There was that Saarebas in Dragon Age: Redemption who escaped and attempted to destroy the world because he had been told all his life that if he escaped he would destroy the world.
haven't seen it, is this part of Gaiders Dragon Age script or someone elses? Does the events of Redemption correspond to the games? the fact that this Saarebas escaped means he wasnt of the Qun mind, or that writer didn't have a good grasp of the Qun and how it handles Saarebas.
Of course, Dragon Age: Redemption is all about a Saarebas who comes to the conclusion that since the Qun teaches that mages are an evil, volatile, and destructive thing then the only way to follow the Qun as a mage is to be an evil, volatile, and destructive thing.
I'm calling the writer behind that series out on not having a good grasp on what was eventually written about the Qun and its mages. The Qun does not teach that mages are evil, it teaches that mages are dangerous things, that need to be treated as such, the best real world comparison is how the governments with nuclear armed weapons keep such things under the highest level of security, that's how the Qunari see mages, they are dangerous but its for that reason they are respected if not feared, but called inherently evil no, for to the Qun they are weapons, dangerous weapons and its the fault of those who handle such weapons if said weapon is used improperly and causes harm to others unintentionally.
I'm calling the writer behind that series out on not having a good grasp on what was eventually written about the Qun and its mages. The Qun does not teach that mages are evil, it teaches that mages are dangerous things, that need to be treated as such, the best real world comparison, is how the governments of nuclear armed weapons keep such things under the highest level of security, that's how the Qunari see mages, they are dangerous but its for that reason they are respected if not feared, but called inherently evil no, for to the Qun they are weapons, dangerous weapons and its the fault of those who handle such weapons if said weapon is used improperly and causes harm to others unintentionally.
I think it's probably the way it is for Mages in Thedas.
The Templars are not meant to be the jailers of mages. They're meant to be mages' protectors.
They protect mages from outsiders who intend to lynch them and they protect mages from demonic possession.
That got lost somewhere.
Just a thought, but from my experience of qunari characters (Sten, Tallis, etc) Thedas-wide qun doesn't seem all that terrible. Most qunari seems content with their place - even mages. Everyone has a purpose and the qun seems to be based around understanding rather than blind belief which appeals to me.
I certainly prefer it to the zealots in the Chantry. What are your thoughts on the subject?
Are you saying that there are no zealots in qun? I think they are both the same. It is like comparing a rotten apple to a rotten peach. Which one would you eat? I certainly won't eat any of them.
There is one misconception about the treatment of Saarebas here that needs to be corrected. While it is true they do endure some mutilation, a lot of this was done in order to prevent them from harming themselves and others. Their place in society however is honored, and respected for those that acknowledge what they are and submit to the Qun and its view on mages. They know that they are dangerous and that by mastering themselves they uphold the truest fundamentals of the Qun. So yes it looks bad from the outside but from the inside a Qun minded Saarebas, and to other Qunari it is seen as the ultimate selflessness that the Qun aspires to, hence they are honored and respected members of the society, and what they endure is simply another means of safety and protection of others from themselves.
Selfnessless? they don't know anything else in life, of course they will submit to it!! they were programmed to think they are weapons from the beginning of their lives! mark me only one tal-vashot or vashot mage that submit themselves to this slavery and auto-mutilation and I'll eat my words.
The only good Qun follower, is a dead one.
Selfnessless? they don't know anything else in life, of course they will submit to it!! they were programmed to think they are weapons from the beginning of their lives! mark me only one tal-vashot or vashot mage that submit themselves to this slavery and auto-mutilation and I'll eat my words.
The only good Qun follower, is a dead one.
Eh, again, I can't be too hard on followers of the Qun.
Qun followers eat and don't get spit on because they pointy ears or no titles.
Non-Qun followers do.
That's hard logic to argue with.
I'm calling the writer behind that series out on not having a good grasp on what was eventually written about the Qun and its mages. The Qun does not teach that mages are evil, it teaches that mages are dangerous things, that need to be treated as such, the best real world comparison is how the governments with nuclear armed weapons keep such things under the highest level of security, that's how the Qunari see mages, they are dangerous but its for that reason they are respected if not feared, but called inherently evil no, for to the Qun they are weapons, dangerous weapons and its the fault of those who handle such weapons if said weapon is used improperly and causes harm to others unintentionally.
If you must know it was written by Felecia Day.
The Qun simply isn't applicable to the entire planet when you take into account the fact that most people prefer determining their own course in life. It has to be voluntary or it will not work. For example, mages all across Thedas recently rebelled against the Circle system. Who here truly believes that these same mages would willingly subjugate themselves to the physical restraint and mutilation that sarebaas undergo? Whether the Qun is or is not a viable system isn't the issue. I'm sure it works well enough for most of the people born into it, as they have no concept of the life they are missing out on. To a penniless begger, it might seem more appealing that eating scraps. The majority of the world isn't going to accept the Qun, however... there's just no way that could happen.
What are your thoughts on the subject?
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG. Everything being systematic and predetermined is just... no.
Of course, Dragon Age: Redemption is all about a Saarebas who comes to the conclusion that since the Qun teaches that mages are an evil, volatile, and destructive thing then the only way to follow the Qun as a mage is to be an evil, volatile, and destructive thing.
For me the only thing good about Redemption was that Reaver girl, Nyre I think, she was pretty cool and funny. The Saarabas was pretty lame.
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I don't think a worldwide system of the Qun would work. I think an ideology like that has it's limits and can only sort of function on a small scale.
I suppose whether people accept the Qun will be determined by how it's presented.
Both the traditional ways of preaching the Qunari way have their appeals.
And
Guest_Magick_*
If Saarebas separate from their keeper, they must be slain, or commit suicide, according to the Qun. The chained armor the Saarebas are forced to wear can immobilize them through a device held by an Arvaarad. The Qunari also invented a mobile version of the magic-blocking device which makes mages unable to cast spells – it is in the form of a collar
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Saarebas
No thank you, OP.
I don't think a worldwide anything is good. People are far too diverse to be crammed into one doctrine. Frankly, it's diversity in any society, nation, world...that makes it strong.
Would a worldwide Qun be good by modern day standards? Hell no. Compared to what we know of the way people live in DA.... I'm not sure. Maybe, maybe not. Would everyone be happy? Certainly not. Would, overall, the majority of people be better off under the Qun then they are under the various current governments and belief systems? Quite possibly. And which is more important? The happiness of an individual or that of the masses?
Would a worldwide Qun be good by modern day standards? Hell no. Compared to what we know of the way people live in DA.... I'm not sure. Maybe, maybe not. Would everyone be happy? Certainly not. Would, overall, the majority of people be better off under the Qun then they are under the various current governments and belief systems? Quite possibly. And which is more important? The happiness of an individual or that of the masses?
That's the Qun in a nutshell. Mages and people who like freedom aside, everyone is happier.
I don't think there's any such thing as "happiness" to a Qunari. In the teachings of the Qun, to be "happy" you must first be selfish, and the Qun doesn't really allow that. You're alive and treated as a resource, I think is the best that can be said for existing in Qunari society.
Happier? No. I don't get the impression happier is a goal of the Qun. You see, the Qun doesn't care about individuals in the slightest. The Qun is set up to care only about the Qun as a whole. There is no happiness in the Qun.
I think this is where many people seem to disconnect. You assume that life in the Qun would be JUST like your life now, except everyone is "equal". That is NOT the case. They are a living breathing MACHINE society. They value efficiency and devotion to the Qun.... nothing else. There is no families, they wouldn't live in individual homes but barracks. They would have no 'possessions' of their own. Their 'friends' would only be those that they work close to each day. You would be working long hours each and every day with little to no rest time. You would always be under the watchful eyes of the secret police and you can't trust any other Qunari should you start to think dissenting thoughts, as ANY of them would turn you in instantly should they know.
If should become injured or sick, sure they might have the best medical treatments around, but if its something they can't fix and your ever unlikely to be able to return to a productive life... they would kill you. They care nothing for the individual, only your worth to society.
Individuals are nothing more than cells in the Qunari body, and a body spends no thought or compassion on cells dying if that benefits the whole. Right now in your body there are cells on 'patrol' looking for cells that no longer perform their function and eradicate them.
Qunari values are not anything like the values that the vast majority of people hold dear. I would be willing to bet that 90% of converts to the Qun eventually go through the re-education process (ie mind-wiping) simply because they found the Qun to be wholly different from the idealistic vision that it paints for itself.
I think Sten and Tallis both seemed extremely happy.
Sten being fulfilled and enjoying his life.
Tallis being Tallis.
So I'd argue otherwise.
Sten I think saw some of his first glimpses of happiness when he was AWAY from the Qun. Cookies, or when he was caught picking flowers, or playing with the kitten. You gifted him with ART pieces because it wasn't something he ever got to experience in his own lands.
I won't touch Tallis. She was a walking contradiction. Spouting her 'love' for the Qun and yet doing EVERYTHING contrary to its teachings.
Sten I think saw some of his first glimpses of happiness when he was AWAY from the Qun. Cookies, or when he was caught picking flowers, or playing with the kitten. You gifted him with ART pieces because it wasn't something he ever got to experience in his own lands.
I won't touch Tallis. She was a walking contradiction. Spouting her 'love' for the Qun and yet doing EVERYTHING contrary to its teachings.
I think when dissecting a religion, you have to understand the "weekend warrior" Qunari as well as the fundamentalists. Sten is how a Quanri is supposed to be but he's got many reasonable views and many unreasonable ones.
Tallis is a horrible Qunari but there's horrible Chantry members too. I think it's important to remember Sten saying that he's NOT an example of all Qunari any more than Sir Gregoir is an example of all humans. He's a soldier and acts like that because he's a soldier.
"People are not one thing. Anymore than elves are pointy eared people who excel at poverty."
I think it's very likely that Qunari who aren't professional soldiers act very differently from Sten and the Arishok.
I think we don't know enough about the Qun to understand the people who live under it and comprehend their reasons for following. It was mentioned that most people in Thedas did only experience the qunari through the biased writings of brother Genitivi. We've only experienced the arishok in DA II so far, we don't know anything about the Arigena and the qunari who are not part of the military.
I think we've only heard how their society works in theory, the real experience may appear to be a bit different. How does the daily life of a qunari - who's not part of the military - look like? How does their social life look? We don't know anything of that.
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