Which is also, as a side note, why we as humans should leave Earth. Curiosity is important, but survival is even more important.
The Leviathan are so wonderful.
'Oh ****... our thralls are being killed by their machines... this is problematic.
Lets make a machine to solve the problem'.
Knowledge of the problem did not prevent the Quarians from creating the Geth.
Knowledge of the problem did not prevent the Quarians from creating the Geth.
Just develop AI purposely and controlled.
Like in a space station with no outside communcation. (which we obviously aren't doing now 
)
Yeah, I remember something about that mentioned in the Leviathan DLC. I just don't see how that could work. In Leviathan nobody could even get near them.
Correction: in Leviathan they had a surprise defense system of limited range that could be circumvented by other means. The Leviathans' survival hinged on hiding, not resisting approach- the Reapers could just blow up the sun and take other extreme measures.
And since they started the whole mind control/indoctrination thing, if the intelligence tried to use that on them they would just do it back & it would be a stalemate.
They can't mind control robots, which the Catalyst had in abundance, and they can't be everywhere to enthrall everyone at once. The Catalyst isn't as dependent on brainwashing as they are, had many other resources, and had the capaibility and opportunity for an overwhelming first strike.
And seeing as how they ran, hid & survived you'd think most of their species did the same thing & the intelligence couldn't get enough of them to create Harbinger. They managed to hide from the Reapers for billions of years, countless cycles.
Why would you think that?
A small number successfully hiding in no way implies that most of them successfully ran, successfuly hid, or successfully survived. The Leviathans that did survive did so by hiding in the depths of an unremarkable ocean on an utterly worthless water planet and by not drawing attention to themselves... and ending up in the same extinction boat with everyone else once attention was drawn to them.
Community: "We want a new ending to the story. It sucks. You promised us 16 wildly different endings, but all the endings are virtually identical except for the color of the explosions on your screen: you die; the relays explode; and the Normandy crashes. And my Shepard would have challenged that Star Child."
Staff Bioware writers: "Hmmm... It seems that a very large number of players are displeased with the huge plot hole and circular logic we created at the end of Mass Effect 3."
Lead Bioware writers: "Perhaps the community simply does not understand the meaning behind the colors. We should explain them."
Staff Bioware writers: "Then there is the problem of the Star Child itself. How did that get there?"
Lead Bioware writers: "You're right. What do you think we should do?"
Staff Bioware writers: "In addition to explaining the meaning behind the colors with a cheap slide show, and giving Shepard the option of challenging the Star Child; we have another problem: how do we explain the circular logic?"
Lead Bioware writers: "Simple. With more circular logic. And we need to come up with more DLC for this game as well. So why not write one about the origins of the Star Child. Let's just call them the Leviathans. We'll put them on a planet out in the ass end of nowhere."
Staff BW: "Good idea. Let's fill one gaping plot hole with another gaping plot hole. It really won't be any different than anything else in the series. It'll be fine until one thinks about it."
Leads: "Good. Let's get started!"
Writers: What answer do we give about the Crucible?
lead writers: Don't ask stupid questions. Were talking about Leviathan here. Get with the program. Besides we already have an answer for the crucible. There's just not enough time to explain it. Again. Get with the program folks.
The Leviathan are so wonderful.'Oh ****... our thralls are being killed by their machines... this is problematic.Lets make a machine to solve the problem'.
Have you ever gone to Red Lobster and wondered why the Leviathans were bein' harvested? I swear, this seafood is out of this world!
Have you ever gone to Red Lobster and wondered why the Leviathans were bein' harvested? I swear, this seafood is out of this world!
Dip it in garlic butter. Mmmmm Mmmmm good.
Have you ever gone to Red Lobster and wondered why the Leviathans were bein' harvested? I swear, this seafood is out of this world!
Is the floor made out of glass?
Is the floor made out of glass?
Not in America, they aren't.
Dip it in garlic butter. Mmmmm Mmmmm good.
I can't believe I went through Sovereign, the Geth, and the Collector, only to be taken out by dinner. This food is indoctrinating.
Like it's been said, the Catalyst had an army of pawns, which he turned on the Leviathans in a surprise attack, and used the pawns to harvest them and create Harbinger. It's likely that he used those same pawns in the early cycles until he had amassed a Reaper fleet big enough to take on anyone, those pawns are either now completely destroyed, shut down or in dark space.
As for why the Leviathans created the Catalyst after what they seen AI do to other races, it all comes down to hubris. The Leviathans were the apex race in the galaxy, a galaxy where they could bend anyone to their will, they saw themselves as Gods and above the cares of lesser species. They could not comprehend the possibility of one of their own creations turning on them, it was an impossible scenario in their eyes.
They were probably legit shook when the pawns of the Catalyst attacked.
Like it's been said, the Catalyst had an army of pawns, which he turned on the Leviathans in a surprise attack, and used the pawns to harvest them and create Harbinger. It's likely that he used those same pawns in the early cycles until he had amassed a Reaper fleet big enough to take on anyone, those pawns are either now completely destroyed, shut down or in dark space.
As for why the Leviathans created the Catalyst after what they seen AI do to other races, it all comes down to hubris. The Leviathans were the apex race in the galaxy, a galaxy where they could bend anyone to their will, they saw themselves as Gods and above the cares of lesser species. They could not comprehend the possibility of one of their own creations turning on them, it was an impossible scenario in their eyes.
They were probably legit shook when the pawns of the Catalyst attacked.
Except the galaxy doesn't bend to the Leviathan's will. The Leviathan Shepard meets says no matter what they did they could not stop the whole synthetic/organic problem themselves. The problem I have with the hubris defense is that the act of creating the Catalyst is a huge sign of humility on their part as it is an acknowledgement that there were events beyond their control.
Also, the basis of the Leviathan's power structure was controlling. Control was how they kept their empire intact. I doubt the more advanced races followed them out of some religious awe, they were probably being constantly controlled or put under threat of massive retaliation. I'm sure the Leviathan's knew this and I find it hard to believe they wouldn't put any sort of restriction on the Catalyst, especially after acknowledging that the whole synthetic thing was beyond their grasp.
Except the galaxy doesn't bend to the Leviathan's will. The Leviathan Shepard meets says no matter what they did they could not stop the whole synthetic/organic problem themselves. The problem I have with the hubris defense is that the act of creating the Catalyst is a huge sign of humility on their part as it is an acknowledgement that there were events beyond their control.
Also, the basis of the Leviathan's power structure was controlling. Control was how they kept their empire intact. I doubt the more advanced races followed them out of some religious awe, they were probably being constantly controlled or put under threat of massive retaliation. I'm sure the Leviathan's knew this and I find it hard to believe they wouldn't put any sort of restriction on the Catalyst, especially after acknowledging that the whole synthetic thing was beyond their grasp.
The problem I have with your problem is that it is directly contradicted in-game by the Leviathans:
"You cannot conceive of a galaxy that bends to your will."
"The Intelligence was envisioned as simply another tool."
Doesn't sound humble. Sounds like an arrogant species that thought they could control a post-singularity machine when no one else could do so, just like they controlled everything else. So yeah, this is a classic example of downfall brought about by hubris.
And yeah, as others say the Catalyst used advanced AI war drones and the element of surprise mixed with overwhelming force. For the people asking how it could this could have defeated something as powerful as the Leviathan, it's the same way the Geth could defeat the Quarians. Being more intelligent and more advanced just means that they could create an AI as far beyond the Geth as they were beyond the Quarians. So they were still outclassed. That's basically the central premise of the games, and a fact of the ME universe: that people will always create machines that for the purpose of outstripping them in order to expand their own limits, and this eventually results in conflict. Sometimes because the machines decide that organics are sub-optimal, sometimes because fear of their creations drives organics to attack. The Leviathans were no different, and fell victim to the first.
I may be a minority on this forum, but I'm actually okay with that as a premise. Execution was initially disappointing to me, and eventually meh, but I'm fine with that central logic. Would it be necessarily true in the real world? Who knows. Humanity as a whole certainly doesn't since we're not there. Maybe it will prove true. But that isn't really relevant. It's a premise I can accept in someone's fictional world. If I needed everything in a fiction story to conform with things we actually can and do know, I'd never read, play, or watch anything. When you sit down to pick nits, you can destroy every story ever written.
Maybe the Leviathans are just kinda dumb. When you've got Indoctrination, who needs brains? See, for instance, Larry Niven's thrintun.
Pretty much. We never really get much to show us that they're some kind of vast intelligence, only that they're capable of harnessing the minds of others around them. They're basically like the thorian, just without the need to infect people with spores. Considering their physical limitations, their thralls probably built everything comprising the Intelligence anyway.
I want a leviiathan character in multiplayer plz biovar.
Pretty much. We never really get much to show us that they're some kind of vast intelligence, only that they're capable of harnessing the minds of others around them. They're basically like the thorian, just without the need to infect people with spores. Considering their physical limitations, their thralls probably built everything comprising the Intelligence anyway.
I think there's a difference between not being vastly intelligent and just being cosmically stupid.
Also, their power alone doesn't seem to be enough to hold a galactic empire together. Like we see that blocking the orbs is pretty simple, wouldn't the Leviathan's have to insure some sort of go around; not to mention the logistical business of making sure important people are kept in check. I always figured they were like Stephen Hawkings with mind control powers; other wise intelligent except for their plot required epic blunder. I think there is some precedence for this considering the series is chalk full of 'smart' people who do dumb... really dumb things. Looking at you TIMothy.
The Catalyst did. And out of the Leviathans was born the first reaper. Perfect in it's design. Wise. Powerful and Huge.
It's known as Harbinger.
Just develop AI purposely and controlled.
Like in a space station with no outside communcation. (which we obviously aren't doing now
The funny thing is that as EDI demonstrated the answer is literally as simple as installing obedience shackles in the AI. That's it.
Although on the other hand, that she knew enough to tell Joker to uninstall the shackles means they aren't 100% effective.
The funny thing is that as EDI demonstrated the answer is literally as simple as installing obedience shackles in the AI. That's it.
Although on the other hand, that she knew enough to tell Joker to uninstall the shackles means they aren't 100% effective.
Yeah that's Mass Effect AI, but we shifted into real life AI.
I prefer my Leviathans fried and lightly seasoned...
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