125 réponses à ce sujet

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Hey guys, NPC's have feelings too Be nice! 

 

I.. come on!

 

Making light of fictional characters is one of the least offensive things people can do.

 

It'd be like stating a dislike for the color green or hating on reused sets...

[Treacherous J Slither]

That's why a man has to wrap it up and keep a look out for these hoes.

 

Good advice. Not something the Warden, or Hawke, or the Inquisitor can do though huh? Guess they have to take their chances.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I follow my tastes. If BioWare cater to those taste, they get my money. If they don't, then they don't. I don't see them as being too politically correct or whatever, they simply pander to the fanbase in an attempt to maximise sales and loyalty. Most companies ought to be doing that, it just so happens BioWare's fanbase is very charged politically.

 

I will say though that the notion of a company whose entire ethos revolves around serious, quality and straight laced storytelling running around making Bond Girl type content; and taking pride in it because it satisfies the perverts in their fanbase, without a hint of self awareness is funny. I mean, you see similar things in many other games, but not near the level BioWare does it with their romances. It's not really offensive like Witcher 1's sex cards, but it's ultimately coming from the same place. Yet BioWare is praised for it. IDK.

 

Now, I must stress that is an issue wholly different from LGBT representation, though so so many people see it as one thing.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Taking their actions alone, no not really. But looking at some of the developers personal views on issues and how they've acted in the past, I'd say that there's a certain level of bias when it comes to certain issues. Perhaps with some posters who have expressed disagreeable views getting banned more arbitrarily then those who post what many might consider extreme views and get what seems to be a free pass for being of a ideological persuasion.

 

Certainly there's a lot of that you see in dragon age. Hard issues they could really tackle such as nationalism, homophobia, racial and cultural differences, even a lot of room for ideological discussion, such as the rights of the few vs the needs of the many, things that other fantasy settings have tackled and have yet to tackle, are ignored or hand waved for what really feels like players feelings over anything in the setting. Humans never seem racist to other humans, nobodys bothered by same sex relationships, and the closet thing you ever get to an ideological fued is mages vs templars only, everything else just never seems brought up. It feels like a lot of story potential, good and honest story potential to make a real feeling setting with hard issues presented to the player, is never fully utilized.

 

Whether this is because of the PC fandom playerbase or not is unknown, but it certainly easy to see their hand in the gears when stuff like romance content gets so much attention it requries its own press release and board to talk about.

 

But as far as them going too far in their products, which is really all I truly care about when it comes to this, so far they haven't crossed any sort of line yet. Outside of romance content the players been given a surprising amount of freedom to still be evil, in any and all forms they think applies, so good on em.

 

Gotta say though, the paragon-rewarding, renegade-gating of mass effect got pretty old pretty fast.

[someguy1231]

So you're equating a line of possible dialogue that you can easily skip with a giant 2 headed yeti that follows your PC around everywhere?

 

Not even remotely the same thing and you know it. I think that you find gay and lesbian stuff to be icky and gross and you don't want to see it in your games. I'm not mad at you. To each his/her own. Personally seeing that kind of stuff in relation to certain genders doesn't fill me with joy or anything near it but I understand that i'm not the only one playing the game and I wouldn't want to take away from someone elses enjoyment of the game over something that I could very easily ignore if not miss altogether.

 

A poster earlier in this thread mentioned Steve Cortez in relation to BioWare becoming too PC. I imagine this has to do with Steve being gay or hispanic or both. Gays and hispanics exist here in the real world and many of them play video games and desire representation in those games. I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune if the shoe were on the other foot. But then again I could be wrong and your opinions have nothing to do with this and you are actually really peeved at seeing one little line of dialogue.

 

I have never once spoken against Samantha Traynor or Cortez in ME3, or against characters who are canonically bisexual like Zevran in DAO or Isabela in DA2, or indeed against any non-heterosexual and non-playersexual NPC. The only "tune" I've been singing is my opposition to playersexual NPCs. My comparison had to do with ignoring an aspect of a game in order to maintain immersion. Doesn't matter how large or small it is. I shouldn't have to do that at all. That's why I made the "3-headed yeti" comparison. No matter how large or small, it's a failing of the game, not the player, if they have to ignore an aspect of a game to maintain immersion. Admittedly, maybe the comparison would've been better if the yeti just stayed in one spot instead of following the player everywhere.

 

And now you're making the "player enjoyment" argument again. You already conceded that wasn't an effective argument in an earlier post, quoted here:

 

You are right.

 

Many things can be lost by having choices that ruin the game in various possible ways. Playersexual characters are not it IMO. I don't mind them at all because I can ignore them completely while another player who is interested in it can romance their face off.

 

You admitted that certain choices can ruin a game even if some players would enjoy them. I firmly believe playersexual characters are one of them. But now you're arguing yet again for playersexual characters using that exact same argument. If you don't believe playersexual characters ruin the game, then you'll have to make another argument besides "you can ignore them and some players enjoy them". I've already pointed out that argument could be used to include all sorts of bizarre choices that blatantly go against a game's lore/setting.

[Seraphim24]

BioWare's fanbase is very charged politically.

 

I'd say they're definitely very charged sexually.

[chance52]

Being PC for the sake of being PC is bad.

 

Writing interesting characters that happen to be gay/a minority/disabled/etc is the way to go.  I think some game studios put in one gay character to say they have a gay character and some game studios put thought and effort into writing interesting characters that are gay.

 

A good example of this is Fallout New Vegas' Arcade. That is a character that is always brought up in topics like these because they decided to put effort into the character and have a detailed, interesting and unique background you had to discover along the way.  Being gay was a part of who that character was but it wasn't 'randomly inserted gay character to fill a quota'

 

Then there is DA2 Anders, that is magically gay for no reason, unless Justice turned him gay after Awakening? They wanted a gay character and rather than write one that was gay they took a straight character and turned him gay out of no where. And they took zero effort into providing an explanation for the change or even a reason he might have hid his orientation.  Not that he would have had to, no one in the DA universe seems homophobic so far. Though Dorian's back story might change that. But Anders felt like a quota filler to a lot of people.

 

I would easily play and enjoy 100 games that had a character as well written as Arcade was as the main character regardless of race or sexual orientation but I wouldn't be able to finish a single game with a DA2 style Anders as the lead.

[Blooddrunk1004]

I don't know for Bioware but DA:I sure does.

There's not one interview that goes by without political corectness being brought in. The interview with Inquisitor's voice actress, if was even included there. They kinda dug their own grave, i understand they are trying to listen to fans. But they went way overboard with it.

 

This isn't just with Bioware however, it's happening with almost every media. For example if you say: "fa**ot" in nowadays movie. You will have controversies and GLAAD up your ass. If you would say that word in a 80s-90s movie (most likely action flick) no one would give a damn.

[Ridwan]

Try browsing the Dragon Age sections, nearly every thread is about who they can bang. Gamplay threads are few.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I have never once spoken against Samantha Traynor or Cortez in ME3, or against characters who are canonically bisexual like Zevran in DAO or Isabela in DA2, or indeed against any non-heterosexual and non-playersexual NPC. The only "tune" I've been singing is my opposition to playersexual NPCs. My comparison had to do with ignoring an aspect of a game in order to maintain immersion. Doesn't matter how large or small it is. I shouldn't have to do that at all. That's why I made the "3-headed yeti" comparison. No matter how large or small, it's a failing of the game, not the player, if they have to ignore an aspect of a game to maintain immersion. Admittedly, maybe the comparison would've been better if the yeti just stayed in one spot instead of following the player everywhere.

 

And now you're making the "player enjoyment" argument again. You already conceded that wasn't an effective argument in an earlier post, quoted here:

 

 

You admitted that certain choices can ruin a game even if some players would enjoy them. I firmly believe playersexual characters are one of them. But now you're arguing yet again for playersexual characters using that exact same argument. If you don't believe playersexual characters ruin the game, then you'll have to make another argument besides "you can ignore them and some players enjoy them". I've already pointed out that argument could be used to include all sorts of bizarre choices that blatantly go against a game's lore/setting.

 

I said that playersexual romances don't ruin my immersion and i've stated the reason why. You feel differently and that line of dialogue is like a giant monster that sticks out of place and ruins your immersion. I get it. What I don't get is how the option to flirt is something that breaks the lore or setting. Can you give an example please?

[Cainhurst Crow]

I hope bioware doesn't go the route of a lot of big political correctness sites and individuals and starts bad mouthing gamers as being as bad as the ISIS and start pulling the "all our male audience are horrible and shouls feel bad", or hire Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant for their next game.

If there ever was a company posed to shoot itself in the foot the Same way kotaku is doing, its probably would be bioware.

[TurianRebel212]

EAWare, lol. Who cares what they do. Seriously, their games the last, eh I'd say 4 years or so have been barely above mediocre. 

 

The last great BioWare game was ME2 (2010) And..... All the main people that wrote and made ME2 are..... G.O.N.E. 

[KaiserShep]

I have no respect for sl*ts.

 

I assume that men are included in this, yes?

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I assume that men are included in this, yes?

 Yes, all sexually amoral persons.

[KaiserShep]

I hope bioware doesn't go the route of a lot of big political correctness sites and individuals and starts bad mouthing gamers as being as bad as the ISIS and start pulling the "all our male audience are horrible and shouls feel bad", or hire Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant for their next game.

If there ever was a company posed to shoot itself in the foot the Same way kotaku is doing, its probably would be bioware.

 

BioWare is typically pretty diplomatic about this sort of thing, so I don't really see that happening, at least not for a long time.

 

Kotaku, on the other hand, is a totally different beast. They're just a blog, and part of the Gawker network, which typically gets its hits by drawing readers with inflammatory opinions, and that's been the way they did things for years. The only ones I feel do not really fall into that behavior much at all are io9 and Jalopnik. But anyway, Kotaku has no stake in any particular game publishers or developers, so they can do whatever they want because they make money for just having people click their articles.

[KaiserShep]

 Yes, all sexually amoral persons.

 

Sexually amoral? I just can't express how little I regard this particular concept, since this typically involves consenting adults. I mean, what defines this anyway? Skipping marriage? Not bothering with children? Who gives a frak about that?

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Who gives a frak about that?

 

Me. Now I'm done with this discussion.

[TurianRebel212]

Slvts are awesome. I love slvts. Never date em', but they are awesome to bang. 

[Katiefrost]

I remember the old days when as a female gamer I felt left out and marginalized by the very narrow range of choices and story lines allowed my characters. Now I enjoy the opportunity to make all kinds of female protagonists. I can make them strong and muscular or willowy and alluring depending on my whim. They can be armored, sword heavy tanks or clever and deadly sirens, my call. Chaste or uh, not so chaste.

I can't relate to the Lesbian - gay options available now in the present gaming world. But I never want to return to the way things were.

In protecting the freedoms of others, I protect my own as well. Diversity is healthy. And it's good for gaming.

 

Long Live PC...

[Aurawolf]

I expected there to be a fairly interesting conversation as to if game developers including Bioware were selling out for the sake of PC like so many other aspects of life. Instead this is a discussion literally all over the place.

 

To answer from the way I am understanding the questions, I would have to say no, gamer developers maybe being more open on certain things but that is the way of Sci-fi and fantasy.

[Naughty Bear]

 Yes, all sexually amoral persons.

I don't understand why?

 

I've had...a few experiences but as long as nobody gets hurt, that's good right? Both consenting adults and no-one gets physically or emotionally harmed and just enjoy the sex.

 

But at the same time, it is a turn off. I've kept my number below 7 and hope to keep it that way. I understand if a partner was turned off.

[Cainhurst Crow]

EAWare, lol. Who cares what they do. Seriously, their games the last, eh I'd say 4 years or so have been barely above mediocre. 
 
The last great BioWare game was ME2 (2010) And..... All the main people that wrote and made ME2 are..... G.O.N.E.

Considering we're posting on their forum, Id say there has ti be some level of care involved. Otherwise the very act of posting just seems stupid.

[Killdren88]

I enjoy the Witcher series...does that make me a terrible human being?

[Khayness]

I enjoy the Witcher series...does that make me a terrible human being?

 

Only if you are a heterosexual white male.

[Killdren88]

Only if you are a heterosexual white male.

 

Darn...guess I'm worse than Satan...