Hey, I'm planning on writing a review of the dragon age series leading up to Inquisition and starting with Origins.
I've got a good idea about what I want to talk about, but is there anything else good or bad about this game that's been missed that I could talk about?
The bugs and glitches are the worst. But I'm not sure what you want. Are you reviewing story, gameplay, red herrings, should this situation have or have not happened, retconning, rumours as opposed to epilogues? 
Good Things:
1) Origins
2) Companions and the relationship system (though gifting makes it a tad bit "easy" to keep everyone happy)
3) Strong npc cast (especially Loghain)
4) Awesome background and tone (not as oppressively hopeless as ASOIAF, but still dark)
5) Strategic Combat that allows for multiple ways to victory
6) Main Story Quests are all good (some better than others)
7) Interesting Moral Dilemnas (Is Loghain right or wrong? Mages or Templars? Kill or save Connor? Which dwarf king to choose?)
8) Awakening was a neat expansion pack (you get to run your own arling, act as commander, and determine outcome of darkspawn civil war)
Missed Opportunities (aka, the kind of bad stuff):
1) Orzammar is cheap because there's no way of knowing that Harrowmont will be a bad king without meta-knowledge. Vice versa with Bhelen being the "right choice" without aforesaid meta-knowledge
a) Not being able to become ruler as dwarf commoner/noble despite having two loopholes to do so (Provings and Paragon endorsement) Yes, you are declared a Paragon, but why not eat both the cookie and the cake when you clearly have enough money for both?
You can't spare the Anvil without siding with crazy Branka (I get the point, but considering the number of times that persuasion is employed, it makes no sense that we can't convince Cariden that the Anvil is needed. Yet, we can convince crazy Branka that the anvil must be destroyed. It just seems uneven for no real reason than "drama")
2) Landsmeet is tedious and is impossible to fail (Plus, does the monarch have to be Alistair and Anora? How about making Teagan king? Cousland as sole ruler? Side with Loghain? (As crazy as it sounds))
3) Loghain recruitment dilemna is forced and contrived (Why loghain? Why doesn't Riorden tell Alistair and the Warden about the Archdemon thing? Why not put someone else through the joining like one of the many knights in the capital?)
4) Rogue/Mage companion options are limited (it's somewhat easy to be stuck with one or no rogue/mage characters (like if you kill Wynne or Zevran for instance))
a) Leske or Shianni would've been neat full-rogue companions
Jowan was actually planned as a full-companion, but scrapped for budget reasons
5) WOG retcons that don't make sense
a) Loghain not being as involved with Howe as the game suggests (which makes Loghain seem like an idiot for working with him)
Templars actually do need lyrium (Hawke, Warden and Alistair were in-game proof to the contrary and Alistair (who was trained as a templer) stated that the lyrium thing was more of a control-device by the Chantry
Your good points are good and bring out what I would have suggested as well. I have to add a couple things to the bad.
It is possible to fail the Landsmeet if you don't have Anora's vote and say the wrong phrases in the Landsmeet. The procedure breaks down in pandemonium as Loghain calls for your head and you have to fight for your life before the duel is suggested. This was a much less satisfactory result to me, but I did do it once to see what happens. I get why the only options are Alistair or Anora, as putting a Cousland on the throne comes off not much better than Loghain seizing it. While you have a leg up as a nobleman, you have no more right than say Eamon to sit on it without marrying the monarch you place there. And Teagan, while immensely popular as a fan favorite, is a minor bann over a small area of Ferelden. It's his brother with all the political clout, hence why you need Eamon to call the Landsmeet, and why Teagan would be unsuitable as King.
Some of the DLC doesn't hold up well to inspection either.
Aside from bugs and misplaced plot flags, which is one of my biggest issues with the game and why I play on PC (modders are amazing), WoG retcons are my biggest issue with the game. In particular RtO, with the whacko OOC behavior of Wynne and Alistair's dialogues. And the idea that Cailan knew the battle was lost is absolutely ridiculous. That he flung those men into a pointless battle that he knew everyone would die in casts him in the stupidest light possible, and to me casts Loghain's plans in a much darker vein. IF Cailan (who was an idiot) knew the fight was pointless, then Loghain, who conceived the plan would know it as well, and would know he was sending the wardens, the army and his king (even if they argued over it) to their deaths. All for nothing. And something I just can't see Loghain doing, considering how fanatically devoted he is to Ferelden. I always felt while he may have planned it as a contingency, leaving was a spur of the moment thing, a decision made when he saw the tower light up, not premeditated. It seems more like this was tailormade for Loghain fans to back up Loghain's position that 'the fight wasn't winnable' and to introduce the element of Cailan divorcing Anora and handing Ferelden over to Celene with a political marriage, though Loghain intimates that this news comes as a surprise to him. That this was a "Loghain love-fest" is plain in that he has the best lines in the DLC.
Once the "in game" DLCs are done (Warden's Keep, RtO and Stone Prisoner) the only DLC with any real connection to the story is Witch Hunt, which frankly would only interest those with some connection to Morrigan (either a burning hatred and need to shove a knife into her, or those who were the baby daddy and wanted to join her). Darkspawn Chronicles and Leliana's Song don't even have the Warden in them (though I refused to buy and play DC, I purchased and enjoyed LS), and Golems of Amgarrak--while it had the warden in it--had little connection to the rest of the story, and frankly was of interest to maybe only dwarves. AND had the most useless companions ever.
Good points raised, indeed. I personally liked the darkspawn chronicles because it was an combat only DLC, and all I needed to worry about was fighting. Not to mention it felt extrangely good to just give our companions an good smackdown. Though gameplay was pretty limited. Ogres and shrieks couldn't drink health potions, no leveling up and some fights are just too overwhelming. Similar problem with Leliana's song, extremely limited resources and mages were especially overpowered, but I enjoyed the story an great deal.
Other points I could raise:
Companions were writen with contrieved priorities, were they would allow you to do outrageous things but would quit or even attack you for doing smaller things. Such as Alistair putting up with you no matter how much of an jerk you are but calling it a day if you spare someone, or Wynne allowing you to sacrifice dozens of innocent people for an blood magic ritual but will attack you for defiling some magical pottery, I mean, what the heck? It all felt very stupid and forceful.
Utter lack of tatical preparation, like in some fights, you could tatically place your companions in different locations and then when you initiate dialogue, they are all behind you again. That was lame.
Approval system was too one sided, with companions only gaining an small amount of approval if you are extremely nice to them, but losing massive quantities of it just for saying something out line.
WoG retcons are my biggest issue with the game.
Once the "in game" DLCs are done (Warden's Keep, RtO and Stone Prisoner) the only DLC with any real connection to the story is Witch Hunt, which frankly would only interest those with some connection to Morrigan (either a burning hatred and need to shove a knife into her, or those who were the baby daddy and wanted to join her).
I forgot about the Dalish connection in WH. I did WH with only my Queen and King Cousland's and felt that was enough. Thanks for the reminder about the book and Ariane!
1) Orzammar is cheap because there's no way of knowing that Harrowmont will be a bad king without meta-knowledge. Vice versa with Bhelen being the "right choice" without aforesaid meta-knowledge
Considering how Bioware dismisses the epilogues as "rumors" we don't really know how it turns out. What we do know beforehand is that Harrowmont is traditional yet honorable while Bhelen is a reformist but sleazy. That's supposed to be the basis on your decision; not meta-knowledge.
Only problem I had with Origin (actually to be fair this is probably more DA2) is people I killed didn't stay down. I guess I really under estimated the power of Andraste's Ashes since it was pretty clear I removed Leliana's head from her body yet she dared to return. Seeing how that is my only complaint with the game that tells me BW put out a solid product.
Only problem I had with Origin (actually to be fair this is probably more DA2) is people I killed didn't stay down. I guess I really under estimated the power of Andraste's Ashes since it was pretty clear I removed Leliana's head from her body yet she dared to return.
It's especially miraculous considering you're forced to behead her specifically because you defiled the ashes.
Your good points are good and bring out what I would have suggested as well. I have to add a couple things to the bad.
It is possible to fail the Landsmeet if you don't have Anora's vote and say the wrong phrases in the Landsmeet. The procedure breaks down in pandemonium as Loghain calls for your head and you have to fight for your life before the duel is suggested. This was a much less satisfactory result to me, but I did do it once to see what happens. I get why the only options are Alistair or Anora, as putting a Cousland on the throne comes off not much better than Loghain seizing it. While you have a leg up as a nobleman, you have no more right than say Eamon to sit on it without marrying the monarch you place there. And Teagan, while immensely popular as a fan favorite, is a minor bann over a small area of Ferelden. It's his brother with all the political clout, hence why you need Eamon to call the Landsmeet, and why Teagan would be unsuitable as King.
Some of the DLC doesn't hold up well to inspection either.
Aside from bugs and misplaced plot flags, which is one of my biggest issues with the game and why I play on PC (modders are amazing), WoG retcons are my biggest issue with the game. In particular RtO, with the whacko OOC behavior of Wynne and Alistair's dialogues. And the idea that Cailan knew the battle was lost is absolutely ridiculous. That he flung those men into a pointless battle that he knew everyone would die in casts him in the stupidest light possible, and to me casts Loghain's plans in a much darker vein. IF Cailan (who was an idiot) knew the fight was pointless, then Loghain, who conceived the plan would know it as well, and would know he was sending the wardens, the army and his king (even if they argued over it) to their deaths. All for nothing. And something I just can't see Loghain doing, considering how fanatically devoted he is to Ferelden. I always felt while he may have planned it as a contingency, leaving was a spur of the moment thing, a decision made when he saw the tower light up, not premeditated. It seems more like this was tailormade for Loghain fans to back up Loghain's position that 'the fight wasn't winnable' and to introduce the element of Cailan divorcing Anora and handing Ferelden over to Celene with a political marriage, though Loghain intimates that this news comes as a surprise to him. That this was a "Loghain love-fest" is plain in that he has the best lines in the DLC.
Once the "in game" DLCs are done (Warden's Keep, RtO and Stone Prisoner) the only DLC with any real connection to the story is Witch Hunt, which frankly would only interest those with some connection to Morrigan (either a burning hatred and need to shove a knife into her, or those who were the baby daddy and wanted to join her). Darkspawn Chronicles and Leliana's Song don't even have the Warden in them (though I refused to buy and play DC, I purchased and enjoyed LS), and Golems of Amgarrak--while it had the warden in it--had little connection to the rest of the story, and frankly was of interest to maybe only dwarves. AND had the most useless companions ever.
I suppose the Cailan retcon was supposed to make Cailan seem more intelligent than he seemed. Though suggesting that the king knew that the battle was lost before the main battle started and after 3 successful victories is odd.
The options for the Landsmeet would be more risky, but they would make the quest more interesting because you're not railroaded into always picking Anora or Alistair who frankly have questionable aspects about them as rulers. Teagan would be an unlikely darkhorse option, but Cousland PC is the son of a beloved teryn whom a portion of the landsmeet wanted to make king. As long as it's done legally (aka not as Loghain whose ignoring the Landsmeet), then I don't see any real reason why Cousland shouldn't be voted upon as sole king/queen seeing as that Anora has no other claim than as her father's daughter and Cailan's widow. After all, the Landsmeet is supposed to vote in their ruler, right? So essentially anyone could be king/queen as long as the Landsmeet approves. I can get why Anora and Alistair would have the best chance though.
And even if you deliberately say all of the wrong things during the Landsmeet, all you have to do is defeat Loghain and mission accomplished.
Warden's Keep was good for context to Ferelden's partial mistrust of the Wardens and giving us an awesome sword and castle (that we sadly never use for some reason). Stone Prisoner gave more of a personal insight and context to golems through Shale and her story. Return to Ostagar brought closure to the night which drove Ferelden into chaos.
Others have already pretty much mentioned the things that are worth reviewing. I suppose you could also review the graphics and voice acting if you like.
I personally like the graphics. The characters look good and so do their facial expressions. The voice acting is also great. I talked about this with couple of my friends and we agreed that some people just have that unique voice you could listen for hours. Claudia Black is one such person. Looking forward to hearing her voice in DA:I.
I agree with most everything already said in this thread, but can someone, for the love of the Maker please tell me what WoG or WOG is?
Siding with Loghain isn't as crazy as you think. When I first started playing DAO a few years ago I was dead set against him and considered him an absolute horrible villain. Now- I wish my Wardens could save him and keep him alive (but I'm in love with Alistair). Even if what he did at Ostagar is dismissed as a strong strategic decision- he did many other things that condemned him. But after reading the books it's kind of almost like a Breaking Bad slide. Loghain sacrificed so much for Ferelden and then he goes crazy unfortunately.
I agree with most everything already said in this thread, but can someone, for the love of the Maker please tell me what WoG or WOG is?
Siding with Loghain isn't as crazy as you think. When I first started playing DAO a few years ago I was dead set against him and considered him an absolute horrible villain. Now- I wish my Wardens could save him and keep him alive (but I'm in love with Alistair). Even if what he did at Ostagar is dismissed as a strong strategic decision- he did many other things that condemned him. But after reading the books it's kind of almost like a Breaking Bad slide. Loghain sacrificed so much for Ferelden and then he goes crazy unfortunately.
Siding with Loghain after all of the dumb, unethical or downright inexcusable things that he's done essentially requires a leap of faith.
WOG=Word of God Where the writers say something to clarify or retcon (groan) something in the game.
Siding with Loghain after all of the dumb, unethical or downright inexcusable things that he's done essentially requires a leap of faith.
WOG=Word of God Where the writers say something to clarify or retcon (groan) something in the game.
Or an sheer hate for Alistair, wich I had. Not to mention I aways end up making the umpopular decisions when I play these games.
Really? I aways thought WOG standed for word of Gaider. Guess it's not really that different, eh?
Or an sheer hate for Alistair, wich I had. Not to mention I aways end up making the umpopular decisions when I play these games.
Really? I aways thought WOG standed for word of Gaider. Guess it's not really that different, eh?
Word of Gaider works too.
I never understood the hatedom for Alistair (there are justifiable reasons to not like him, but the hatedom just acts like the guy has nothing likable about him).
Word of Gaider works too.
I never understood the hatedom for Alistair (there are justifiable reasons to not like him, but the hatedom just acts like the guy has nothing likable about him).
Erm, it's complicated. It would require a long post to make all my points of why I dislike him, but it's mostly about his rather hypocrital behaviour, such as heavily criticizing the warden for making pragmatic decisions and handwaving it when Duncan is the one doing it. Pretty much demanding you to feel privileged and honored for being made an grey warden, while in all honesty I felt like absolute crap about it. And when he gave his speech about recruiting Loghain was so detrimental to the wardens, that was about the last straw for me. That being said, I still made him the king when I recruited Loghain. I simply felt no obligation to allow him to have his way.
Review's done!
Part 1: http://thaeonblade.d...s-1-2-480340129
Part 2: http://thaeonblade.d...s-2-2-481163335
As soon as I'm done without another Awakening playthrough and that of DA2, then I'll have DA2 out within a month or so.
If missed anything or there's an interesting aspect of the game that's worth talking about, feel free to comment in the review comments.
Erm, it's complicated. It would require a long post to make all my points of why I dislike him, but it's mostly about his rather hypocrital behaviour, such as heavily criticizing the warden for making pragmatic decisions and handwaving it when Duncan is the one doing it. Pretty much demanding you to feel privileged and honored for being made an grey warden, while in all honesty I felt like absolute crap about it. And when he gave his speech about recruiting Loghain was so detrimental to the wardens, that was about the last straw for me. That being said, I still made him the king when I recruited Loghain. I simply felt no obligation to allow him to have his way.
Those aren't huge reasons to hate someone, but it's especially hypocritical when some of the same people like Loghain for example whose hypocrisy goes far beyond Alistair's regarding Duncan. Ex: Hating Orlais for its slavery yet enslaving the alienage to finance his civil war. Approval of people isn't always logic-based though.
I suppose it's rather infuriating that you can't point out any of Alistair's hypocrisies to him. He calls Duncan "a good man" and just shuts his eyes to Ducan striking down Jory because Duncan couldn't be bothered to try talking him down. If you say Duncan "got what he deserved" after learning he tricked you into a death sentence Alistair says "you know why you're here and it isn't because of him" when many pc's in fact were only there because of Duncan conscripting them. Gamers can easily project anger towards Alistair here because the game doesn't let you say anything back. There's actually a unique option when Alistair confronts you at camp with max disapproval for pc's who didn't voluntarily join that says "I didn't ask for any of this, did I?" Alistair is unsympathetic.
Siding with Loghain after all of the dumb, unethical or downright inexcusable things that he's done essentially requires a leap of faith.
Considering that the Warden can also do a bunch of dumb, unethical and downright inexcusable things... 
(Seriously, I don't see a huge difference between "I have to preserve the soul-enslaving Anvil of the Void to save the world!" and "I have to deal with elf-enslaving heretics to save my country!" Sure, world > country, but eternal spirit > mortal body, too)
Considering that the Warden can also do a bunch of dumb, unethical and downright inexcusable things...
(Seriously, I don't see a huge difference between "I have to preserve the soul-enslaving Anvil of the Void to save the world!" and "I have to deal with elf-enslaving heretics to save my country!" Sure, world > country, but eternal spirit > mortal body, too)
The Warden's actual morality depends on the player.
Loghain's actions on the other hand...are consistent from play-through to play-through.
The Warden's actual morality depends on the player.
Loghain's actions on the other hand...are consistent from play-through to play-through.
But that brings the question, if doing something evil was the only way to achieve victory and thus save the world, would you do it? Players don't need to worry about it since plot dictates they can win even with an weak army. But what if preserving the anvil, siding with the werewolves and so forth, was the only sure way to win, would you do it? I find interesting players judge Loghain so passionately, but they don't really bother to place themselves on his shoes.
But that brings the question, if doing something evil was the only way to achieve victory and thus save the world, would you do it? Players don't need to worry about it since plot dictates they can win even with an weak army. But what if preserving the anvil, siding with the werewolves and so forth, was the only sure way to win, would you do it? I find interesting players judge Loghain so passionately, but they don't really bother to place themselves on his shoes.
Accomplishing a little evil for the greater good? That is something that the game's themes do feature as the Grey Warden motto is to do "whatever is necessary" to defeat the darkspawn. How openly that the player embraces this philosophy or wavers towards cruelty or righteousness will vary from Warden to Warden and situation to situation.
But there is the simple fact that Loghain is failing at what he's trying to do. His methods of trying to save Ferelden were either weakening it or he was doing things that were compromising core values and ethics of Ferelden culture and law. Even with the context of his orlesian paranoia, antagonizing the wardens and not focusing on the Blight was doomed to have his country destroyed if not for The Warden.
Also for curiosity's sake, what qualifies as a weak army? Even the most evil Warden can recruit formidable allies and there is a pragmatic/utilitarian argument that could be made for preserving the Anvil of the Void (albeit, it means trusting a mad woman with it).
An strong army would consist of golems, templars and werewolves, groups that you recruit with pragmatic/evil decisions. And they are surely much stronger then an army raised by an morally good warden. I once had the golems for the final battle, and they were pretty much all I needed to win. Just by keeping them healed with my mage, I didn't lost an single soldier.
An strong army would consist of golems, templars and werewolves, groups that you recruit with pragmatic/evil decisions. And they are surely much stronger then an army raised by an morally good warden. I once had the golems for the final battle, and they were pretty much all I needed to win. Just by keeping them healed with my mage, I didn't lost an single soldier.
Isn't the army assembled to fight the Denerim battle in Darkspawn Chronicles exactly what you've described? Templars in the market, golems in the Palace District, werewolves at Fort Drakon... and yet the darkspawn win. *game set match*
Retour en haut