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A discussion about Skyrim's Civil War and who to pick.

Débuté par Pateu , sept. 01 2014 08:38

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#76
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Posté 03 septembre 2014 - 04:39

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That's a problem with the lore then.

 

Oh, and how do they have to destroy Cyrodiil first? The Thalmor are everywhere in Skyrim. Assembling an army in secret is hardly impossible.

 

Again, transportation, magic hax lolz for the winz.

 

And how do the Thalmor wage a war of attrition against Skyrim when they don't have any friendly settlement near it?

 

Set supply lines.

 

Skyrim under Stormcloak rule have no friends. Hammerfell is too busy with their own stuff to go "oh let's join up with them!" And the Empire need to cut their losses. They can't afford to take it back.

 

Oh, and that stalemate was won by the edge of a knife. Hardly what I'd call a complete defeat for the Thalmor and a total victory for the Empire. It's a ceasefire now, sure, but that's because the Thalmor are waiting it out a bit and the Imperials NEED a breather.


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#77
Pateu
Posté 03 septembre 2014 - 06:18

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Oh, and how do they have to destroy Cyrodiil first? The Thalmor are everywhere in Skyrim. Assembling an army in secret is hardly impossible.

 

Everywhere? How many of them could there be? They'd get ALL killed the second Ulfric wins the war.

Again, transportation, magic hax lolz for the winz.

 

And again I question the validity of such magic and ask why they didn't use it to simply take the Imperial City from inside instead of walking all the way there.

 

And the Empire need to cut their losses. They can't afford to take it back.

 

The Thalmor would still have to march through Cyrodiil to enter Skyrim. Not happening without major losses.

 

Oh, and that stalemate was won by the edge of a knife.

 

They got annihilated and their commander hung from the Imperial tower.

They might have armies home but the Cyrodiil Altmeri got wrecked.
 


#78
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Posté 03 septembre 2014 - 08:25

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1. True enough, but don't forget that the Thalmor are also rooting for Ulfric's war. The moment they see him winning they'll probably pull back and set the stage for their attack.

 

2. It's perfectly valid, but Bethesda's writers just don't use it when they can. Unless there's a counter magic to that of course, never heard of it though. Marching to Skyrim isn't impossible though, and no, they wouldn't get smashed by Cyrodiil. Cyrodiil have no business in Skyrim anymore and can't afford to break the treaty again.

 

3. Sure. But all before that it was the Aldmeri Dominion kicking ass and chewing gum. Cyrodiil won back Cyrodiil, not Tamriel. The Aldmeri Dominion currently occupies most of the south whilst the other Provinces are still struggling aside from Black Marsh. And forget Morrowind, that place is screeewwweed. Cyrodiil won a battle, a victory needed by the edge of defeat.

 

That does not mean they are fully capable of fighting back immediately and alone.

 

The more Provinces back out the worse it'll be in the long run. Hammerfell did well on its own because they're the realist niggas on Nirn and can kick ass all the time (apparently) but the Aldmeri Dominion continues.

 

In fact, I'd put my money more on Hammerfell than Skyrim. Skyrim is really screwed either way, just less screwed under Imperial government. That long ass post already explained why a Stormcloak Skyrim would fall flat on its ass.

 

P.S C'mon! When you have the bloody THALMOR rooting for the Stormcloaks it's BETHESDA telling you 'yo, this ain't good.' Yeah, under Dovahkiin they stand a preeety good chance at surviving. But everything I've said up to now is a Stormcloak land with no FUS ROH DAH in sight.

 

He's gone to Elsywere in the promise to find beaches and furies with loots of skooma.


#79
Pateu
Posté 03 septembre 2014 - 09:41

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1. True enough, but don't forget that the Thalmor are also rooting for Ulfric's war. The moment they see him winning they'll probably pull back and set the stage for their attack.

 

They aren't rooting for the Stormcloaks.

 

They're rooting for a continued civil war. If the war keeps going both factions will be weakened.

 

2. It's perfectly valid, but Bethesda's writers just don't use it when they can.

 

I sure as hell haven't heard of it and it seems dumb every mage ever wouldn't use it all the time.

 

Cyrodiil have no business in Skyrim anymore and can't afford to break the treaty again.

 

Cyrodiil isn't going to let a whole Dominion army march through their land. If they intend to conquer Skyrim, they need a big army and the Empire won't let them just walk through their land with it.


#80
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Posté 03 septembre 2014 - 10:10

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1. Exactly my point. And to do that, they support the Stormcloaks until their purpose is fufilled.

 

2. Yep. If Bethesda were better at writing up their lore we wouldn't have been having a discussion now since everybody would teleport everywhere. Suppose it's costly to teleport. But whatevs, I'll not use that anymore.

 

3. Maybe. This all depends on the current hierarchy. But, let's choose the more rational option which is yes they will. Cyrodiil simply can't afford to stop a full-scale invasion of a province they no longer have jurisdiction of. ESPECIALLY with the knowledge that Ulfric is behind that province, meaning whatever they do to save their asses Ulfric will never say "let's be friends now." They'd challenge it of course, take it up with x Lord and y Noble, bring in Lawyers and the rest, but in the end, the case would be settled because the Thalmor are superior.

 

The Thalmor have been walking all over the Imperials. I mean, c'mon! They attend diplomatic meetings that involve the political balance of a province for pete's sake! They were at he execution of Ulfirc and they have patrols all over the damned place.

 

Right now, the Imperial strategy is 'regroup and attack' so that's why they're letting all this crap happen.

 

This is what I meant by this war can't be won with swords as of yet. The Imperials need to make political maneuvers in order to get themselves set up straight to tackle the Thalmor. Build alliances with the Argonians to secure your eastern flank, make compromises and open refugees into Cyrodiil then build your economy by offering jobs in the Legion to the Dunmer; create cheap labour from those same refugees by expanding agriculture; install loyal retainers where they'll be useful, preferably where these plantations will be. Soften your relationship with Hammerfell, the Redgaurds are a province that might never come back the Empire, but you DON'T want them as enemies.

 

Open war is not an option now, it's something you'd want to avoid until the right time where you can go full out and wage war on the South. Because this second war will be HUGE.


#81
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Posté 03 septembre 2014 - 10:38

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Read your OP again.

 

We both have very different goals in mind when we're discussing it xD


#82
Seraphim24
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 12:32

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The Empire tried to kill me, and nearly succeeded, that's all the reason I need to side with the Whitecloaks every single time.


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#83
Pateu
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 12:35

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And to do that, they support the Stormcloaks until their purpose is fufilled.

 

Except they kill Stormcloaks and any other Talos worshippers.

 

3. Maybe. This all depends on the current hierarchy. But, let's choose the more rational option which is yes they will. Cyrodiil simply can't afford to stop a full-scale invasion of a province they no longer have jurisdiction of.

 

That's not the point.

 

They'd never allow a Thalmor army inside their country. They'd see it as an act of war.

 

What, you think Russia would let 1.000.000 Chinese soldiers inside Moskow just because the Chinese say they want to invade Scandinavia? 

 

The Thalmor have been walking all over the Imperials. I mean, c'mon! They attend diplomatic meetings that involve the political balance of a province for pete's sake! They were at he execution of Ulfirc and they have patrols all over the damned place.

 

The Imperials are trying to maintain the ruse of the accord.

 

We both know they're preparing for another war, though.


#84
TheOneTrueBioticGod
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 12:53

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And without Skyrim backing them up, the Empire WILL lose without them, and because Skyrim is the only way High Rock connects to the Empire, High Rock can't help out either. 

So it's the Summerset Isles, Valenwood, and Elsweyr versus Cyrodiil. 

When the Imperial City falls again, there is absolutely nothing stopping Elven supremacy returning to the continent once again. 

Not that I oppose that. 


#85
Orian Tabris
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 01:19

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My thoughts? Go with whichever best suits your character's personality/mentality.


#86
Pateu
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 01:38

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And without Skyrim backing them up, the Empire WILL lose without them, and because Skyrim is the only way High Rock connects to the Empire, High Rock can't help out either. 

So it's the Summerset Isles, Valenwood, and Elsweyr versus Cyrodiil. 

When the Imperial City falls again, there is absolutely nothing stopping Elven supremacy returning to the continent once again. 

Not that I oppose that. 

 

They'll still take a lot of losses and it's not like elves can multiply their numbers.

Meanwhile the Dark Elves and Argonians in Skyrim could be convinced ( forceful if needed ) to fight against the Thalmor.


#87
ME_Fan
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 09:52

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I don't know if it's sad or amazing that a fictional conflict in a videogame game can create such passionate debate.
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#88
Dermain
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 10:13

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I sure as hell haven't heard of it and it seems dumb every mage ever wouldn't use it all the time.

 

Because Bethesda's lore is pretty much the Star Wars lore pre-Disney buyout. Things get re-written/changed with every iteration at this point.

 

The fans probably know the lore better than them.

I don't know if it's sad or amazing that a fictional conflict in a videogame game can create such passionate debate.

 

As with other such debates, I wouldn't be surprised if there are political undertones to the debate.


#89
spinachdiaper
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 10:34

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The Empire started in Skyrim so it only makes sense that it's end would be in Skyrim and that would also be the launching point for the next Empire to develop from the Stormcloaks.

 

I always play as a Nord, Dwarve, Barbarian or Viking so it is a always given no decision needed that I join the Stormcloaks.

 

I think the Thalmor don't stand a chance in the long term since the Daedric princes and Nine divines would rather team up then let the Mur muck up all of Nirn.


#90
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Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 04:53

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1. It's hardly scheming if you're out on the open going "yay! Let's cause CHAOS!" There's subtlety and farces involved. This requires open hostility.

 

2. Russia aren't depleted of most their military strength. You know the entire 8th Legion had to be sacrificed just to win that ceasefire, no? It's not about wanting, it's about choice, and the Empire haven't got any because any reinforcements would need to come from Highrock, the other provinces don't support them. The old Empire really only resides in Cyrodiil. Skyrim is on the verge of collapsing anyway, even if the Stormcloaks DON'T win, the Imperials will probably have to abandon the province in the end.

 

3. And the ruse involves letting them walk all over you. This is really just proving the point that the Empire have the crappy end of the stick here.

 

My whole argument involves what would be beneficial to the Empire as a whole. I already think that even if the Stormcloaks win, they'd be screwed for everything else for years. With no political support and inner turmoil in due to the inevitable fallout, all that really is required is blitzkrieg tactics. I'd say even after a YEAR the situation would still not be settled in Skyrim after Stormcloak victory.

 

That's the trouble with Civil War, you defeat your enemies, execute them and grudges appear. A civil war is the mother of a million curses and is the best fuel for yet another civil war.


#91
mybudgee
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 06:55

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I always play as a Nord, Dwarve, Barbarian or Viking so it is a always given no decision needed that I join the Stormcloaks.

 

 

Elaborate pls


#92
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Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 10:54

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Elaborate pls

 

It's obviously Dwarvelven


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#93
Elhanan
Posté 04 septembre 2014 - 11:16

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Have only chosen the Stormcloaks a single time, then utilized an Elder Scroll to travel back in time to change my mind, and support the Empire. Ain't head canon and a little imagination grand!
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