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[Eternal Phoenix]

If this sh*t has reached Poland, we're all doomed. God help CD Projekt.

 

27:25

 

"We have females as well.."

 

 

I think they said that because they've been reading western bullshit "games journalism" and are scared of how places like Eurogamer, VG247 and Kotuka are going to react with their increasing agenda where they're creating articles about perceived sexism in gaming every few days (literally). Their "Sins" trailer shows the lead character in a foursome with some women though so I don't think we'll be seeing any politically correct crap from this game thankfully.

 

 

Also from the front page video from YouTube...

 

Spoiler

 

Okay, that made me laugh. Spot on about how game journalism has become too. That comment is exactly the type of "journalism" I'm reading on Eurogamer nowadays.

[Katiefrost]

I'll speak from the stand point of having played DA1 and 2. I chose the heterosexual options for my characters. In DA1, I played a female warden who made a rather traditional choice to marry the handsome prince and try and grab a little happily ever after. I realize the game offers other options but I wasn't compelled to choose them so they didn't bother me. I played the game I wanted to play. I don't have a problem with other gamers choosing plot lines that I wouldn't like. I do have a problem with people who can't simply play the game and enjoy it. If someone wants to play the game differently than these anti-PC folks do, they have problems with that. They also have other problems. They tend to be haters. And that, is a bigger problem than Bioware can address. They should seek help elsewhere.

[Afro_Explosion]

Political correctness is only a problem for those that always been included.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Those nonsensical romances compromised the integrity of the setting. That Tali could end up being rawdogged by another species with zero consequences (thanks to handwavium "herbal supplements) and femshep can withstand being clawhammered by Garrus is a joke. It's BW catering to the base whims of the fanbase (ala playersexual 'mances in DA2).

 

There may and may not have been. That they didn't talk made them irrelevent regardless.

 

No but they catered to the vocal paragon fanbase at the expense of the (admittedly fewer in number) Cerberus supporters. The whole "Citadel coup" mission for instance,serves zero narrative purpose(nothing changes even in a game where Leng kills the Salarian councilor) and is just there for the kiddies to pew pew at Cerberus and kill Udina.

 

Does it say anywhere that interspecies coitus is impossible? If not then Tali would probably get pretty sick afterwards and that's it. Something similar and simple with Garrus. There's a club on Illium in ME2 where a quarian is discussing her loser human ex boyfriend with a turian that's posing as her friend while eagerly trying to jump her bones. Was this done with lore in mind or for the fans? If this violates lore then let me know because I believe lore to be paramount when crafting a game/story/anything and having volus in ME3 multiplayer bothered me. Actually many mp characters broke lore and i'd have done the whole thing a lot differently.

 

Yet you mentioned meeting 2 matriarchs who happened to be related to Liara as a bad thing. There may have been others. You don't know what they are until they tell you. They don't age like humans. You can't see their years in their skin or their hair like with us. Wasea could have been a matriarch. The asari that Thane killed as well and possibly many others. Maybe even the asari councilor or Aria T'Loak. Unless they tell you you have to guess.

 

Many things could be said to not have narrative purpose but I don't believe this is one of them. They were unwitting Reaper puppets and as such were securing the Citadel for their masters. 

[someguy1231]

I think Bioware went too "PC" in DA2 when they made all romanceable companions playersexual. I repeatedly stated my reasons for my opposition to it: I believe characters should exist as their own independent entities rather than satellites that revolve around the player, which I believe playersexual characters fell under. I considered this extremely contrived immersion-breaking and it reminded me that I was in a programmed, artificial environment. Problem is, too many people who supported that system reflexively viewed anyone who opposed it as a homophobe. I remember when it was announced that DAI thankfully would not have these, I declared that I would bathe in the tears of those upset by this decision. Hehe...

 

As for other cases of getting too PC, I don't like it when Bioware thinks that "strong female character" means "make a female character look and act like a man as much as possible". Aveline in DA2 and Cassandra in DAI are examples of this to me.

[Treacherous J Slither]

It's not a new phenomenon, perharps in western video games. Shippers are a blight on mankind strange. Cartoon/webcomic fandoms can be savage. Just look at the Legend of Korra thread here, half of it is fanfic material.

 

There's a Legend Of Korra thread?!!! *runs off tothe Legend Of Korra thread*

[Steelcan]

Does it say anywhere that interspecies coitus is impossible? If not then Tali would probably get pretty sick afterwards and that's it. Something similar and simple with Garrus. There's a club on Illium in ME2 where a quarian is discussing her loser human ex boyfriend with a turian that's posing as her friend while eagerly trying to jump her bones. Was this done with lore in mind or for the fans?

Quarians respond to any foreign biological material with anything from a moderate cold to death

[Khayness]

There's a club on Illium in ME2 where a quarian is discussing her loser human ex boyfriend with a turian that's posing as her friend while eagerly trying to jump her bones. Was this done with lore in mind or for the fans?

 

That's a jab at the fanbase, just like Conrad in ME3 talking about things not making sense (like thermal clips). More likely funny shout outs to the fandom than lore codifying.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I think Bioware went too "PC" in DA2 when they made all romanceable companions playersexual. I repeatedly stated my reasons for my opposition to it: I believe characters should exist as their own independent entities rather than satellites that revolve around the player, which I believe playersexual characters fell under. I considered this extremely contrived immersion-breaking and it reminded me that I was in a programmed, artificial environment. Problem is, too many people who supported that system reflexively viewed anyone who opposed it as a homophobe. I remember when it was announced that DAI thankfully would not have these, I declared that I would bathe in the tears of those upset by this decision. Hehe...

 

As for other cases of getting too PC, I don't like it when Bioware thinks that "strong female character" means "make a female character look and act like a man as much as possible". Aveline in DA2 and Cassandra in DAI are examples of this to me.

 

I understand what you are saying and I agree to an extent but...I didn't like that my Warden couldn't have quickie no strings sex with Morrigan after a hard of killing if they were a she and not a he. Whatever. To the Pearl!

 

Isabella is also a strong female character isn't she? She's pretty feminine too.

[Steelcan]

Isabella is also a strong female character isn't she? She's pretty feminine too.

if by "strong" you mean a walking STD bastion who is selfish and non-committal

[Treacherous J Slither]

Quarians respond to any foreign biological material with anything from a moderate cold to death

 

Sounds pretty risky. But hey, when you love someone ...am I right?

[someguy1231]

I understand what you are saying and I agree to an extent but...I didn't like that my Warden couldn't have quickie no strings sex with Morrigan after a hard of killing if they were a she and not a he. Whatever. To the Pearl!

 

Isabella is also a strong female character isn't she? She's pretty feminine too.

 

And that's exactly how it should be. It reminds the player that they aren't omnipotent and that the world doesn't revolve around them.

 

As for Isabela, I never thought much of her. If she's supposed to be "strong" just because of how open she is, well, I never saw it.

[someguy1231]

It's not a new phenomenon, perharps in western video games. Shippers are a blight on mankind strange. Cartoon/webcomic fandoms can be savage. Just look at the Legend of Korra thread here, half of it is fanfic material.

 

Oh god, don't get me started on "Shippers". The most irrational fans to be found in any fandom. Canon sexualities, interactions, even common sense mean nothing to them as long as they can get their two favorite characters together. Even the ones that restrict themselves to canon couples I generally find annoying. That's a big reason I've always hated the romances in Bioware games - it's pretty much impossible for me to separate them from their loony fans. They're also the reason Bioware threw lore and consistency in the trash to make all those interspecies romances possible in ME2.

[Treacherous J Slither]

if by "strong" you mean a walking STD bastion who is selfish and non-committal

 

Whoa lol are you bashing her promiscuity? Because the same can be said of many characters in the game. My Hawke has gone to the Blooming Rose many a time. She has a room reserved ffs. The place is practically her second home. Sex comes with many possible consequences. Especially if there are no such things as condoms. But that ain't stopping anybody is it?

 

As for her being selfish well...not every companion you meet should think that the world begins and ends with you.

 

Non committal? Commit to what?

[slimgrin]

Political correctness is only a problem for those that always been included.

Included in what? 

[Steelcan]

Whoa lol are you bashing her promiscuity? Because the same can be said of many characters in the game. My Hawke has gone to the Blooming Rose many a time. She has a room reserved ffs. The place is practically her second home. Sex comes with many possible consequences. Especially if there are no such things as condoms. But that ain't stopping anybody is it?

 

As for her being selfish well...not every companion you meet should think that the world begins and ends with you.

 

Non committal? Commit to what?

The fact that Isabela has to go to mages to get healed is not a glowing recommendation

 

Not being devoted to Hawke is different from "willing to let the qunari burn down a whole city so you don't get in trouble"

 

The only thing she is committed to is herself, she's got no consistent moral code, relationships with people (even her romance with Hawke is plagued with issues like that"

[Terca]

This thread... Lol. Is Tumblr really pouring over into the rest of the net now?

[Treacherous J Slither]

And that's exactly how it should be. It reminds the player that they aren't omnipotent and that the world doesn't revolve around them.

 

As for Isabela, I never thought much of her. If she's supposed to be "strong" just because of how open she is, well, I never saw it.

 

The world does kinda revolve around the player though. Maybe not the character, but the player him/herself. The game is about player enjoyment after all and if I as a player want my Warden to sit on Morrigan face during the cold and lonely night then i'm not gonna complain when given the option. What exactly is lost by having more choices anyway?

 

"Oh no! There's a heart icon next to one particular line of dialogue out of 6 possible lines of dialogue!" *rage*

[Steelcan]

This thread... Lol. Is Tumblr really pouring over into the rest of the net now?

I think that its a function of the nature of the crowd that BioWare has been attracting for a while now, but then go to Imgur, r/tumblrinaction, or the lovely as always 4Chan and you see more of tumblr leaking out

[Treacherous J Slither]

The fact that Isabela has to go to mages to get healed is not a glowing recommendation

 

Not being devoted to Hawke is different from "willing to let the qunari burn down a whole city so you don't get in trouble"

 

The only thing she is committed to is herself, she's got no consistent moral code, relationships with people (even her romance with Hawke is plagued with issues like that"

 

The seneschal also went to Anders for healing. Lot's of people went to Anders for healing. He did a good job and didn't charge you a copper. I'm surprised there wasn't a line throughout the city for his services. What are the medical alternatives anyway? Leeches? Prayer? Pass.

 

If you don't like her character because you believe her to be immoral I understand. Doesn't make her a weak character though.

Modifié par JSlither, 02 septembre 2014 - 03:40 .

[Jorji Costava]

The only thing she is committed to is herself, she's got no consistent moral code, relationships with people (even her romance with Hawke is plagued with issues like that"

 

Assuming this characterization is entirely accurate, I'd still argue that it has nothing to do with the question that's actually interesting, which is whether or not Isabela is a well-written female character. It's a mistake to assume that whether or not a character is well-written is a function of whether or not she has qualities that we admire in people we actually meet. Otherwise, Wesley Crusher would be an awesome character while Jayne Cobb would be a pretty terrible one.

 

Plus, there's a very good argument to be made that what matters when writing characters, and especially women, is not that they be "strong" but that they have agency: That is, their actions help shape the story, and their stories are something we invest in for their own sake and not just for the sake of how they affect the male characters. Whatever else you might say about Isabela, she does exercise a fair amount of her own agency in the story, which is more than can be said for a lot of Bioware's LI's.

[Steelcan]

I suppose being a cowardly narcissist who influences the plot is better than a wall decoration no matter the personality

[someguy1231]

The world does kinda revolve around the player though. Maybe not the character, but the player him/herself. The game is about player enjoyment after all and if I as a player want my Warden to sit on Morrigan face during the cold and lonely night then i'm not gonna complain when given the option. What exactly is lost by having more choices anyway?

 

"Oh no! There's a heart icon next to one particular line of dialogue out of 6 possible lines of dialogue!" *rage*

 

The integrity of the setting, the consistency of lore, the depth of characters, to name only a few potential loses. Believe it or not, some people who play RPGs expect to feel like they're part of the game's world, not that the world revolves around them. That's the problem I always have with people who defend things like this with "B-but but more choices!". More choices don't automatically make a game better. Being able to ride around on a dragon makes alot more sense in a game like Skyrim than a game like, let's say, The Last of Us. I'm sure many players would enjoy being able to do that in TLoU, but that does that mean it should be implemented?

[Treacherous J Slither]

The integrity of the setting, the consistency of lore, the depth of characters, to name only a few potential loses. Believe it or not, some people who play RPGs expect to feel like they're part of the game's world, not that the world revolves around them. That's the problem I always have with people who defend things like this with "B-but but more choices!". More choices don't automatically make a game better. Being able to ride around on a dragon makes alot more sense in a game like Skyrim than a game like, let's say, The Last of Us. I'm sure many players would enjoy being able to do that in TLoU, but that does that mean it should be implemented?

 

You are right.

 

Many things can be lost by having choices that ruin the game in various possible ways. Playersexual characters are not it IMO. I don't mind them at all because I can ignore them completely while another player who is interested in it can romance their face off.