168 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

I imagine the good Templars, like the good mages, will submit without question before the Inquisition.

[-TC1989-]

I never said they had the right. But neither do mages have the right to destroy what they want, when they want. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me. My focus on my first comment... was the more mages do crap like this, the more I understand why Templars exist. And when people just comment "Templars should die".. it's pretty damn morbid in my opinion. All the way up until that moment from Anders, I was seriously conflicted what I wanted to go with. But when I saw how crazy he had become, I was out. Not to mention he would not tell me what he was planning, so thank god I didn't assist with a terrorist act.

 

You want to say everyone in that building should die? Go ahead. But that to me is pretty unforgivable.

[Muspade]

We have one good Templar in DAMP.

[Lulupab]

I never said they had the right. But neither do mages have the right to destroy what they want, when they want. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me. My focus on my first comment... was the more mages do crap like this, the more I understand why Templars exist. And when people just comment "Templars should die".. it's pretty damn morbid in my opinion. All the way up until that moment from Anders, I was seriously conflicted what I wanted to go with. But when I saw how crazy he had become, I was out. Not to mention he would not tell me what he was planning, so thank god I didn't assist with a terrorist act.

You want to say everyone in that building should die? Go ahead. But that to me is pretty unforgivable.

Just to make things clear, If Anders is a 100% friend he will tell you that he has done something but he does not want Hawke connected to it in any way. Its a star dialogue that only appears if he is a 100% friend. The text is "Don't you trust me?". Choosing that will make Anders confess he has been planning something incriminating but doesn't want Hawke involved. Trust works both ways.

Templars don't need to die, but there are Templars who need to be put down. And I don't necessarily mean kill by putting down. Relived of duty at the very least, locked up etc... Templars recruit too easily, rapists, insane people, pedophiles, all join easily. Afterall the ONLY requirement for becoming a a Templar is wanting to become one.

[-TC1989-]

Just to make things clear, If Anders is a 100% friend he will tell you that he has done something but he does not want Hawke connected to it in any way. Its a star dialogue that only appears if he is a 100% friend. The text is "Don't you trust me?". Choosing that will make Anders confess he has been planning something incriminating but doesn't want Hawke involved. Trust works both ways.

Templars don't need to die, but there are Templars who need to be put down. And I don't necessarily mean kill by putting down. Relived of duty at the very least, locked up etc... Templars recruit too easily, rapists, insane people, pedophiles, all join easily. Afterall the ONLY requirement for becoming a a Templar is wanting to become one.

 

 

I think whether he was 100% friend, or no is irrelevant. I understand that's how the game works, but I'm talking from a logical POV. If someone is trying to convince you to assist them with something, who the hell would just say "Okay!"? Doesn't matter if you're asking them for some sugar, or asking them to murder someone... you tell them what you want. And he should have taken into account, if he is saying "I don't want you connected to this", or whatever... then why is he asking you? And how does he think you will feel after you do the deed? Very selfish IMO.

 

I'll be the first to tell you, the Templar system is flawed. But seeing some of the things mages did in DA2, I go back and forth on how harsh they should crack down on them. I mean a time or two I actually had to get up and walk away from the game.

 

I think the lyrium takes a lot of the blame for their mental instability as Templars. But that alone is a double edged sword. But I agree that there are bad Templars out there, and some should be relieved of duty, no question.

[Kieran G.]

I think whether he was 100% friend, or no is irrelevant. I understand that's how the game works, but I'm talking from a logical POV. If someone is trying to convince you to assist them with something, who the hell would just say "Okay!"? Doesn't matter if you're asking them for some sugar, or asking them to murder someone... you tell them what you want. And he should have taken into account, if he is saying "I don't want you connected to this", or whatever... then why is he asking you? And how does he think you will feel after you do the deed? Very selfish IMO.

 

I'll be the first to tell you, the Templar system is flawed. But seeing some of the things mages did in DA2, I go back and forth on how harsh they should crack down on them. I mean a time or two I actually had to get up and walk away from the game.

 

I think the lyrium takes a lot of the blame for their mental instability as Templars. But that alone is a double edged sword. But I agree that there are bad Templars out there, and some should be relieved of duty, no question.

But what about bad mage's? if you want to relieve them of magic you have to make them tranquil. relieving someone of duty is not so much a moral problem, but making some tranquil is much more sketchy. all im saying is its not fair and so we should treat it with the same moral compass.

[-TC1989-]

But what about bad mage's? if you want to relieve them of magic you have to make them tranquil. relieving someone of duty is not so much a moral problem, but making some tranquil is much more sketchy. all im saying is its not fair and so we should treat it with the same moral compass.

 

Well I was speaking solely on Templars. I may support them over the mages, but I can't deny there are some bad seeds within the order. Now on the other hand, I think turning someone tranquil is a controversial decision, but a decision that sadly needs to be had sometimes. But that's another reason why I'm pro circle. There really is no fine line between the two. Either you stick to the circle, or you are made tranquil. You can't really expel them from the circle, and out right killing them (while it may be argued that it's still better than being made tranquil) would create a even bigger mess. So what are you really forced with? I don't mean to imply that you need to keep pulling the trigger on the tranquil button, but there isn't a lot of options.

 

Going back to the Templar deal.... relieving them of duty, while it may be the less morally conflicting thing, imagine what that would do to them? I don't know a lot of the effects of lyrium withdrawal, but I would assume it's almost mind breaking.

 

There really is no great answer for either end, but it is what it is. You can't have crazy mages turning into abominations, and killing people. And you can't have Templars abusing their power, and steam rolling their authority over innocent mages.

[Star fury]

Good templar is a dead templar. So there will be a lot of good templars in my playthrough.

[DKJaigen]

Sure their are good templars but that doesn't mean im willing to let them join the inquisition. lyrium addiction and very low recruiting standards doesn't make them the most reliable tool in the shed

[Willowhugger]

Here's how I'd handle it.

 

Kill Mages who get possessed willingly.

Free mages who aren't possessed willingly and re-train them.

 

Kill mages who abuse forbidden magic.

NEVER use the Rite of Tranquility.

 

The End

 

In other words, don't treat mages any differently from any of the other evil psychopaths you meet in the game. I killed the bad apostates in Kolgrim's cult and Kolgrim too.

[Chanda]

Cullen's not templar anymore though. He said it himself.

I guess there is good templars somewhere. Or has whole templar organisation gone rebel?

What, he said that? Where? I missed it.

[-TC1989-]

Here's how I'd handle it.

 

Kill Mages who get possessed willingly.

Free mages who aren't possessed willingly and re-train them.

 

Kill mages who abuse forbidden magic.

NEVER use the Rite of Tranquility.

 

The End

 

In other words, don't treat mages any differently from any of the other evil psychopaths you meet in the game. I killed the bad apostates in Kolgrim's cult and Kolgrim too.

 

 

I agree for the most part. Couple little things I want to touch up on though. When you say re-train them, do you mean take them back to the circle? Also, when you say who abuse forbidden magic, do you mean mages that take it too far? Or mages that simply dabble in the forbidden arts to begin with?

[Willowhugger]

What, he said that? Where? I missed it.

 

It's been a couple of places including character profiles. Cullen is disenchanted with the Templar Order after Meredith and jumps ship when there's something better.

 

It was also stated Cullen thinks Mages still need to be controlled but isn't sure the Templars are the ones to do it anymore. They don't have the moral authority or wisdom anymore.

 

Mostly because he recognizes Mages are dangerous but the Templars can be just as bad since Meredith willingly became an abomination. It was like, "holy crap, mages don't do that when backed into a corner. PEOPLE do that."
 

[Panda]

What, he said that? Where? I missed it.

 

I can't find it now but there is article of frostbite engine and how it works in interaction between characters. Cullen had dialogue line there: "That's not my title (angry templar tried to call him Knight-Captain), we aren't templars anymore." (with loathing expression). So based on that and also "whatever we were before, now we are the Inquisition".

[Willowhugger]

I agree for the most part. Couple little things I want to touch up on though. When you say re-train them, do you mean take them back to the circle? Also, when you say who abuse forbidden magic, do you mean mages that take it too far? Or mages that simply dabble in the forbidden arts to begin with?

 

1. I don't have any better solutions to the Circle at best but a Mage-run Circle works as well as Professor X's school. The biggest problem with the Circle and Fenris' fears is the Circles could take over the country like Tevinter but that's less of a problem if you have an organization like the Inquisition which can be as strong as the Circles. The Templars can still exist too, they just wouldn't have blanket authority over all mages. They can serve as backup when the Inquisition is hunting down rogue mages and demons.

 

2. I'm inclined to think Blood Magic can be studied for possible medicinal applications or things like binding demons. It's an ugly-ugly bit of business but we see it gets used and knowing how it works is better than declaring it verbotim off-hand. Still, we saw Hawke's dad managed to bind Corphyeus and also Avernus found a way to conduct his experiments in an ethical manner too.

 

Mind-control and demon-summoning should be verbotim though. I say this as a guy who generally supported Merril's activities.

[Willowhugger]

I can't find it now but there is article of frostbite engine and how it works in interaction between characters. Cullen had dialogue line there: "That's not my title (angry templar tried to call him Knight-Captain), we aren't templars anymore." (with loathing expression). So based on that and also "whatever we were before, now we are the Inquisition".

 

Yeah, I think it's also implied a lot of mages aren't too hot on their side either. The Templar War and Mage War, whatever it is, is implied to have been REALLY destructive.

Maybe not quite Blight levels but up there.

 

That's got to cause some on both sides to wonder whether it's worth it.

[Panda]

Yeah, I think it's also implied a lot of mages aren't too hot on their side either. The Templar War and Mage War, whatever it is, is implied to have been REALLY destructive.

Maybe not quite Blight levels but up there.

 

That's got to cause some on both sides to wonder whether it's worth it.

 

Well the scene also had angry mage in it. So I'm eager to see how that scene plays out in the game

[Willowhugger]

Oh, and I'd also have the Templars regulate their Lyrium use.

 

Don't take that stuff every week.

Take it while training and when you need your powers.

[-TC1989-]

1. I don't have any better solutions to the Circle at best but a Mage-run Circle works as well as Professor X's school. The biggest problem with the Circle and Fenris' fears is the Circles could take over the country like Tevinter but that's less of a problem if you have an organization like the Inquisition which can be as strong as the Circles. The Templars can still exist too, they just wouldn't have blanket authority over all mages. They can serve as backup when the Inquisition is hunting down rogue mages and demons.

 

2. I'm inclined to think Blood Magic can be studied for possible medicinal applications or things like binding demons. It's an ugly-ugly bit of business but we see it gets used and knowing how it works is better than declaring it verbotim off-hand. Still, we saw Hawke's dad managed to bind Corphyeus and also Avernus found a way to conduct his experiments in an ethical manner too.

 

Mind-control and demon-summoning should be verbotim though. I say this as a guy who generally supported Merril's activities.

 

1. So your saying, let the circle be a "Only mages allowed" sort of thing, and Templars would be around the city, or something... and be called upon should the circle go insane. Man... I think the idea sounds much better on paper to be honest. Giving mages all that space and time alone to work on their own experiments.... just sounds very risky. I'm going to have to go 50/50 on that one.

 

2. Giving mages the ability to test, and study blood magic? Man another really risky operation. And wasn't Avernus killing his test subjects? Not on purpose, but he was tossing lives away wasn't he? I think in his journal, he kept saying if only he had "x amount more subjects". Which to progress science/magic in this case, you have to sometimes go to questionable measures... Meh again, 50/50.

 

3. Demon-summoning. Isn't that a big part of blood magic? Or at least a branch of it? How would you effectively be able to know, (assuming point 1 and 2 actually applies in this situation) that both weren't being tested together? And possibly creating another circle crisis like in Origins?

[Chanda]

I can't find it now but there is article of frostbite engine and how it works in interaction between characters. Cullen had dialogue line there: "That's not my title (angry templar tried to call him Knight-Captain), we aren't templars anymore." (with loathing expression). So based on that and also "whatever we were before, now we are the Inquisition".

Wow, I'd love to see that. Thanks!

[Willowhugger]

1. So your saying, let the circle be a "Only mages allowed" sort of thing, and Templars would be around the city, or something... and be called upon should the circle go insane. Man... I think the idea sounds much better on paper to be honest. Giving mages all that space and time alone to work on their own experiments.... just sounds very risky. I'm going to have to go 50/50 on that one.

 

2. Giving mages the ability to test, and study blood magic? Man another really risky operation. And wasn't Avernus killing his test subjects? Not on purpose, but he was tossing lives away wasn't he? I think in his journal, he kept saying if only he had "x amount more subjects". Which to progress science/magic in this case, you have to sometimes go to questionable measures... Meh again, 50/50.

 

3. Demon-summoning. Isn't that a big part of blood magic? Or at least a branch of it? How would you effectively be able to know, (assuming point 1 and 2 actually applies in this situation) that both weren't being tested together? And possibly creating another circle crisis like in Origins?

 

1. I think isolating the Circles is probably a horrible idea in general as it encourages mages to be insular and increases general fear of them plus encourages mages not to be involved in their home nations' affairs. However, I think the Inquisition is a much better solution for being the ones to punish and judge mages because Inquisitors can be both mages as well as regular people so it's more inclined to be "fair." If a Circle needs to be annulled because EVERYONE is a demon then I'd want a mage's opinions on it as well as a Templar's. Plus it'd be nice to have anti-Magic knights to back up the Inquisitors if everything goes to hell.

 

Privately, though, I'd encourage Circles to be open up and mages to travel around Thedas with shops as well as jobs away from it. Treat it more as a college and refuge rather than "your home, forever." I think this would also keep the Circles from being massive nuclear-silos of concentrated superpower if more mages were like Wilhelm and living amongst the common folk.

 

2. Avernus was an evil old goat but he agreed to conduct his experiments ethically without unwilling subjects or kidnapped victims if the Warden ordered him to do so. He made several advances despite this being a slower process.

 

3. Demons teach blood magic, which is a good reason why you shouldn't do it, but while summoning demons is something blood magic can do it's not something it's limited to.

[themageguy]

I would like to see the return of Samson. He was a goodish Templar right? :3

Spoiler

Yeah. I think so

[Elite Midget]

I would say that there are many as the Inquisition is formed by the Divine, Cassandra, and Cullen and the ones that would make up most of its members would be Templars whose loyalty belongs to them.

 

Not to mention that many Templars became unsettled by Meredith's insanity in DA2 and even turn on Meredith despite her having complete authority over them. So don't be surprised if a lot of the Kirkwall Templars ended up a part of the Inquisition as well as they saw first hand the insanity of Anders and Meredith in action. That and their leader, at the end, is Cullen and he ended up going all in for the Inquisition as well.

[MisterJB]

This picture is interesting.

The ones kneeling; and not just kneeling but rather using their sword for emphasys; are obviously Templars but if you pay close attention, those are Circle mages behind them. We know they are Circle mages because they are using the same equipment the Circle mages in the Dwarf Demo were using.

So, what does this mean? Could this possibly be the moment where the Inquisitor supports the Templars against the mages and they swear allegiance to him? Or maybe this is a moment where the Inquisition uses his authority to protect mages and the Templars have no choice but to comply.

[Willowhugger]

I would say that there are many as the Inquisition is formed by the Divine, Cassandra, and Cullen and the ones that would make up most of its members would be Templars whose loyalty belongs to them.

 

Not to mention that many Templars became unsettled by Meredith's insanity in DA2 and even turn on Meredith despite her having complete authority over them. So don't be surprised if a lot of the Kirkwall Templars ended up a part of the Inquisition as well as they saw first hand the insanity of Anders and Meredith in action. That and their leader, at the end, is Cullen and he ended up going all in for the Inquisition as well.

 

I don't think the Inquisition is going to be that large of an organization at the start, actually.

I think the Inquisition will be composed of the "Last Supper Table" and some agents under it with everyone else being armies they take over.

 

You don't start with an army but are THE Inquisitor and people gradually join.