92 réponses à ce sujet

[Pateu]

Hi. Since the thread can't support such a... focused discussion, I'd like to open a new one.

 

Stormcloaks against Imperials.

 

Who is right, who is wrong?

 

Who is the lesser evil?

 

Personally, I support Ulfric. Although he is racist and wants to lead Skyrim with an Iron Fist, I think he has higher odds of keeping Skyrim stable than the Empire.

 

The thing with an independent Skyrim is that they can defend their lands. They are used to the cold and the beasts that roam the land whereas the Thalmor are not. I truly think the Nords could hold Skyrim for a long time against the Thalmor to the point where the elves would be unable to conquer it, since they'd be far from home and their supply lines.

 

Also worth noting that the Thalmor only have bases in skyrim because the Empire allowed them to and protects them due to fear of war starting again ( which the Thalmor want ). Doubt they'd be able to get a foothold in Skyrim without the Empire's protection.

 

On the other hand, an Empire controlled Skyrim would mean Nords sent to fight on foreign lands, where they lose their ability of resisting extremely low temperatures. Although the Empire is clearly stronger than Skyrim, I feel Skyrim has better chances of survival if it defends its own lands instead of committing troops to an Empire that has abandoned its provinces before, when it suited them.

[DrBlingzle]

while I can see why someone might support the stormcloaks I personally support the Imperials. After reading the document about Ulfric in the Thalmor embassy I'm fairly sure they want him to succeed, to spread chaos and make the rest of Tamriel easier to conquer. A united empire would stand a higher chance fighting the Thalmor than as separate nations with bad blood between them. On top of that Skyrim lies inbetween High rock and Cyrodil. If Skyrim separated the empire would be divided as the would be no way for troops and trade to go between high rock and cyrodil (as the other route through hammerfell is no longer an option due to hammerfell defecting).

 

Added to that the banning of worship to Talos would under the rule of the empire would only be temporary so long as the war with the Thalmor is won whereas the repression of races other than Nords under the rule of the stormcloaks would seem to last as long as they are in charge. 

[Pateu]

After reading the document about Ulfric in the Thalmor embassy I'm fairly sure they want him to succeed, to spread chaos and make the rest of Tamriel easier to conquer.

 

No, they want the war to go on. That's why Ulfric is an asset, because he can't decisively win the war. The Thalmor want a civil war Skyrim so they can fight a divided region.

 

The Dragonborn solving the war messes up their plans, because no matter who wins a Skyrim unified under a single banner is stronger than a Skyrim divided by war.

 

 

 

 

A united empire would stand a higher chance fighting the Thalmor than as separate nations with bad blood between them.

 

I disagree. The nords would be sent to defend Cyrodiil ( again ), losing their homeland advantage and leaving Skyrim vulnerable. Skyrim won't fall to the Thalmor if independent. The Thalmor already showed they can't deal with harsh climates when they lost in Hammerfell.

[ME_Fan]

Many nords fighting within the Stormcloaks still actually lament the fact that the situation has ended up in open warfare. Most Stormcloaks still respect the empire, and what it stands for, but not for contemporary imperials. Whilst many of the Stormcloak leadership could be considered racist, that only represents a minority, and the majority have no problem with other races. What they DO have a problem with however, is the erosion of Nordic/Skyrim culture by other races, such as the Worship of Talos, within their own country. There is nothing wrong with that, the Stormcloaks believe that who they are and where they come from is being destroyed by outside influence. If foreigners were entering my country and eroding/destroying its culture (in reality in fact they are, but thats real world, I digress) then I would feel right to take up arms and fight back, to remove them.

 

Rise Stormcloaks!

[Pateu]

I read somewhere that Ulfric, despite saying he will allow the Jarls to decide if they accept him as king, basically gives them no other choice.

 

Also

 

http://www.uesp.net/...ear_of_Markarth

 

i do not want to excuse Ulfric. He's a pretty bad guy.

 

Tullius seems like a nicer fellow, since he is willing to learn more about Nord culture and actually moves to skyrim once the war is won.

 

But I think Skyrim has higher survival odds with Ulfric at the helm.

 

Yes, he treats Dark Elves and Argonians like crap... but let's face it, they're refugees during a war. They're dead weight.

 

It's a horrible thing to not care about them, but if it meant my country has a bigger chance of survival and not getting enslaved by the elves then I'd do that too.

[mybudgee]

Out of my handful of playthroughs, I was apathetic or a Stormcloak in all but 1. Being an Imperial just made me feel... Dirty

[Cknarf]

At first, I sided with the empire, because I considered Whiterun my home.  I would have supported the rebellion, if I didn't feel like Ulfric was just going to be a worse leader.

I don't choose sides anymore.  I just kill all of them, because the dragonborn don't play that civil war sh*t.

[Sion1138]

The Empire is like any other empire and Ulfric is off his chops.

 

It's a surprisingly authentic kind of conflict.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Disable Immunity on the leaders and smack them in the face with Mjolnir.

That's what I did.

[Sir DeLoria]

I execute every pathetic little rebell and heathen Thalmor I see, for the glory of the Empire!

When given the choice between an ethnically diverse, disciplined, roman inspired army with sexy armors and a bunch of filthy, racist rebels with no style whatsoever, the choice is obvious.

[Pateu]

I execute every pathetic little rebell and heathen Thalmor I see, for the glory of the Empire!

When given the choice between an ethnically diverse, disciplined, roman inspired army with sexy armors and a bunch of filthy, racist rebels with no style whatsoever, the choice is obvious.

 

The rebels aren't racist. They don't hate elves. They hate refugees, which happen to be elves and argonians.

 

For good reason. If i was at war and I had to feed thousands of hobos I wouldn't be happy with it either.

 

Also the Empire isn't that diverse anymore. They only have Skyrim and High Rock in addition to Cyrodiil.

 

If I were the Dragonborn I'd support Ulfric then challenge him to a duel for the Crown and kill him with the Thu'um. 

 

Ulfric is a bad ruler. The only reason I support him is that I see the Empire as even worse and I truly believe an independent Skyrim has higher odds to survive fighting on their own territory with the weather on their side than in some Cyrodiil battlefield because the Empire needed their men.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

ULFRIC 4E 201

 

 

[AventuroLegendary]

I'm all for the revival of the Empire. 

 

The Altmer scum will kiss the boots of the new Emperor, one way or another.

[the_last_krogan]

Imperials

 

ulfrics just a puppet

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I always support Ulfric in game. The Empire is weak and Skyrim needs a strong leader, not a puppet. In fact, If it were up to me I'd have the Dragonborn take Ulfric's place and try to start a new empire, one that would kick those snobby mer back to their island.

[Sir DeLoria]

The rebels aren't racist. They don't hate elves. They hate refugees, which happen to be elves and argonians.

I doubt that, a lot of dialogue suggests that the rebells and many of their supporters are quite racist and xenophobic.

"Skyrim belongs to the Nords!" etc etc

For good reason. If i was at war and I had to feed thousands of hobos I wouldn't be happy with it either.

These aren't hobos though, many of them are skilled craftsmen, traders and soldiers who are more than willing to work for a living (especially the Argonians) but Ulfric and his supporters don't let them because of their race, really that's the only reason.

Also the Empire isn't that diverse anymore. They only have Skyrim and High Rock in addition to Cyrodiil.

I'm talking about the Legion itself here though, its ranks are filled with imperials, nords, redguards, high elves, orcs and bretons alike.

[Pateu]

"Skyrim belongs to the Nords!"

 

That's like me saying Romania belongs to Romanians.

 

What they mean by that is that Skyrim should be Nord controlled, not Empire controlled, an Empire that is clearly too weak to protect itself and if so how are they going to protect Skyrim?

 

These aren't hobos though, many of them are skilled craftsmen, traders and soldiers who are more than willing to work for a living (especially the Argonians) but Ulfric and his supporters don't let them because of their race, really that's the only reason.

 

They're refugees. I don't recall seeing any of worth.

 

Ulfric accepts the Player in his army regardless of race. He respects power.

[Pateu]

I always support Ulfric in game. The Empire is weak and Skyrim needs a strong leader, not a puppet. In fact, If it were up to me I'd have the Dragonborn take Ulfric's place and try to start a new empire, one that would kick those snobby mer back to their island.

 

What my Dragonborn would do is support Ulfric because he can't get out of the next thing: challenge Ulfric for the crown and then rule Skyrim.

 

With dragons, the Thu'um and the Dragonborn's own skill, I doubt the thalmor could take Skyrim.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I'm sure a few of them are racist, but the majority of Stormcloaks seem more like fervent nationalist. When do they ever claim that they are superior to elves and the beast races? Their group never claims superiority over the other races as far as I'm aware. But then again, I don't equate with wanting to preserve your culture and homeland from foreigners as racist.

 

If any race in Tamriel is racist it's certainly the elves. Ayleids enslaved humans until Alessia's revolt. Dark Elves enslaved the beast races and probably still do. Humans weren't even allowed to set foot in the Summerset Isles during the Third Empire.

[Pateu]

The Dominion starts exterminating humans/Blades just because they deem the humans unfit to rule.

 

That's racism and with the White Gold Concordat the Empire is okay with it. Not some silly Gray Quarter thing.

[Khayness]

Side with the Imperials then do the Dark Brotherhood quests for maximum lulz.

 

Shaking up the Status Quo is cool, kudos for them, but I couldn't ever immerse myself role playing wise into any TES games, so I couldn't give a damn.

[Gravisanimi]

I support the Stormcloak cause, but disagree with the Command, and vice versa with the Empire, a war is just not what they needed at that time, but Skyrim deserves it's chance to become independent.

[AventuroLegendary]

The Dominion starts exterminating humans/Blades just because they deem the humans unfit to rule.

 

That's racism and with the White Gold Concordat the Empire is okay with it. Not some silly Gray Quarter thing.

 

Except the Empire isn't okay with it, just like a hostage isn't okay with a gunman's demands.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I support the Aldmeri Dominion. 

Of course, I must point out that a majority of Skyrim wants to stay in the Empire, as 5 out of 9 holds either openly support the Empire, or are technically neutral while still opposing Ulfric. Most of the Legion forces in Skyrim are native Nords themselves. 

If the Empire was really set on keeping it no matter what, they could just take an actual legion from the Cyrodiil/Valenwood border and crush the Stormcloaks with ease. 

They make up for not giving up the man power by supplying one of their best generals, but if an actual legion was deployed then it'd be a cakewalk. 

[Pateu]

Except the Empire isn't okay with it, just like a hostage isn't okay with a gunman's demands.

 

The Empire isn't a hostage. They shouldn't have signed the treaty.

 

They were certain Hammerfell would lose, so they gave up on them. Then shocker, Hammerfell pushed the Thalmor back. If the Empire had held, they could have beaten the Thalmor back with the Bretons, Nords and Redguards supporting them. Also the Dark Elf/Argonian refugees in Skyrim would've probably been treated better since Ulfric wouldn't have started the war.

 

 

 

but if an actual legion was deployed then it'd be a cakewalk.

 

The Thalmor would most likely begin the Second war if they moved their troops from the borders.