Just a thought, but from my experience of qunari characters (Sten, Tallis, etc) Thedas-wide qun doesn't seem all that terrible. Most qunari seems content with their place - even mages. Everyone has a purpose and the qun seems to be based around understanding rather than blind belief which appeals to me.
I certainly prefer it to the zealots in the Chantry. What are your thoughts on the subject?
Just a thought, but from my experience of qunari characters (Sten, Tallis, etc) Thedas-wide qun doesn't seem all that terrible. Most qunari seems content with their place - even mages. I certainly prefer it to the zealots in the Chantry. What are your thoughts on the subject?
Sten says otherwise, actually. He mentions the Tal-Vashoth aren't a small sect but the biggest threat to the Qun if you get his approval high enough. The brainwashing and their equivalent to the Tranquility rite are used quite commonly and, even then, there's large numbers of Kossith who leave their ranks every year. In other words, the Qun is no more successful at suppressing dissent than any other regime.
We see with Isabella that there will always be people they despise and the Qun's treatment of mages goes without saying.
Of course, I admit, I also would prefer to be under the Andrastrians because I'm religious in real life--even if I disagree with their treatment of mages.
It may be the same reason why every nation in the world will never immediately abandon their customs and follow a uniform one.
What works for one group of people, especially a way that they have only know with little knowledge in alternatives, will not easily apply to another group who follows another path.
Good for Qunari, maybe. After someone is killed or turned into a zombie by qamek for attempting to rebel, it won't matter one way or the other.
Sten says otherwise, actually. He mentions the Tal-Vashoth aren't a small sect but the biggest threat to the Qun if you get his approval high enough. The brainwashing and their equivalent to the Tranquility rite are used quite commonly and, even then, there's large numbers of Kossith who leave their ranks every year. In other words, the Qun is no more successful at suppressing dissent than any other regime.
Good for Qunari, maybe. If you rebel and are killed or turned into a zombie by qamek, then it probably won't matter one way or the other.
I do get why the Qun appeals to City Elves and peasants, though.
After being **** on by the nobility and humans for so long, being suddenly elevated to an equal is a big deal.
Likewise, while your kids would have no choice in being merchants forever or farmers, that's how most families are in Thedas anyway.
Good for Qunari, maybe. If you rebel and are killed or turned into a zombie by qamek, then it probably won't matter one way or the other.
I have been under the impression that in DA's setting, hardly anyone has a say in what their standing in society will be, anyway.
I bet they've been lying about their progress on the Five Year Plan too.
The fact there's now enough Tal-Vashoth to form mercenary companies across Thedas and in enough numbers they aren't really considered all that remarkable speaks volumes.
The Qun also doesn't seem to have had THAT big of a hold on its members in Kirkwall either.
A few years amongst outsiders and they were leaving in droves.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
We don't know enough. We only know what two "fans" of the Qun say.
If all we knew of the Chantry was from a Chantry mother, we probably would automatically think it was awesome (outside of the blind religion haters). However, we've been provided far more nuanced views (Lel, Alistair, even Wynne).
We really haven't too much with the Qun (though what we have seen is plenty enough to break the Qun into pieces--Tallis mostly).
Well, the Qunari we've seen seem content, but I kind of have to take the contentment of a bunch of people who have been brainwashed from a young age into that contentment with a grain of salt.
From an outside perspective, it seems like a society of sticks in the mud. Though I suppose it's a step up for some.
I have been under the impression that in DA's setting, hardly anyone has a say in what their standing in society will be, anyway.
That's really why they keep getting converts in Dragon Age 2, isn't it? Even though they're not evangelizing.
"So, let me get this straight. If I join this, I don't get to sleep in crap."
"No."
"I won't ever starve either because the Qun will feed me as long as I do my job."
"Yes."
"I get paid a fair wage."
"As much as the Qunari use money, yes."
"I have to have an arranged marriage, though."
"Yes."
"Elves do that anyway. I'm in."
"I wasn't trying to co....fine. Get him a spear."
No, cultural uniformism is never a good thing.
I agree about uniformism, never a good idea. I know it would never happen, and I wouldn't want it to, I just wanted to pose the question.
Everyone has a purpose
Sure, the whole "everyone has a place in the Qun" sounds wonderful, until you check the work roster and realise you've been assigned to die protecting some poison gas that the Qun has no real interest in protecting anyway.
I have been under the impression that in DA's setting, hardly anyone has a say in what their standing in society will be, anyway.
The dwarves have the most rigid society outside of the Qun, but even they don't turn you into a mindless husk if you disobey. You are also free to leave at any time if you want and head for the surface. Dwarves are not limited to marriage within their caste, and they even have rules in place for which caste the child will belong to... it's not the same as what the Qunari practice, where everything is decided for you and your only options for mobility are the grave or the pens where they keep the rest of the qamek zombies.
Sure, the whole "everyone has a place in the Qun" sounds wonderful, until you check the work roster and realise you've been assigned to die protecting some poison gas that the Qun has no real interest in protecting anyway.
The whole Kirkwall thing was pretty much the biggest failure of the Qun they ever had. A bunch of guys who can never leave a city they despise because of their rules unless they find a book which, as far as they know, could be at the bottom of the ocean. They have no leads and no options for being recalled, even though one of them is the effective King of the Qunari (or one of them).
No wonder they decided just to invade it and start a war.
The dwarves have the most rigid society outside of the Qun, but even they don't turn you into a mindless husk if you disobey. You are also free to leave at any time if you want and head for the surface. Dwarves are not limited to marriage within their caste, and they even have rules in place for which caste the child will belong to... it's not the same as what the Qunari practice, where everything is decided for you and your only options for mobility are the grave or the pens where they keep the rest of the qamek zombies.
It's really the whole, "Freedom vs. Security" thing isn't it?
The Qunari promise you ZERO freedom.
It's completely off the table.
On the other hand, they promise you a reasonable amount of comfort and perfect fairness to the laws. History has shown, sadly, there's a lot of people who would gladly take the security over the freedom.
The problem is, you don't choose. You choose for all your descendants too.
Let's just not talk about Rivain, shall we? The Qun is quite the thing there, but there seem to be a lot of people who would rather keep venerating their seers and carrying on as they have been carrying on. It's led to a lot of strife, as I understand.
Well, the Qunari we've seen seem content, but I kind of have to take the contentment of a bunch of people who have been brainwashed from a young age into that contentment with a grain of salt.
From an outside perspective, it seems like a society of sticks in the mud. Though I suppose it's a step up for some.
We've also seen a lot of Tal-Vashoth wandering around, so maybe it's not so idyllic in Par Vollen after all...
Re-education for anyone that wants to form a sexual relationship of any kind? Mutilation of mages? Straight up slaughter of anyone that dares disagree with any of their beliefs? No thanks. I think the Qun is absolutely terrifying. An invasion of the Qun is equal on my count as the demons pouring out of the veil. Maybe worse.
Let's just not talk about Rivain, shall we? The Qun is quite the thing there, but there seem to be a lot of people who would rather keep venerating their seers and carrying on as they have been carrying on. It's led to a lot of strife, as I understand.
Rivain isn't really a hotbed of resistance to the Qun either. The thing is people CHOOSE to join the Qun in Rivain, choose to stay pagan, and CHOOSE to stay with the Chantry.
It's almost like people DISAGREE there.
(One reason why I love Dragon Age--everyone else is often a monoculture)
The whole Kirkwall thing was pretty much the biggest failure of the Qun they ever had. A bunch of guys who can never leave a city they despise because of their rules unless they find a book which, as far as they know, could be at the bottom of the ocean. They have no leads and no options for being recalled, even though one of them is the effective King of the Qunari (or one of them).
No wonder they decided just to invade it and start a war.
I have never seen a more spectacular hissy-fit over a lost book before.
The dwarves have the most rigid society outside of the Qun, but even they don't turn you into a mindless husk if you disobey. You are also free to leave at any time if you want and head for the surface. Dwarves are not limited to marriage within their caste, and they even have rules in place for which caste the child will belong to... it's not the same as what the Qunari practice, where everything is decided for you and your only options for mobility are the grave or the pens where they keep the rest of the qamek zombies.
This proves my point being no matter what you are born as, you lack a lot of life options in Thedas. Even being a Grey Warden recruit ends with being 'join or die.'
Commoners can only move up in the world by marrying nobles, who in turn are only interested in other nobles to expand their personal fortune. Elves as a whole are bottom dwellers either in skid row, or as nomads.
Tevintir seems to be a ruthless but opportunistic land, at the very least.
Re-education for anyone that wants to form a sexual relationship of any kind? Mutilation of mages? Straight up slaughter of anyone that dares disagree with any of their beliefs? No thanks. I think the Qun is absolutely terrifying. An invasion of the Qun is equal on my count as the demons pouring out of the veil. Maybe worse.
I am wondering if the Qun is as strictly enforced as it first appears. It wouldn't surprise me if sex still happens for recreation purposes.
Either that or the Qunari have some REALLY good drugs and alcohol for their celebrations to be any fun.
I have never seen a more spectacular hissy-fit over a lost book before.
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