155 réponses à ce sujet

[Gtdef]

I just want a clarification.

 

1. Is Tallis' perky elf personality an act?

2. Is it actually Tallis and she's just a horrible Qun follower?

 

I think she is inconsistent. her story is questionable. From how she got reinstated after her transgressions to her views. I don't mind her not wanting to kill mages on sight for example. That's to be expected from a spy. But to me it seems like she has no understanding of the path she follows which makes her concept of "juggling what she is and what she wants to be" weak.

 

She comes of as a generic exaggerated, free spirited and goodhearted person in a predicament. There is no weight to her character.

 

She is a Qunari spy. How much insight you got from her about what a Qunari spy is? Or even what a Qunari is?

[Willowhugger]

I think she is inconsistent. her story is questionable. From how she got reinstated after her transgressions to her views. I don't mind her not wanting to kill mages on sight for example. That's to be expected from a spy. But to me it seems like she has no understanding of the path she follows which makes her concept of "juggling between what she is and what she wants to be" weak.

 

She comes of as a generic exaggerated, free spirited and goodhearted person in a predicament. There is no weight to her character.

 

She is a Qunari spy. How much insight you got from her about what a Qunari spy is? Or even what a Qunari is?

 

To be fair, I'm more forgiving about this because I mentally thought of her as Joyce from the Shorpacked webcomic.

Also, many people I know in RL. There is a STAGGERING number of fundamentalists (I come from the Bible Belt) who have a mental filter about the darker elements of their beliefs.

 

And are exactly the sort of people who'd invite Mage Hawke/a Gay Man to join their Church without realizing the implications.

I don't know if they were going for the idea Tallis just doesn't think about the darker elements of the Qun.

[SnakeCode]

It depends on how we're going to be changing her viewpoint.

Because the Qun is pretty awful,

 

But so is the Chantry.

Even Fereldan's nobility has Vaughn and Howe.

Even if we hate the various religious etc, I just don't think it should be the players/pc's place to try and "show them the correct path"

 

I wouldn't even mind if a character had a change organically through spending time with the protagonist. I just don't like the idea of doing it through dialogue. Telling somebody "Your way of life is a lie, your religion is wrong and evil" not only seems very petty, but I doubt you could ever really change someone's entire world view just through one or two conversations.

[Willowhugger]

Even if we hate the various religious etc, I just don't think it should be the players/pc's place to try and "show them the correct path"

 

I wouldn't even mind if a character had a change organically through spending time with the protagonist. I just don't like the idea of doing it through dialogue. Telling somebody "Your way of life is a lie, your religion is wrong and evil" not only seems very petty, but I doubt you could ever really change someone's entire world view just through one or two conversations.

Eh, sometimes it happens. I left fundamentalism for liberal Christianity after I talked to someone but it is very-very unlikely.

It's more like Merril and a Rivalry path.

[Gtdef]

To be fair, I'm more forgiving about this because I mentally thought of her as Joyce from the Shorpacked webcomic.

Also, many people I know in RL. There is a STAGGERING number of fundamentalists (I come from the Bible Belt) who have a mental filter about the darker elements of their beliefs.

 

And are exactly the sort of people who'd invite Mage Hawke/a Gay Man to join their Church without realizing the implications.

I don't know if they were going for the idea Tallis just doesn't think about the darker elements of the Qun.

 

She sounded more apologetic than hypocrite. This leads me to believe that she has a grasp of the more questionable elements of the doctrine. Which is pretty much why I think she is inconsistent. On one hand she is apologetic, on the other she doesn't even display the attractive qualities of being a Qunari which is discipline, respect, certainty, If anything she comes off as an activist for human rights. Which leads me to the question. Why is she introduced as a Qunari? What is the link other than being called a Qunari?

[Willowhugger]

She sounded more apologetic than hypocrite. This leads me to believe that she has a grasp of the more questionable elements of the doctrine. Which is pretty much why I think she is inconsistent. On one hand she is apologetic, on the other she doesn't even display the attractive qualities of being a Qunari which is discipline, respect, certainty, If anything she comes off as an activist for human rights. Which leads me to the question. Why is she introduced as a Qunari? What is the link other than being called a Qunari?

 

I dunno. There's room for people who are grateful to the Chantry/Qun which are completely at odds with it in many ways.

Like Leliana.

[Augustei]

It depends on how we're going to be changing her viewpoint.

Because the Qun is pretty awful,

 

But so is the Chantry.

Even Fereldan's nobility has Vaughn and Howe.

You say that like most of Fereldens nobility is good? LOL
The Banns constantly fight wars with each other over pointless things like trees (Yeah, they literally fought a war over a tree).
They think the best time to start a civil war against the crown is in the middle of a blight,
Then theres people like Eamon who don't want filthy commoners on the throne even if they are proven to be extremely competent and have been running the country for the past 5 years
Fereldens nobility itself is a problem, crown needs to reign em' in, break their power....The Bannorns anyway
 

[Gtdef]

I dunno. There's room for people who are grateful to the Chantry/Qun which are completely at odds with it in many ways.

Like Leliana.

 

Yet Leliana is consistent. Not only because she actually believes in the Maker, but because she behaves like a person that got touched by it. We can observe her dilemma and the trouble finding her place between her old life and the new. Even the reason she joins is directly tied to this. She may have lied about the vision, but she is true to the principle of sacrifice for the greater good that chantry has going for itself. That's a matter of perspective I guess, but I think the old Leliana wouldn't do this. She was concerned more about Marjolaine than the security of her country for example. And from there she ends up lying in order to be allowed to fight at the front lines of a terrible threat.

 

I can't see something similar in Tallis' behavior. And I think that the whole "acting because she is a spy and doesn't want to reveal information about herself" is an excuse. She is actually forced to reveal her true identity and purpose. There isn't any change in her attitude. A glimpse of her "real" self hidden, nor it would make much sense since her quest is personal. She doesn't even need to reveal anything about the Qunari. She doesn't feel like a person that got influenced rather than a person forced into it and tried her best to keep her identity intact. I don't even understand her dilemma.

[Willowhugger]

You say that like most of Fereldens nobility is good? LOL
The Banns constantly fight wars with each other over pointless things like trees (Yeah, they literally fought a war over a tree).
They think the best time to start a civil war against the crown is in the middle of a blight,
Then theres people like Eamon who don't want filthy commoners on the throne even if they are proven to be extremely competent and have been running the country for the past 5 years
Fereldens nobility itself is a problem, crown needs to reign em' in, break their power....The Bannorns anyway

 

I don't know, it's like getting a kick in the ass versus getting a kick in the junk.

 

Fereldan's nobility is pretty awful.

However, the Landsmeet prevents some of the worst excesses of the nobility like in Orlais.

It's just worst excesses don't apparently include purging the elves.

Ugh.

I need some Dwarven ale. *goes to get drunk with Wynne and Oghren*

[Star fury]

You say that like most of Fereldens nobility is good? LOL
The Banns constantly fight wars with each other over pointless things like trees (Yeah, they literally fought a war over a tree).
They think the best time to start a civil war against the crown is in the middle of a blight,
Then theres people like Eamon who don't want filthy commoners on the throne even if they are proven to be extremely competent and have been running the country for the past 5 years
Fereldens nobility itself is a problem, crown needs to reign em' in, break their power....The Bannorns anyway
 

Do you understand that Ferelden is a feudal kingdom in the medieval times? I think you don't. Ferelden is not a democracy.

[Augustei]

Do you understand that Ferelden is a feudal kingdom in the medieval times? I think you don't. Ferelden is not a democracy.

Never stated they were and whats your point? Because it sounds like you've just made a bunch of wrong assumptions and false conclusions on what I've just said.
Yes, they are a feudal kingdom...and? Does that change the fact their nobles are stupid? No

[Star fury]

Never stated they were and whats your point?

How do you think a commoner can become a king in a feudal kingdom? Win democratic elections and become a president with a free and equal elections right?

 

Bannorn revolting against Loghain's tyranny is an understandable, logical and realistic thing in DA:O.   

 

Banns infighting is an absolutely normal thing in medieval monarchy. Yeah, I'll give you that it's all impossible in a modern western democracy, but Ferelden is not a modern western country.

[Augustei]

How do you think a commoner can become a king in a feudal kingdom? Win democratic elections and become a president with a free and equal elections right?

 

Bannorn revolting against Loghain's tyranny is an understandable, logical and realistic thing in DA:O.   

 

Banns infighting is an absolutely normal thing in medieval monarchy. Yeah, I'll give you that it's all impossible in a modern western democracy, but Ferelden is not a modern western country.

Why do you keep coming back to democracy? I think nobles (I was taking a jab at the Mac Tir's dissidents for looking down on Anora since she's "New Money/Nobility") are elected like they are in elective monarchies... Which is ironic since Eamon plans on replacing the noble queen with A bastard, because he's a greedy power hungry *******

Bannorn revolting against Loghain during the blight was pure stupidity, not logical.

Just because its commonplace in the system doesn't excuse its stupidity, especially since Ferelden noble infighting is a whole nother' level of stupidity (Trees man!)

I'm not advocating any sort of Democracy your the one that keeps bringing it up, I'm not even for some sort of foolish idealistic push for a democracy in Ferelden.
Though I would certainly like for the crown to weaken the strengh of the lower ability, empower itself and work more with the higher nobility of the Coast. (Gwaren, Amaranthine, Highever etc etc.)
 

[humanatee]

...In other words, it made too many assumptions. It assumed that everyone would automatically be in love with her from the word go, so she came in at her end-stage cockiness and just assumed that the player would buy it about a character he or she had never met... But even then, the fight was her own, and she was the object of the attack. She didn't ride in guns ablazing and save a suddenly inept Hawke from getting his or her backside handed to him or her while Hawke stood around mouth breathing... Tallis takes away that player agency, and we're forced to sit there and watch while our characters are turned into simpletons. That doesn't leave a good impression.

 

Thank you so much for posting your thoughts. You put into words everything that I feel about MoTA but couldn't quite manage myself. Completely agree. 

[Willowhugger]

I just did a Tallis-heavy review of "Mark of the Assassin" if anyone is interested.

 

http://unitedfederat...sin-review.html

[Gtdef]

I just did a Tallis-heavy review of "Mark of the Assassin" if anyone is interested.

 

http://unitedfederat...sin-review.html

 

I generally like it. I'd phrase a few things differently but I agree with your points and the recommendation but ultimately I think that this says more about the vanilla game than the dlc.

[TTTX]

I just did a Tallis-heavy review of "Mark of the Assassin" if anyone is interested.

 

http://unitedfederat...sin-review.html

I agree with that review, it's very fair as a review should be.

[Willowhugger]

I agree with that review, it's very fair as a review should be.

 

I decided to catch up on reviewing the Dragon Age games and their DLC as well as tie-in fiction before Inquisition.

I didn't realize QUITE how much of a job that would be.

 

 

But thanks!

[SmilesJA]

I think she is inconsistent. her story is questionable. From how she got reinstated after her transgressions to her views. I don't mind her not wanting to kill mages on sight for example. That's to be expected from a spy. But to me it seems like she has no understanding of the path she follows which makes her concept of "juggling what she is and what she wants to be" weak.

 

She comes of as a generic exaggerated, free spirited and goodhearted person in a predicament. There is no weight to her character.

 

She is a Qunari spy. How much insight you got from her about what a Qunari spy is? Or even what a Qunari is?

 

Well I think she's loyal to the Qun even though necessarily agree with their methods. She follows them because she owes them for giving purpose in her life.

[Willowhugger]

Well I think she's loyal to the Qun even though necessarily agree with their methods. She follows them because she owes them for giving purpose in her life.

MotA makes it clear Tallis is on the verge of being kicked out if she hasn't already, actually.

[animedreamer]

I dont know how i feel about the character, i played Mark of the Assassin multiple times, but never felt a connection with the character, though if i recall correctly she had a hella overpowered skill tree.

[The Baconer]

I dont know how i feel about the character, i played Mark of the Assassin multiple times, but never felt a connection with the character, though if i recall correctly she had a hella overpowered skill tree.

 

Too bad Cloak didn't work when I needed it the most. ****ing Sky Horror.

[Grieving Natashina]

Um, no thank you.  For one, I wasn't that enamored with her as a character.   I'm usually not a fan of NPCs taking over party spots to begin with, which sadly puts one mark against her favor right away.  The flirts seemed to have come out of nowhere and I was left with the impression that I had to like Tallis.

 

For another, not only did I disagree with her visions of the Qun (which I could at least state,) I wasn't allowed to question her about the Qun's role for mages (whether to agree as a Templar Hawke or disagree with as a Mage Hawke.)  That is something that still bothers me even now about the whole DLC she's attached to.

 

Also, her design was too Uncanny Valley for me.  She looked too much like Felicia Day as an elf.  Every pore, every mole, every errant strand of the actress' sodding eyebrows was recreated.  My problem isn't that Tallis looked like Felicia Day, it was that they seemed to be trying too hard to achieve that affect.  Hawke him/herself doesn't have nearly as much attention to detail to their face and they are the main character.

 

I'm not going to use terms like favoritism because while I can see where some posters are coming from, I don't entirely agree with that assessment.

 

Still, my impression my first time I played the DLC:

 

Tallis: "The Qun isn't all warriors.  It's farmers, craftsmen, people you wouldn't expect."

 

Me (mage Hawke): That's all well and good, but how about the way you treat mages?  Can't I say something?

 

Tallis: "The Qun have a vision of the way life should be."

 

Me: That vision would involve me having my lips and possibly eyes sown shut, as well as in chains.  You do realize that according to your beliefs, you could be slain for spending so much time talking to a mage, right?  

 

Me: Anything about demons being able to ride my very words?  Damn it game,  let me say something! 

 

Tallis: "A lot of innocent people will die."

 

Me: So, that's just sodding great.  As a mage, I'm not allowed to question this.      Let me try this as a Templar.  Perhaps I'll get a chance to at least agree with her.

 

<returns some hours later, aggressive fully anti-mage pro-Templar, Templar spec>

 

Me: Okay, still nothing.  This seems like a big honking deal that the player can't comment on.  It just makes Tallis look like she's on the right no matter what.  I'm now very happy that I enjoyed the rest of the DLC, because this really stupid.   

[Jedi Master of Orion]

You know to be honest I suspect Arvaraad's reaction to learning he was talking to a mage (or that there is a mage nearby) is an overreaction even by Qunari standards. He's the only one to express such a sentiment and he's equally freaked out by talking to a non mage sibling of a mage as a mage in their own right.

[Jaison1986]

Meh, I thought I would hate Tallis after everyone raging of her being an self inserted Mary sue, and while it's mostly true, I didn't hated her half as much as I would expect. That being said, if she comes back in Inquisition I hope there is finally an chance to take that scroll from her, be it by good or ill. I certanly won't stand for Qunari spies roaming around.