The devs have been play-testing this for a year or more on all platforms.
If the tactics were broken this would not be like this.
It's a change, for sure.
But without playing the game you can't really evaluate its impact.
Yes exactly, they know more then anyone that it most likely works.
However, I do not like the planning aspect, the 8-limit abilities, select which poison to take with you, etc. I cannot see how it is going to work. It's been said there will be scouts and will tell us what we will face, but Im not sure Im gonna like it. I am afraid that this aspect will just end up with us mapping always the same abilities (the ones that are good in all situations) and selecting only the best poison (making the rest of them totally worthless). We will see how it ends.
Agreed...reminds me of the Witcher 2, where you had to take all your potions before you actually got into combat. Since you couldn't always predict what enemies you were going to find and when you were going to encounter them, it was easiest to just use a set of potions that did general buffs instead of carrying around a bunch of anti-specific-enemy potions.
There are several game mechanics that reinforce this:- Limited health regen
- Only 8 abilities available during combat
- Huge and versatile crafting system
- Limited amount of potions carried
- Limited amount of poisons/bombs carried
- Impossible to craft outside camps/settlements
- Huge areas to explore, in which we will be able to settle new camps, and then explore from there
What do you think about this new gameplay, totally new for Dragon Age? Do you like it? Think it fits?
I don't understand how the four highlighted limitations will be effective if we are allowed to fast travel at any time. Backtracking through a huge level would have been a major disincentive to recklessly using consumable items or taking damage, but if we can instantly travel back to town, there doesn't seem to be a reason to endure long stints with low supplies or health. These factors might come into play during timed missions like the Crestwood situation in the old demo, but if the majority of the game isn't like that, what is there to stop us from using fast travel to avoid these issues?
Reducing abilities to 8 has nothing to do with strategy.
The reason is probably MP related and if that is correct then this is much worse than the ME3 MP requirement to get the best ending.
yeah anything that happens in this game that is not well received is prolly to do with mp it is a well known fact.
I don't understand how the four highlighted limitations will be effective if we are allowed to fast travel at any time. Backtracking through a huge level would have been a major disincentive to recklessly using consumable items or taking damage, but if we can instantly travel back to town, there doesn't seem to be a reason to endure long stints with low supplies or health. These factors might come into play during timed missions like the Crestwood situation in the old demo, but if the majority of the game isn't like that, what is there to stop us from using fast travel to avoid these issues?
Fast travel might not be available except in base camps and towns. So when in the field you still might need to walk to these safe zones in order to fast travel. That and just fast traveling back and forth constantly is time consuming no matter how fast it is and so that's kind of a drag and deterrent itself, unless you're that much of a lazy/bad gamer, so you might as well just play on easy. There's no guarantee you'll have the resources or cash to constantly waste it on potions and other consumables. We've so far seen that we're back to collecting ingredients ourselves and not just finding sources for them like in DA2, so you might be expelling as many or almost as many potions fighting mobs while running around collecting ingredients as you are making them so you'll just end up wasting more of your time on top of having to constantly travel back and forth between the field and camps/towns. Plus BioWare has already stated that resources are somewhat finite, so if you collect all the elfroot in an area it will likely take some time before any grows back.
I think the biggest thing is that it's just removing that crutch some people rely on during battles instead of playing correctly and thinking about their tactics, especially boss battles and larger encounters. You'll only have 8 potions to help you out, after that you'll need to be smart about positioning your party, what abilities you use and how you manage aggro on weaker members.
In DAI, the gameplay has changed a lot again, it is different from DAO and DA2 altogether. In DAI, the gameplay will focus on planification, setting up the strategy before engaging in combat, or even exploring an area.
[...]
What do you think about this new gameplay, totally new for Dragon Age? Do you like it? Think it fits?
Fast travel might not be available except in base camps and towns. So when in the field you still might need to walk to these safe zones in order to fast travel.
Maybe... If I remembered which gameplay video I saw this in I could look it up, but it seemed like the Elder Scrolls style of fast travel. Of course, that could have been something they altered for the purposes of creating a demo... or it could be something they changed later on, considering the fact that the demos were made using old versions of the game. I hope there are some kind of fast travel restrictions though. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of placing so many restrictions on healing and item use...
I don't understand how the four highlighted limitations will be effective if we are allowed to fast travel at any time. Backtracking through a huge level would have been a major disincentive to recklessly using consumable items or taking damage, but if we can instantly travel back to town, there doesn't seem to be a reason to endure long stints with low supplies or health. These factors might come into play during timed missions like the Crestwood situation in the old demo, but if the majority of the game isn't like that, what is there to stop us from using fast travel to avoid these issues?
I agree, these limitations are not indicative of a game that requires better planning or anything like that. It speaks more of grinding levels to unlock more slots than anything else.
The 8 slot limitation as well, while there is a chance that it was designed that way, it can just be a bad attempt at making pc and console versions uniform. It could be something that adds depth or an annoyance that proves that the designer team is infested with clueless people. Too early to tell, as is saying that this is an attempt to make us plan ahead.
They're limiting potions again?There are several game mechanics that reinforce this:
- Limited health regen
- Only 8 abilities available during combat
- Huge and versatile crafting system
- Limited amount of potions carried
- Limited amount of poisons/bombs carried
- Impossible to craft outside camps/settlements
- Huge areas to explore, in which we will be able to settle new camps, and then explore from there
They're limiting potions again?
I hated that in DA2. I especially didn't like how the appearance of potions as loot was controlled by how many I had with me.
We will have a limited number of potions, but this can be increased by 1 if you unlock a specific "perk."
They're limiting potions again?
I hated that in DA2. I especially didn't like how the appearance of potions as loot was controlled by how many I had with me.
I think it's only 9 health potions on Easy and fewer as the difficulty increases, but it might be more than that, they said it in a video and I don't have the time nor patience to find it. But yeah it's not many.
I am curious as to whether or not other consumables like poisons and bombs are universal like potions are. That would be unfortunate because I always loved using bombs and poisons with my rogues and they don't have as much reason to be a party based asset like health/lyrium potions. But I have a feeling the radial menu and it's three slots for consumables is universal, hope I'm wrong though.
I think the biggest thing is that it's just removing that crutch some people rely on during battles instead of playing correctly and thinking about their tactics, especially boss battles and larger encounters. You'll only have 8 potions to help you out, after that you'll need to be smart about positioning your party, what abilities you use and how you manage aggro on weaker members.
Needing to play "correctly" implys that Bioware is forcing a specific playstyle. If that's the case, they need to be more forthcoming about what that playstyle entails, and the sooner, the better. I don't appreciate how some of the details are now coming out as the window closes for cancelling pre-orders.
We will have a limited number of potions, but this can be increased by 1 if you unlock a specific "perk."T
That suck . This make me miss the old Potion system of Neverwinter Night or even Diablo . Where I could drag tons of potions without having to worry at all . I understand 'its for realism' or even 'To not make it easy' ...but come on . It's an rpg game not a survival game .
I like all those changes (especially the health regeneration one) a lot. Except for the 8 Abilities... Is that confirmed? That would suck so bad, if there is one thing I hated about Dragon's Dogma it would be the horrible story / boring characters.
But I also really hated how we couldn't use all the abilities we learn, and we have to return to a freaking innkeeper to remind us that we know how to do something... and losing the ability to do something else. It doesn't make sense, it isn't fun, the old Da games weren't like that... It would really suck if they did that.
Needing to play "correctly" implys that Bioware is forcing a specific playstyle. If that's the case, they need to be more forthcoming about what that playstyle entails, and the sooner, the better. I don't appreciate how some of the details are now coming out as the window closes for cancelling pre-orders.
No it's not, Games are built around rules and gameplay is crafted to be used in certain ways. It's no different from save scumming or sleep spamming in BG2, well it's worse. Constantly running back and forth between camp and town to replenish health potions because you're bad at combat and rely too much on potions to survive encounters and thus need to circumvent the potion limit is you not playing the game as it was intended, because if you were playing the game right you wouldn't need to do all that extra stuff and 8 or whatever the amount of potions there is would be enough to get you through it.
It has nothing to do with BioWare forcing you into a certain play style. Only intending you to use abilities X,Y and Z on enemy G in a certain way or you fail. That's a completely different issue altogether.
That's why games like Pillars of Eternity are implementing things like limited number of camping kits which are necessary to sleep and restore health to the party out in the field, also dependent on your difficulty level, to stop them abusing a sleeping function in order to circumvent the intended style of play in combat and force them to be smarter about how they go about getting into fights and using their resources.
Needing to play "correctly" implys that Bioware is forcing a specific playstyle. If that's the case, they need to be more forthcoming about what that playstyle entails, and the sooner, the better. I don't appreciate how some of the details are now coming out as the window closes for cancelling pre-orders.
Given that they are either outrighting removing or severely limiting healing spells and have removed health regeneration, the potion cap makes sense as part of a cohesive game design that is encouraging you to prevent damage rather than react to it.
As for potion spamming, I never considered that a valid playstyle worth preserving in the first place. Imagine if Origins had a potion cap and DA2 removed it; it truly would have fit in with the whole "dumbing down the game" narrative fans who hated DA2 love to use.
The devs have been play-testing this for a year or more on all platforms.
If the tactics were broken this would not be like this.
It's a change, for sure.
But without playing the game you can't really evaluate its impact.
No it's not, Games are built around rules and gameplay is crafted to be used in certain ways. It's no different from save scumming or sleep spamming in BG2, well it's worse. Constantly running back and forth between camp and town to replenish health potions because you're bad at combat and rely too much on potions to survive encounters and thus need to circumvent the potion limit is you not playing the game as it was intended, because if you were playing the game right you wouldn't need to do all that extra stuff and 8 or whatever the amount of potions there is would be enough to get you through it.
It has nothing to do with BioWare forcing you into a certain play style. Only intending you to use abilities X,Y and Z on enemy G in a certain way or you fail. That's a completely different issue altogether.
In both real life and games, people use their brains to get ahead... if there is a glaring flaw in the system, you better believe I'm going to take advantage of that. How good or bad I am at the game has nothing to do with it. If I agreed with the philosophy behind severely limited health potions and the removal of most healing spells, that would be one thing. Since I don't, I see no reason to play by those rules if I can think up a way around them. Maybe you should look at it from different angles rather than cling to the notion that the only possible reason for wanting to avoid this crap is because people are "bad" at the game. 
I'm very excited about this deeper and more complex game! It's easy to start bitching about the limited this and limited that, but the Bioware team has been working on this game for almost 4 years! I'll put my faith in them that they know what they are doing and that they will deliver the best RPG experience ever.
Okay maybe putting a little too much pressure on the team.
I have faith in Bioware though.
I love their games and haven't been disappointed yet...
That said:
I'm sure there will be plenty of flaws like any other game.
I'm also sure that the forums will do a good job of pointing them out.
Correction: The devs have been testing this for a year or more in MP mode. The tactics never came under scrutiny there, since, in MP, it's four PCs. This means that they can't really tell us the impact either, since they tested and balanced in MP. You can peruse the MP Q&A for documentation of this, if you wish.
Are you actually claiming that the MP FAQ is saying the SP combat was never tested in SP? Because that's not what it says.
In both real life and games, people use their brains to get ahead... if there is a glaring flaw in the system, you better believe I'm going to take advantage of that. How good or bad I am at the game has nothing to do with it. If I agreed with the philosophy behind severely limited health potions and the removal of most healing spells, that would be one thing. Since I don't, I see no reason to play by those rules if I can think up a way around them. Maybe you should look at it from different angles rather than cling to the notion that the only possible reason for wanting to avoid this crap is because people are "bad" at the game.
You're free to do whatever you want, but if the game is balanced and designed right and you can't get through normal combat without abusing the health potions you are bad at the game, which isn't wrong, I'm bad at fighters and action games like DMC and Ninja Gaiden. If you simply choose to abuse the system that's your own decision, if you still find enjoyment in the game that way I really don't care how you play, but it doesn't change the fact that you are playing in a way the developers did not intend you to.
Are you actually claiming that the MP FAQ is saying the SP combat was never tested in SP? Because that's not what it says.
They could do better than an artificial limit.I think the biggest thing is that it's just removing that crutch some people rely on during battles instead of playing correctly and thinking about their tactics, especially boss battles and larger encounters. You'll only have 8 potions to help you out, after that you'll need to be smart about positioning your party, what abilities you use and how you manage aggro on weaker members.
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