I think it's entirely possible the Arishok might have invaded all of Thedas under the justification of "looking for the book" just because he couldn't stand sitting around Kirkwall anymore.
Of course, I can't entirely blame him.
Kirkwall was a [censored]hole.
Even by Thedas standards.
Just a thought, but from my experience of qunari characters (Sten, Tallis, etc) Thedas-wide qun doesn't seem all that terrible. Most qunari seems content with their place - even mages. Everyone has a purpose and the qun seems to be based around understanding rather than blind belief which appeals to me.
I certainly prefer it to the zealots in the Chantry. What are your thoughts on the subject?
No control over your life from the time you're born or joined, brainwashing for those who refuse to follow along, mages treated like they're not even people...
is that good?
let me think...
NO. I prefer to deal with the chantry and the crazy templars, than having to submit myself, sew my mouth, and have a master that pets me for the rest of my life.
Screw the Qun.
This proves my point being no matter what you are born as, you lack a lot of life options in Thedas. Even being a Grey Warden recruit ends with being 'join or die.'
Commoners can only move up in the world by marrying nobles, who in turn are only interested in other nobles to expand their personal fortune. Elves as a whole are bottom dwellers either in skid row, or as nomads.
Tevintir seems to be a ruthless but opportunistic land, at the very least.
In the case of the Grey Wardens, we are talking about an order of warriors who swear oaths of fealty. Although they can conscript whoever they want, I think that this is mainly used to get people out of situations like prison, the Circle, the Templars, etc... I don't remember any times when the Wardens actively forced someone to join. As far as the "or die" part goes, the Wardens do not force anyone to join on penalty of death... if we're talking about Jory, you can ask Duncan about that and he says that he did what he had to because Jory pulled a blade on him (which he did). There is no oppression or forced conscription on the part of the Grey Wardens...
The problem with the overall argument, however, is that it ignores freedom that goes beyond social class. A random qunari may be chosen to be an Arvaraad based on some qualifications their superiors believe they possess. Their options are to succeed within that role, die, or attempt to flee and then die or become lobotomized. A random human peasant can become a farmer, a merchant, a blacksmith, a tailor, or whatever else they want, within reason... Obviously they aren't going to become nobles through hard work, but this doesn't mean that the system is on par with heavy restrictions enforced by the Qun.
I am wondering if the Qun is as strictly enforced as it first appears. It wouldn't surprise me if sex still happens for recreation purposes.
Either that or the Qunari have some REALLY good drugs and alcohol for their celebrations to be any fun.
Well, Sten did mention that sometimes their celebrations end in mass executions to bring the revelers back into line... on the other hand, these celebrations mostly consist of chanting and drinking tea. There's no booze. If the people won't stop chanting even when they see a guy approaching with a battleaxe, maybe there's some special ingredient in the tea... I dunno.
As far as the "or die" part goes, the Wardens do not force anyone to join on penalty of death... if we're talking about Jory, you can ask Duncan about that and he says that he did what he had to because Jory pulled a blade on him (which he did). There is no oppression or forced conscription on the part of the Grey Wardens...
But no matter what happens, you have to drink Darkspawn blood, which can potentially kill you. Even if you go through everything, willingly or not, you can still die before you finish your initiation in some gamble of fate.
The problem with the overall argument, however, is that it ignores freedom that goes beyond social class. A random qunari may be chosen to be an Arvaraad based on some qualifications their superiors believe they possess. Their options are to succeed within that role, die, or attempt to flee and then die or become lobotomized. A random human peasant can become a farmer, a merchant, a blacksmith, a tailor, or whatever else they want, within reason... Obviously they aren't going to become nobles through hard work, but this doesn't mean that the system is on par with heavy restrictions enforced by the Qun.
It has already been said before, in that the Qun versus another society would take differing stances on freedom vs. security. The qun guarantees equality barring mages, unless you rock the boat. Anyone else has no such guarantee, but it is still a small chance you could advance from where you originally were.
Well, Sten did mention that sometimes their celebrations end in mass executions to bring the revelers back into line... on the other hand, these celebrations mostly consist of chanting and drinking tea. There's no booze. If the people won't stop chanting even when they see a guy approaching with a battleaxe, maybe there's some special ingredient in the tea... I dunno.
Ok...you KNOW your system of government is oppressive when they EXECUTE people just to calm parties down.
But no matter what happens, you have to drink Darkspawn blood, which can potentially kill you. Even if you go through everything, willingly or not, you can still die before you finish your initiation in some gamble of fate.
Eh... I don't really see the connection between the Joining ritual and some kind of forced life or death gamble. It's true that they don't tell you in advance, but it's up to you whether or not you wish to join them. If you agree to join a group without knowing what their initiation involves, that's on you, not them.
It has already been said before, in that the Qun versus another society would take differing stances on freedom vs. security. The qun guarantees equality barring mages, unless you rock the boat. Anyone else has no such guarantee, but it is still a small chance you could advance from where you originally were.
Fair enough, but the topic is whether or not this is a good idea for the whole world. Not everyone is going to agree to this way of life. You think a noble is going to give up their wealth and power so that some random person can assign them a new role? Probably not... I'm not even against the Qun itself. I think it's a good enough system of government for those who wish to follow that path. I am simply saying that it's not something that can be applied to the entire world without first killing off or lobotomizing about 70% of the inhabitants of existing societies.
The problem with the overall argument, however, is that it ignores freedom that goes beyond social class. A random qunari may be chosen to be an Arvaraad based on some qualifications their superiors believe they possess. Their options are to succeed within that role, die, or attempt to flee and then die or become lobotomized. A random human peasant can become a farmer, a merchant, a blacksmith, a tailor, or whatever else they want, within reason... Obviously they aren't going to become nobles through hard work, but this doesn't mean that the system is on par with heavy restrictions enforced by the Qun.
Of course, in practice, if Thedas is like anything like Medieval Europe then most people didn't change professions from generation to generation.
There's also something to be said for a government which exists to protect and look after its citizens.
Which most governments in Thedas do not.
I would never approve of any all encompassing world-wide religion, never never never, not even in a fictional world, I just wouldn't inflict that on it. Mort does a pretty good job of explaining how I feel about it up there in his post. Individuality and feedom please.
Ehhh, there are Pros and Cons. If the Darkspawn lived under Par Vollen do you think the Qunari would wait for blights to fight them? Do you not think their entire culture would be based around wiping them out and they would have finished with it hundreds of years ago?
Do you think things like Loghain allowing a blight to take off because he wanted to remove the king would happen? And yes, they're horrible to mages, but if certain people in our world were born with Uzi's for hands and a 50% chance of developing paranoid schizophrenia do you not think there would be strict controls?
There's also something to be said for a government which exists to protect and look after its citizens.
Which most governments in Thedas do not.
Yes... but does the Qun exist to protect and look after its citizens? Seems to me that the Qun exists to protect itself. We know that all members of the Qun have a purpose, shelter and food - but what if your purpose is to die? What if, as it had been mentioned, your purpose is to get killed during the attempt to steal a poisonous gas? What if your purpose is to get executed after the celebration in order to make an example? You are expendable and you're supposed to be content with it. Not exactly the "looking after" people usually have in mind.
Ehhh, there are Pros and Cons. If the Darkspawn lived under Par Vollen do you think the Qunari would wait for blights to fight them? Do you not think their entire culture would be based around wiping them out and they would have finished with it hundreds of years ago?
Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they would have never found a way to wipe out the darkspawn. Maybe their only purpose would have been to be wiped out themselves and serve as the reminder to the rest of the world.
Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they would have never found a way to wipe out the darkspawn. Maybe their only purpose would have been to be wiped out themselves and serve as the reminder to the rest of the world.
Kind of confused about what you just said. I'm talking about the pre-5th-blight attitude to the Darkspawn, the human kingdoms ignore it. They let the dwarves deal with an eternal blight and just hoped/assumed that it would never happen again.
The Qunari are very much about dealing with things now and realism. Periods between blights are when the darkspawn are weakest and no one does anything about it.
Also, the Qun wouldn't be stupid enough to allow female grey wardens/soliders. Given how the Darkspawn reproduce.
Also, the Qun wouldn't be stupid enough to allow female grey wardens/soliders. Given how the Darkspawn reproduce.
David Gaider said that once the Wardens find out about Broodmothers, most Female Wardens decide to commit suicide rather than go on Callings.
And anyone who would deny Fiona a chance to be a Grey Warden or the Warden Commander herself, is quite dumb.
David Gaider said that once the Wardens find out about Broodmothers, most Female Wardens decide to commit suicide rather than go on Callings.
And anyone who would deny Fiona a chance to be a Grey Warden or the Warden Commander herself, is quite dumb.
It comes down to risk/reward. Unless they have some form of way to commit suicide in the field with a 0% chance of capture your doing more harm than good. Even the most prominent/powerful wardens are not going to kill a few thousand darkspawn, yet you run the risk of creating that many when you fight them as a woman. If your a man the most that can happen is you get eaten
Kind of confused about what you just said. I'm talking about the pre-5th-blight attitude to the Darkspawn, the human kingdoms ignore it. They let the dwarves deal with an eternal blight and just hoped/assumed that it would never happen again.
The Qunari are very much about dealing with things now and realism. Periods between blights are when the darkspawn are weakest and no one does anything about it.
Okay, now I'm confused. I agree that the pre-5th-Blight attitude of other races was... well, left a lot to be desired. I understand that the Qunari wouldn't have sent a small group of outcasts to the Deep Roads and said "your purpose is to die gloriously, go and make mama-Qun proud". They would have launched a full head-on invasion (poor darkspawn artisans...). They would have dedicated themselves to the fight, but what if this would not be enough? The only way to stop the Blight is to kill the Archdemon. The only way to kill the Archdemon is to let a Grey Warden do it. The Qunari had nothing like the Order, they had no idea how to deal with the Blights. My point is that if they had always lived with the darkspawn lurking right below, they could have created something like the Order and could have found the way to stop the Blight. But maybe they would have failed.
It comes down to risk/reward. Unless they have some form of way to commit suicide in the field with a 0% chance of capture your doing more harm than good. Even the most prominent/powerful wardens are not going to kill a few thousand darkspawn, yet you run the risk of creating that many when you fight them as a woman. If your a man the most that can happen is you get eaten
I disagree. Also, we don't know how many are gestated by a Broodmother or if all become them. After all, we encounter six or seven Broodmothers total and thousands of Darkspawn.
The numbers should be evenly distributed but they're not.
Ogres are Qunari based forms. Just saying...... Darkspawn already are fully aware of Qunari, Qunari however are not. They would get decimated just as much as anyone else against Darkspawn. However, only one play through out of a dozen did I allow a chance for a 6th Blight according to the epilogues, most says Darkspawn are rarely seen anymore in deep roads and Wardens are having issues even finding them.
I disagree. Also, we don't know how many are gestated by a Broodmother or if all become them. After all, we encounter six or seven Broodmothers total and thousands of Darkspawn.
The numbers should be evenly distributed but they're not.
We're told that Broodmothers give birth to 20-50 children at one time and are capable of producing thousands of darkspawn each during their lifetimes.http://dragonage.wik...iki/Broodmother. We know that not all females captured survive the process of being turned into Broodmothers, if they did no one would ever survive a blight.
Glad there is no numbers on how many females from Lothering went into the deep roads.........
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