58 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

The Leviathan shep meets on 2181 Despoina is an incredibly small sample size of the Leviathan society during their 'cycle'. Hell, any description of life-back-then that it gives you is based on, what...passed down memories?

And the conversation with shep is mainly about the reapers and the catalyst, so we never really learn anything concrete about Leviathan. It's ALL open to speculation, heh.

 

Also the Leviathans Shepard meets are the descendants of the survivors of the first extinction cycle, rather than actual survivors. Anything about the first extinction cycle is history rather than first hand experience. Considering their civilization went post-apocalyptic and there have been billions of years (and probably counltess generations) since, it's always possible that the Leviathans don't know the complete history of that era. Some details might have been lost. The current Leviathans may not even know who or what those pawns were.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Just develop AI purposely and controlled.

 

Like in a space station with no outside communcation. (which we obviously aren't doing now )

 

Well even that can end up badly.

[SilJeff]

Mass Effect Origins: Leviathan confirmed?

[JeffZero]

Honestly... I did.

 

Sorry.

[RiouHotaru]

I'm amazed people ask this question like the game didn't flat out tell you in uncertain terms:

 

The Catalyst and it's "army of pawns" harvested the Leviathans.

 

They used the material to make Harbinger, and from Harbinger, further refined and developed the Reapers, hence why we have Destroyers, Processors, etc.

[RiouHotaru]

Except the galaxy doesn't bend to the Leviathan's will. The Leviathan Shepard meets says no matter what they did they could not stop the whole synthetic/organic problem themselves. The problem I have with the hubris defense is that the act of creating the Catalyst is a huge sign of humility on their part as it is an acknowledgement that there were events beyond their control.

 

Also, the basis of the Leviathan's power structure was controlling. Control was how they kept their empire intact. I doubt the more advanced races followed them out of some religious awe, they were probably being constantly controlled or put under threat of massive retaliation. I'm sure the Leviathan's knew this and I find it hard to believe they wouldn't put any sort of restriction on the Catalyst, especially after acknowledging that the whole synthetic thing was beyond their grasp.

But the Hubris defense is literally explained in-game.  They only conceived of the Catalyst as "another tool" and were surprised when it turned on them.  Even the Catalyst states that it's creators "lacked the foresight to recognize they were a part of the problem they were trying to solve." (Or something to that effect)

 

The Leviathans were so full of themselves that they didn't stop to think even once when they asked the Catalyst to "solve the problem" that they would be included in the calculations.  They honestly believed themselves exempt because they were the head honchos in the galaxy and didn't even bother to assign any sort of operational oversight to the Catalyst.   They acknowledged that the other races built synthetics to improve their lives and help them.  But the Leviathans had no such need.

 

Also, if the thrall races were "constantly controlled" they'd never build synthetics.  There's clearly an almost Prothean-esque mentality (join willingly or be enslaved) and I guess most chose the former.

[themikefest]

Levaithan had the big head. Everything they say and did was right no matter what others thought.

[ImaginaryMatter]

But the Hubris defense is literally explained in-game.  They only conceived of the Catalyst as "another tool" and were surprised when it turned on them.  Even the Catalyst states that it's creators "lacked the foresight to recognize they were a part of the problem they were trying to solve." (Or something to that effect)

 

The Leviathans were so full of themselves that they didn't stop to think even once when they asked the Catalyst to "solve the problem" that they would be included in the calculations.  They honestly believed themselves exempt because they were the head honchos in the galaxy and didn't even bother to assign any sort of operational oversight to the Catalyst.   They acknowledged that the other races built synthetics to improve their lives and help them.  But the Leviathans had no such need.

 

Also, if the thrall races were "constantly controlled" they'd never build synthetics.  There's clearly an almost Prothean-esque mentality (join willingly or be enslaved) and I guess most chose the former.

 

Okay, except I'm questioning the legitimacy of that claim. As I said the Leviathans acknowledged that solving the organic/synthetic problem was beyond their power and created the Catalyst. Next to the statement about the galaxy bending to the Leviathans will the Leviathan Shepard meets talks about how the galaxy didn't bend to their will ("We could not protect them from themselves"). Also, somewhat apart from that, this is similar to the problem ME2 runs into with the overly apathetic/ignorant shtick with the Council and the Alliance. It's terrible characterization, in addition to all the contrivances it leads to.

 

Also, the Catalyst didn't solve the core of the Leviathan's problem (simply the vague conditions of it's programming, I guess). The Leviathan's didn't run the whole Catalyst plan out of love for the other races, they wanted to maintain the tribute gravy boat. And the Catalyst nuked that whole plan. I guess you could the Leviathan spouting off the thing about how they didn't make a mistake is further proof of their arrogance; however, given all the stuff I said in my first paragraph, I think that statement is something worse and 4th wall breaking.

[Basher of Glory]

The Leviathans were harvested by their arrogance.

 

A human is certainly "beyond the comprehension" of an ant. Often enough the ants did not care about the comprehension-thing and ate one.