203 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

Because by the looks of it, it looks like both. It looks like another rally everyone to stop a great evil threat plot which Bioware has already done in the past. It really does look like Mass Effect 3 in Thedas, which ME3 in turn was a mix between DAO (but better told and woven than DAO) and ME1 (however trilogies often times go full circle, with the third being like the first). Just replace Reapers with Demons, replace Shepard with the Inquisition, and replace the various races of the ME3 universe with various factions of Thedas. Oh and it looks like picking up people to join the Inquisition just like picking up war assets in ME3. Why not just call it ME3 in Thedas?

 

Also it also looks like that famous Bioware Cliché Chart has been filled up again. Bioware has a clear history of recycling plots, character archetypes, and plot elements. And when they do break cliché, simply put, the fans don't like it, so its not just Bioware that's part of the problem. say what you want about DA2 and its plot, it was very unique for a WRPG. A story on how a society collapses and how the "hero" was involved. So yeah, your choices didn't matter, but that was the point. You couldn't stop what was coming. DA2 would have been utterly brilliant if it was not rushed out the door and in obvious beta where it seems the writers could not tell all the story they wanted while having obvious rough edges, KOTOR II bad. Nevermind DA2's more grey and less clichéd cast that for the most part, breaks Bioware's archetypes. But no, the "fans" didn't like it (and I mean the story and how it went), it was not DAO 2.0, it wasn't typical Bioware power fantasy and here we go. Then ME3's ending comes along, same deal here. was rushed and not well executed (later fixed), but here we go again, the final ending wasn't like ME1 and ME2, therefore its "bad". However, ME3's ending completely fit in with the ugly truths and themes that form the foundations of the entire Mass Effect universe. So yeah, I do blame the fans partially if Bioware goes back to clichéd, formulaic, take no risk power fantasy stories while companies like CD Projeckt RED buries Bioware with storytelling that takes risks and breaks the mold. I do not like DAI's chances against TW3.

 

So I want Bioware, without major spoilers, of course, to tell me how DAI's story and characters are going to be different from Bioware's past games. How is it different? Because I want to be wrong. I want DAI to be unique, that challenges both the writers and the fans, to not provide easy answers or simply populist power fantasy storytelling, to actually have morally grey tough choices instead of good and bad, and actually break from Biowarisms and Bioware formula.

[Willowhugger]

To treat your subject seriously,

"Cliche" and "Classic" are two sides of the same coin. The most popular Dragon Age was Origins and it's one of the most popular video fantasy video games of all time. The other being the Legend of Zelda and that was the most cliche plot of all time (evil wizard, Princess, the only thing missing was a dragon). It doesn't matter how many times you tell a story, it matters HOW YOU TELL IT.

Origins was told awesomely.

 

I expect Inquisitor to be told awesomely too.

[Hydwn]

It's the Monomyth.  The story of the hero.  The quest of the lone hero or the hero and his small band to find and win the one thing that will save the tribe/kingdom/world/universe - to go to unknown lands, and fight with monsters.  It gets told in every society, in every culture, in every language, for a reason.  It seems woven into the deepest parts of our psychology...

 

Most of the criticisms of Dragon Age 2 come down to the fact that it wasn't the Monomyth.  It was just the story of some guy, who's mostly a witness to history, whose major contributions are mostly blunders.  Fans reacted badly.  They said they wanted the story in Origins.  They wanted the Monomyth again.

 

And they're getting that.  Which is good.  I liked Hawke's story, but it isn't what people want when they reach for a story labelled fantasy.  They want the Monomyth, like the ancestors sitting around a fire asked for millennia ago

[Ajna]

DA isn't a trilogy...

[Dubya75]

Bioware's story telling and lore and "formulae" is some of the best (if not the best) in the business.

So instead of coming here and bitching about something you really don't even know much about - the Inquisition story and game progression - why don't YOU instead spend your time and energy writing that incredible game you are obviously capable of doing, hence your criticism, hmmmmmm?

[Hydwn]

On the question of originality, there are good ways to do it and bad ones.  When I did my literature degree, we had to wade through a lot of awful writing considered "great writing" by professors, because it "broke all narrative conventions."  Which is literary-speak for being unreadable.  This was particularly true of some writers labelled Modernist and some labelled Post-Modern.

 

(James Joyce and Julia Kristeva, I'm looking at you >_<)

 

Certain things are just needed for a great story.  And for a great hero story.  You need all-consuming stakes to involve the reader/listener/viewer/player.  There needs to be a real sense of immanent threat.  And you need to feel that the hero's actions matter, that in the end the world was saved because they were there.

 

That said, there is room for originality.  The Monomyth's details change with time and place.  The Ancient Greeks or the Tokugawa Japanese would not have told Dragon Age Inquisition's story even in another format.  There are very modern elements here, even in what we know.  Female and gay heroes possible - sadly a rarity in the world's Monomyths.  The hole in the sky almost seems to have environmental overtones.   The peace conference being disrupted by someone hellbent on war - the racial unrest with the elves - everyone squabbling over power while real crises get ignored - all that is very modern, and so original.  

 

So are the specific characters who step into the archetypal roles.

 

But if there's one thing Ive learnt about BSN, someone out there hates everything.  This is the game fans clamoured for after DA2.  If you don't like it, you're welcome to play something else.

[Ajna]

On the question of originality, there are good ways to do it and bad ones.  When I did my literature degree, we had to wade through a lot of awful writing considered "great writing" by professors, because it "broke all narrative conventions."  Which is literary-speak for being unreadable.  This was particularly true of some writers labelled Modernist and some labelled Post-Modern.

 

(James Joyce and Julia Kristeva, I'm looking at you >_<)

 

Certain things are just needed for a great story.  And for a great hero story.  You need all-consuming stakes to involve the reader/listener/viewer/player.  There needs to be a real sense of immanent threat.  And you need to feel that the hero's actions matter, that in the end the world was saved because they were there.

 

That said, there is room for originality.  The Monomyth's details change with time and place.  The Ancient Greeks or the Tokugawa Japanese would not have told Dragon Age Inquisition's story even in another format.  There are very modern elements here, even in what we know.  Female and gay heroes possible - sadly a rarity in the world's Monomyths.  The hole in the sky almost seems to have environmental overtones.   The peace conference being disrupted by someone hellbent on war - the racial unrest with the elves - everyone squabbling over power while real crises get ignored - all that is very modern, and so original.  

 

So are the specific characters who step into the archetypal roles.

 

But if there's one thing Ive learnt about BSN, someone out there hates everything.  This is the game fans clamoured for after DA2.  If you don't like it, you're welcome to play something else.

I like you Hydwn...I do.  Edited for gif...because it's true.

 

[ManOfSteel]

Bioware's story telling and lore and "formulae" is some of the best (if not the best) in the business.
So instead of coming here and bitching about something you really don't even know much about - the Inquisition story and game progression - why don't YOU instead spend your time and energy writing that incredible game you are obviously capable of doing, hence your criticism, hmmmmmm?

People are allowed to criticise something that they themselves couldn't do. I'm not a gourmet chef but if I'm throwing down money for an expensive meal, I'm allowed to criticise it if I don't like it.

Now I disagree with the OP on essentially every front, but don't pull then "If you don't like it, do better" card. It's silly. Are you honestly going to sit there and tell us that you've never criticised a game? or a film? or a book? Don't be ridiculous. You're allowed to be critical of something. Criticism is one of the many things that allows people to further improve and refine their efforts.

[Dubya75]

People are allowed to criticise something that they themselves couldn't do. I'm not a gourmet chef but if I'm throwing down money for an expensive meal, I'm allowed to criticise it if I don't like it.

Now I disagree with the OP on essentially every front, but don't pull then "If you don't like it, do better" card. It's silly. Are you honestly going to sit there and tell us that you've never criticised a game? or a film? or a book? Don't be ridiculous. You're allowed to be critical of something. Criticism is one of the many things that allows people to further improve and refine their efforts.

 

Yes, but will you criticize your meal before you even know what it tastes like? Perhaps, but that's just silly, isn't it!

 

Criticism based on ignorance is very silly.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

Yes, but will you criticize your meal before you even know what it tastes like? Perhaps, but that's just silly, isn't it!

 

Criticism based on ignorance is very silly.

 

hm... not ignorance, prejudice. i'd assume (after actually reading the OP) based on previous titles.

 

anyway, i concur - story is bound to be quite generic (or at least following some known patterns), taking criticism of DA2 into account. but hey, maybe there will be something shiny in there? i think it's worth to be open minded, no?

but i'm not bothered by generic, well... as long as it's fun

[Wildecarde]

Hey, if I could make bank just by checking the same boxes over and over again, you can bet your butt that's what I'd be doing.

[KaiserShep]

Now, I love ME3 and all, but better told and better woven than DA:O?

 

Nuh-freakin'-uh.

[nici2412]

From what i have seen so far, Inquisiton will have the same hero saves the world 0815 fantasy story like almost every bioware game. But did you expect anything else, after the critism on dragon age 2? I thought the idea behind the dragon age 2 story was good (much better than the simple and boring origns story) but they failed with the execution. But well, it's a bit early to judge . Maybe bioware will suprise us.

[Kingthlayer]

Can one really say Projekt Red buries BioWare with storytelling when the Witcher is pretty much fanfiction?  I love The Witcher series, I put Witcher 2 as the best game of 2011(over Skyrim) and likely the best game in the last few years(so over GTA 5)

 

But that doesn't change the fact that the game isn't written by the guy who actually created the world, it's fanfiction, fantastic fanfiction but fanfiction all the same.

 

Based on that alone, Projekt Red isn't even on the same level as BioWare when it comes to storytelling.  When they come out with their own game and world created by their writers, perhaps it will be better than BioWare games, but until then, it's fanfiction.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Yes the story is formulaic. I don't mind personally.

 

While the OP is correct that there are ME elements showing up in Dragon Age games, starting with DA2, it isn't the story really. DA2 was not about collecting a group of specialists to run a suicide mission. What they did copy was game mechanic type things. Iconic looks for companions, more limited skill and weapon sets for each class, limited conversations with companions, especially in regards to romances, for instance.

 

ME3 is only superficially similar to DAI in story.

 

Skyhold vs Normandy: Sort of? It seems Skyhold is the central area where you get missions and control where to go on the map, like Normandy. I'm not sure if this is really how DAI is implemented.

 

Galaxy at war vs Thedas at war? Yes it's similar but I doubt we will have the situation where the demons destroy most of the known world, like in ME3.

 

Geth/Quarian vs Mage/Templar. Superficially similar. We are probably not going to be making a choice to wipe out one side in favour of the other.

 

Modding weapons a la ME3? Not really. The DAI crafting system seems more complex than that. In ME3 you can't create new weapons from raw materials. It's only similar in that you can add a new hilt to get a new effect, I believe.

[Dabrikishaw]

Oh, you're back.

[Steelcan]

OP asking the hard questions,

 

the answer is probably "yes there are going to be lots of tropes and cliches that BioWare has used in the past"

 

but I'm ok with that, playing cards close to the chest this time around is a good idea given how DA2 went, even as it is I'm worried there's too much DA2 influence

[AresKeith]

Oh hey TX

[Majestic Jazz]

I agree with the OP. I to enjoyed the fresh take of DA2 and how it was more of a personal game that told the story of a person, his family and his friends. No he was not some almighty Warden who saved the lands from a blight. He was not some figure who saved the galaxy from a sure doom. No he was just a special person who was in the middle of some important events. This is also why I ejoyed KOTOR 2 over the original. The Exile wasnt a huge figure like Revan. No she was just a Jedi who had a special connection to the force. Her story was about the true nature of the force and the role it plays in the galaxy. It was more of a philisophical story than a heroic story.

However that was not enough. Fans wanted to feel big and godlike. They wanted to be like the Warden and Shepard, not Hawke and the Exile. So now that is what Bioware is doing with DAI. Making you the sole figure who is going to save the world from destruction.

It is actuall US, the consumers to blame for Hollywood and the videogame industry for not taking risk and trying to create a new formula or a way of telling stories.

Sad...

[Arachlia]

While I did like alot story of DA2 and idea behind it, that game had it's troubles, most of it likely due to short development time (it could have been so much more )

 

Also, Dragon Age: Exile would have been much cooler name, but that's beside the point.

 

 

But as for me, I think DAI and it's story looks quite good. Rest I will say when I have actually played game.

 

 

 

[TheJediSaint]

Inquisition's probably going to have a LONG page on TV Tropes.

[Steelcan]

I agree with the OP. I to enjoyed the fresh take of DA2 and how it was more of a personal game that told the story of a person, his family and his friends. No he was not some almighty Warden who saved the lands from a blight. He was not some figure who saved the galaxy from a sure doom. No he was just a special person who was in the middle of some important events. This is also why I ejoyed KOTOR 2 over the original. The Exile wasnt a huge figure like Revan. No she was just a Jedi who had a special connection to the force. Her story was about the true nature of the force and the role it plays in the galaxy. It was more of a philisophical story than a heroic story.

However that was not enough. Fans wanted to feel big and godlike. They wanted to be like the Warden and Shepard, not Hawke and the Exile. So now that is what Bioware is doing with DAI. Making you the sole figure who is going to save the world from destruction.

It is actuall US, the consumers to blame for Hollywood and the videogame industry for not taking risk and trying to create a new formula or a way of telling stories.

Sad...

there's also the fact that DA2 was a steaming pile of horseshit, might have something to do with its relative unpopularity

[Jazzpha]

I didn't want to feel omnipotent in DA2. I just wanted agency, which bioware's games had conditioned me to expect. It wasn't there. Womp womp.

As far as DAI's overarching plot, yes I'm sure the main questline will be fairly archetypical. But that's not what I'm buying into DAI for. I'm buying into it for the characters, their relationships with one another, and the scope of the world itself.

As others in this thread have said, execution in fantasy matters far more than concept. If you want to be reductivist, you can break down any story you want into a list of familiar tropes (which is why I despise TVTropes with a burning passion). But the building blocks of the story aren't what matters most. What matters is how awesome the final building is.

[Majestic Jazz]

there's also the fact that DA2 was a steaming pile of horseshit, might have something to do with its relative unpopularity

 

Yes, it was a rushed title with reused backgrounds. It was also a step back from DAO in terms of hardcore RPG elements. ALL of these are reasons why people hated DA2. However, they aren't the only ones.

 

Another popular "hate" for DA2 was the fact that your "hero" wasnt as epic as the Warden and that he/she felt too....normal. 

 

Again, we the consumers are just too closed minded to accept anything different. Hence why Hollywood is the way it is and why the gaming industry is heading there as well.