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[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Sure, I'd love to see her join Fiona, Briala, Celene, and whoever else pisses me off, on the walls

 

Sweet Andraste yes!

[Angloassassin]

Just *Literally* completed MotA on one of my older Mage Hawke's. And it was the first time around I'd been a real Dick to Tallis when she lied - and I was always irritated that you still wind up helping her, even though she's literally screwed everything up. If I could have killed her on my good-natured, sarcastic Hawke, I would have.

 

He's too old for Qunari BS - especially after Isabella left with the Relic, and jeapordised everything he'd worked so hard for. And he - as a mage (And on Hard/Nightmare) had to fight the Arishok single-handedly... That fight took forever.

[Master Warder Z_]

Also, being able to give a Qunari spy the Ned Stark treatment would be glorious.

 

Isn't that a tad bit extreme?

 

I mean her best friend, her spouse, children, family dogs, unborn grand kids...every one must die who is anyway related to Tallis?

[LobselVith8]

Poor Tallis. She was loved just a little too much, and like a spoiled child, she found acceptance outside her loving family circle was not as easy as it would have been with more realistic expectations.

 

I've learned a lot about Tallis since MotA came out, and what I've learned has softened a vitriolic and intense dislike to merely a reaction against poor execution. Her biggest enemy turned out to be her writers. Felicia Day did not write Tallis, nor did she design her. According to Matt Rhodes, she was there from the initial design stages, perhaps even earlier than Merrill or Anders. As a character concept, she may have predated Redemption rather than the other way around.

 

As a concept, she's pretty cool. We don't get a chance to interact with too many elves who find refuge in the Qun, so that's kinda nifty... but the character development started at the end instead of the beginning. In other words, it made too many assumptions. It assumed that everyone would automatically be in love with her from the word go, so she came in at her end-stage cockiness and just assumed that the player would buy it about a character he or she had never met. Her entrance is similar to Varric's and Isabela where she displays her competence and flair right from the outset. Nothing too out of the ordinary there, all of the characters are shown at their best in their intros... except that Tallis's took it too far. In Varric's the first thing he does after shooting the thief and restoring Hawke's worldly goods is declare "You're the boss!" and he  keeps that up throughout the entirety of their relationship. Isabela goes a bit further with the forced flirting from Hawke (which might be out of character, depending), and for a long time, that rankled and I had a hard time learning to love Isabela (but I eventually did, and very much so). But even then, the fight was her own, and she was the object of the attack. She didn't ride in guns ablazing and save a suddenly inept Hawke from getting his or her backside handed to him or her while Hawke stood around mouth breathing. I'm sorry, but you really have to earn that kind of a cutscene, and Tallis hadn't. Heck, even in Captured!, the one time in DAO when the protagonist was truly helpless, the player has the choice of handling things him or herself or sitting back and waiting for a rescue. And if they're good enough to beat Ser Cauthrien, the whole thing can be avoided. Tallis takes away that player agency, and we're forced to sit there and watch while our characters are turned into simpletons. That doesn't leave a good impression.

 

And it doesn't get better from there. Throughout the entire DLC, no opportunity is overlooked to diminish the skills and abilities of Hawke and his or her followers to make Tallis look good. She's better informed about Kirkwall's underworld than Varric; she's better at both potions and compassion than Anders, the party healer; she knows more about intrigue than Leliana; she's more universally desired than Isabela; she speaks better Tevene than Fenris, and pokes fun at him for his accent when speaking qunlat. The only thing she doesn't do is rip Carver's greatsword off his back and slaughter Baron Arlange's forces singlehandedly (I have to babysit her constantly so she doesn't die constantly as it is). I get it. She's supposed to be badass. But they didn't have to try that hard, nor did they have to make the players' longtime friends and allies look like morons in the process. She could have at least acknowledged their competence, which she never does. Again, you have to earn that kind of a spotlight, and Tallis never did. It was just assumed that the player would love her enough to overlook the deliberate belittlement of Hawke's friends and allies. And that doesn't even begin to touch upon the business with the lock.

 

One of the reasons people love Captured! is the funny banter while the Warden's allies try to free him or her, and yeah, they got that part down. But it's important to note that the Warden (and Alistair) can get out of the cell on their own, and during the course of the rescue, the Warden's companions (who the Warden has grown to know and love throughout the entire game) are allowed to show their competence along the way. In MotA, the banter is there, but both Hawke and his or her companions are once again made to look like idiots for Tallis's benefit. Even though Hawke may well be better at picking locks than Tallis. Once again, that kind of spotlight has to be earned, and the player has known Tallis for about an hour at that point, and it doesn't sit well.

 

But Inquisition isn't DA2, and we don't know in what capacity Tallis will appear, if she appears at all. It's possible that she'll be an adversary, in which case all of her previous detractions become assets. There's a certain satisfaction to beating a skilled opponent, so that might cast Tallis in a better light. Or, if she does wind up being a temporary companion at some point, there's the chance that the writers may have learned that most people don't like being side-kicks in their own story. They don't like it when people make fun of their friends, people who have already established themselves in the protagonist's affection. They may allow her to shine as a gem among many without making her look like a plastic rhinestone with a platinum setting. A sky with only one star isn't much of a vista.

 

So I'd say it wasn't Tallis herself that was the problem, it was the execution.

 

You bring up some really good points. Perhaps if Tallis does make another appearance, the developers will have learned their lesson from the mistakes that were made in MoTA. If she's Tal-Vashoth, that would potentially negate one of the factors that caused ire for some players who roleplay as an anti-Qunari main character.

[BlazingSpeed]

Hopefully the keep will allow players to omit that statement (Tallis...) from the court records...

[NoForgiveness]

You bring up some really good points. Perhaps if Tallis does make another appearance, the developers will have learned their lesson from the mistakes that were made in MoTA. If she's Tal-Vashoth, that would potentially negate one of the factors that caused ire for some players who roleplay as an anti-Qunari main character.

 

people don't have a problem with her being qunari and babbling about it to no end. The Arishok and Sten both do the same exact thing but they have just about no hate, because they can be killed or argued with. The problem was that the player wasn't able to say or do anything against Tallis, except scream at their tv as she casually walks away with Hawkes nose.
 

[Kimarous]

As far as I'm concerned, the only reason she was allowed to walk away was so that Iron Bull and his spy network would not be purged by Hawke revealing the list of Qunari agents. My Hawke was fiercely anti-Qunari after the invasion - even though I had the Arishok's respect, I killed him in an all-out battle because he had lost mine - and I wanted to oppose her to the fullest extent. As a player, I understand the reasoning and tolerate her survival, but from a head-canon standpoint, she grabbed the scroll and ran, barely dodging the thrown murder knife after her. Varric's story version downplayed the sheer hostility of the situation.

 

Just like with the Anders situation. He didn't get a big death monologue. He didn't even get a word out before Hawke tackled him to the ground and repeatedly stabbed him until his companions pulled him back.

 

Head-canon is fun.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If Tallis comes back I want her to be a loyal Qunari still. If she is going to become a Tal'Vashoth I'd prefer us to see the transition. But it's also more interesting seeing a character like her being a rival or an enemy to the PC. At least for a while. It'd be the same if Sten is still alive and a Qunari invasion begins. Maybe both of them could appear together working some scheme to advance the Qun.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

If you like the character, why in God's name would you start a thread about her on the Bioware forum?

That's like boasting about how much you love rap and hip-hop at a white power rally.

 

That's the worst analogy I have ever seen. He's conversing with DA fans about a DA character.

Tallis is an integral part of the DA lore and the OP is interested in her as do the people who agree with him. Not to mention all of which is greatly related to DA and this is a DA thread after all.

If you don't like the character or don't like the idea of a thread dedicated for the character, you could have just ignored the thread. Because your comment is like going to a pop concert and boast about how much you think pop is an unnecessary genre of music.

[TK514]

Poor Tallis. She was loved just a little too much, and like a spoiled child, she found acceptance outside her loving family circle was not as easy as it would have been with more realistic expectations.

*a great post snipped for length.  Seriously, click the little word bubbles up at the top right and read this if you haven't already.*

 

Fantastic.  I don't have the issues many people do with Tallis, but that takes nothing away from my appreciation of your post.  Very well said.

[Ieldra]

I also think the game went out of its way to prevent you from being able to stop Tallis when it should have allowed you to take the names--even if this would have drastic consequences.

This is why I always come out of MotA greatly annoyed. If they didn't want this DLC to have consequences down the line, they could always write them that way in later episodes of this story arc, but preventing you from influencing the outcome here robs you of any feeling of success if you dislike the Qun. Tallis deceiving me was ok, I can deal with that in-world, but in the end I felt as if I was made complicit in aiding my enemy - and trolled for it on top of it. Not cool.

If she comes back I can only hope we'll have more options this time. I'm seriously tempted to kill her as a preventive measure even though my problem isn't exactly with her but with those who designed certain events of MotA - from the entrance to the end.

[PhroXenGold]

If Tallis does make a return, I don't want to end up fighting her in combat, or murderknifing her. I want to do what MotA didn't let me do - argue with her. I want the Inquisitor to be able to rationally argue against Tallis' way of life and beliefs. And I want to make her understand that everything she lives for is a lie. I want to make her understand that everything she believes is a lie. I want her to understand that all the people she has killed and lives she has destroyed is in the service of a lie. And then I want to leave her to live with that understanding.

[Ieldra]

If Tallis does make a return, I don't want to end up fighting her in combat, or murderknifing her. I want to do what MotA didn't let me do - argue with her. I want the Inquisitor to be able to rationally argue against Tallis' way of life and beliefs. And I want to make her understand that everything she lives for is a lie. I want to make her understand that everything she believes is a lie. I want her to understand that all the people she has killed and lives she has destroyed is in the service of a lie. And then I want to leave her to live with that understanding.

I'd like that. Unfortunately, DAI won't be Planescape:Torment. Bioware has never been good at that sort of thing. In fact, for a game manufacturer that generally makes good stories and characters, they've been surprisingly inept at it (or not bothered for some reason). It would be really nice to have an in-depth political/philosophical debate between our Inquisitor and an NPC here and there, but my expectations are very low in that regard.

It doesn't help that I'd want to be able to argue either side. I dislike the Qun, but the option to meaningfully debate in its favor should also exist. What I like about how the Qun was presented is that it doesn't come across as stupid or inconsistent. It's an ideology you could reasonably believe in given a certain collectivist mindset. I wouldn't like to compromise that.

[SgtSteel91]

MotA seemed like you were preventing the slaughter of innocents on the list or related to the people on the list than aiding the Qunari in their spying. Talis seemed to stress that part and her superiors were willing to let the list get out so it seemed like the people on the list weren't that important.

[SmilesJA]

I liked Tallis, she and (sarcastic) Hawke played off each really well in MOTA leading to hilarious lines. I'd wouldn't mind seeing her in Inquisition.

[Augustei]

God I hated Tallis.... I'd only want her to return so I can show her the murder knife.

[TheChosenOne]

I really enjoy Tallis and MOTA. Itwas great for sarcastic mageHawke, but i understand people hate for her. The story was really liner and you basically had no say whatsoever. But I really like her background. She was a good idea but was messed up. Let her be re- written,re-modeled, and I'm good. Felicia Day can stay as her,she's cool 

 

[Elista]

I don't want to see more of her. Never got interested in that character, not even in the webserie. The idea of an elf with such beliefs is good, but... this super-ninja in sexy clothes, hesitating between being a cold assassin or a playful adventurer just doesn't work IMHO.

[Gtdef]

I've been pretty vocal about how much I dislike this character. I think she is badly written and destroyed the dlc. But her premise is interesting. I'd like to see something like her. I'd even tolerate her if they retcon the "superawesomewow" aspects of her character. I'll just pretend that she never unlocked that prison door like it was depicted in the game and I'll be mostly fine.

[Willowhugger]

I just want a clarification.

 

1. Is Tallis' perky elf personality an act?

2. Is it actually Tallis and she's just a horrible Qun follower?

[SnakeCode]

If Tallis does make a return, I don't want to end up fighting her in combat, or murderknifing her. I want to do what MotA didn't let me do - argue with her. I want the Inquisitor to be able to rationally argue against Tallis' way of life and beliefs. And I want to make her understand that everything she lives for is a lie. I want to make her understand that everything she believes is a lie. I want her to understand that all the people she has killed and lives she has destroyed is in the service of a lie. And then I want to leave her to live with that understanding.

Eh, i'm generally not a fan of influencing change upon characters religious beliefs in games. It just doesn't sit well with me. Argue with her? Fine. Disagree with her? Fine. It's the "make her see her whole religion/way of life is a lie" part that I don't like.

 

And i'm an Atheist btw.

[SnakeCode]

I just want a clarification.

 

1. Is Tallis' perky elf personality an act?

2. Is it actually Tallis and she's just a horrible Qun follower?

It's kind of both and neither at the same time.

 

 

It's the result of Tallis being a Mary Sue. She's a part of a group that most of the player base despises, but she's supposed to be instantly likeable. So she ends up being this quirky, happy go lucky character that regularly goes against what her religion stands for. It's almost like she's such a special snowflake that the Qun makes an exception for her.

[Willowhugger]

Eh, i'm generally not a fan of influencing change upon characters religious beliefs in games. It just doesn't sit well with me. Argue with her? Fine. Disagree with her? Fine. It's the "make her see her whole religion/way of life is a lie" part that I don't like.

 

And i'm an Atheist btw.

 

It depends on how we're going to be changing her viewpoint.

Because the Qun is pretty awful,

 

But so is the Chantry.

Even Fereldan's nobility has Vaughn and Howe.

[Willowhugger]

It's kind of both and neither at the same time.

 

It's the result of Tallis being a Mary Sue. She's a part of a group that most of the player base despises, but she's supposed to be instantly likeable. So she ends up being this quirky, happy go lucky character that regularly goes against what her religion stands for. It's almost like she's such a special snowflake that the Qun makes an exception for her.

 

I dunno, she wasn't remotely like this in Redemption so it could be an act she's putting on for Hawke.