was asked by a village to kill a great beast. He came to the beast at dawn, and saw its strength, and knew it would slay him if he fought it. So instead, he shot an arrow up into the sky. The villagers asked Fen'Harel how he would save them, and he said to them, 'When did I say that I would save you?' And he left, and the great beast came into the village that night and killed the warriors, and the women, and the elders. It came to the children and opened its great maw, but then the arrow that Fen'Harel had loosed fell from the sky into the great beast's mouth, and killed it. The children of the village wept for their parents and elders, but still they made an offering to Fen'Harel of thanks, for he had done what the villagers had asked. He had killed the beast, with his cunning, and a slow arrow that the beast never noticed." 

 

I think that explains his character he has no compassion and doesn't care if people die, but he will still accept offerings or requests. he might trick the people or do exactly what they said. Like i said previously he is the embodiment of a perfect Zeta. not following anyone elses lead, accepting himself only, not being driven by lust or respect from others. he is the perfect Zeta Wolf.

[Kieran G.]

Here is a story which shows him acting on peoples emotions. if we are going off of the theory that the Elder One, has manipulated people into extreme emotions.

Felassan: "There was a young noble in fair Arlathan, and it happened that the elven king lost one of his two daughters to a serpent's bite. At the ceremony to commemorate her life, the young noble saw an elven lady so fair and perfect that his heart broke--but by the laws of ancient Arlathan, he was forbidden to speak with her during the ceremony, and he did not learn who she was, so he could not ask her family to court her. The young noble prayed to the gods that he might meet the elven lady again. He prayed toMythal for love, and Dirthamen for the secret of the elven lady's name, and to Andruil for luck in the hunt for this woman. And finally, he made an offering to Fen'Harel...and the Dread Wolf was the only one who answered. In a dream that night, he told the noble what he needed to do to see his heart's love again. Do you know what he said?" Briala: "Kill the king's other daughter."

If we believe the Elder One has played off the Emotions of the Templars and Mage's making them go to extreme paranoia or other emotions, like what we saw with loghain during the civil war. this story shows Fen'Harel playing on the Emotions of a boy who wants to see a girl so much that he get him to kill the other daughter which he probably would have never done. 

[raging_monkey]

To spice things up maybe? Do we know what Dumat gets out of it? What Corypheus gets? What the Elder One gets if he isn't any of those? Fen'Harel is like the Joker, may act like he doesn't have a plan, and loves to cause chaos. but he knows how to make pawns move so even if you stop his first move he already has a bomb planted or a hero ready to become a villain. In all the stories he does what he wants because he wants, not like a rich selfish boy who thinks he is entitled but because he doesn't see the rules as the other gods or mortals see them. "The god Fen'Harel was asked by a village to kill a great beast. He came to the beast at dawn, and saw its strength, and knew it would slay him if he fought it. So instead, he shot an arrow up into the sky. The villagers asked Fen'Harel how he would save them, and he said to them, 'When did I say that I would save you?' And he left, and the great beast came into the village that night and killed the warriors, and the women, and the elders. It came to the children and opened its great maw, but then the arrow that Fen'Harel had loosed fell from the sky into the great beast's mouth, and killed it. The children of the village wept for their parents and elders, but still they made an offering to Fen'Harel of thanks, for he had done what the villagers had asked. He had killed the beast, with his cunning, and a slow arrow that the beast never noticed."  I think that explains his character he has no compassion and doesn't care if people die, but he will still accept offerings or requests. he might trick the people or do exactly what they said. Like i said previously he is the embodiment of a perfect Zeta. not following anyone elses lead, accepting himself only, not being driven by lust or respect from others. he is the perfect Zeta Wolf.

going by that story i have agree he's the true nuetral type. Not bound by mortal constructs so he's able to see what most dont. So what we see as villiany he could be the revan of da becoming a "evil" to prevent a greater evil. *Adopts kreai's voice*Such a quiet thing to fall only you realize it when your lying there....

From a medical standpoint he's a extreme sociopath... man what i wouldnt give for chick like that *self-mocking chuckle*

[Kieran G.]

going by that story i have agree he's the true nuetral type. Not bound by mortal constructs so he's able to see what most dont. So what we see as villiany he could be the revan of da becoming a "evil" to prevent a greater evil. *Adopts kreai's voice*Such a quiet thing to fall only you realize it when your lying there....

From a medical standpoint he's a extreme sociopath... man what i wouldnt give for chick like that *self-mocking chuckle*

Yeah. that's just my personal opinion of him and why he seems like a wonderfully interesting character.

[raging_monkey]

Yeah. that's just my personal opinion of him and why he seems like a wonderfully interesting character.

its popular opinion. Maker really hope he gets a mention but more than passing

[Todrazok]

Whatever the elder one turns out to be, i suspect my mind will be blown like when corypheus did his revelation. If that happens, bioware will have done a great job .