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[IntoTheDarkness]

There are shoottons of plot holes in ME3, almost unprecedented in narrative gaming history.

 

Are there any plot holes that has escaped your memory during last 2 years, those you could only recall if you think really hard?

 

I have a couple which I just recalled today while reading posts I wrote 2 years ago.

 

 

1. Reapers didn't shut down relays when they secured the citadel. They basically 'invited' sword fleet to earth with crucible. They could have even utilized it by shutting down relays while Sword fleets are jumping, to cut them in half. This is even more shocker in realization that the allied fleet's plan to assault earth was IMPOSSIBLE plan to carry out if reapers had shut down the relay. It would have been hilarious if all fleets gathered at the end of ME3, then Hacket gives a speech, then somebody tells admiral Hacket that: "Sir, the relays are all offline. Our fleets are trapped in this system until reapers deem it appropriate to release us from their custody, Sir." and Hacket replies:

"Send the reapers a request to release us so we could attack them at earth! Hurry, god damn it, time's running out until the reapers find out what we are upto!"

 

 

2. star child refused to help Sovereign for over 1000 years. At any point in this period he could have opened the relay for the reapers. He didn't.

 

 

3. reapers refused to wake up and travel to milky galaxy, which takes 2.5 years max, for for 1000 years, waiting for sovereign to open the citadel relay.

 

 

 

 

Anything you could recall with some efforts?

[von uber]

Placing a bomb that is so small it only makes a lift shake in the Ardat-Yakshi monastery served no purpose whatsoever apart from getting a load of commandos killed.

 

The place should have gone up in a nuclear fire like on Pragia or Virmire.

[DeathScepter]

the truth is there is no starbrat, there is no ME3 there is only you and Harbringer on the asteroid and he is trolling you until total indoctrination. Play to break.

[JasonShepard]

I take issue with the first sentence. 'Unprecedented in narrative gaming history'? Sorry, but... there are games with far more plot-holes than ME3.

 

As for plot holes... I don't want to join in on a "Let's bash Mass Effect" thread, so I'll just push a funny one. When the heck does Shepard ever eat? I'm not even sure he got to eat anything at that Sushi place before the Mercs showed up and broke the fish tank...

[Iakus]

Thousands if not tens of thousands of Sovereigns running amok in the galaxy, and order of magnitude more Destroyer-class Reapers.

Galaxy doesn't fall in an hour.

 

 

Arrival buys the galaxy another few months, which were pretty much urinated away.  So...what was accomplished?

[IntoTheDarkness]

I take issue with the first sentence. 'Unprecedented in narrative gaming history'? Sorry, but... there are games with far more plot-holes than ME3.

 

As for plot holes... I don't want to join in on a "Let's bash Mass Effect" thread, so I'll just push a funny one. When the heck does Shepard ever eat? I'm not even sure he got to eat anything at that Sushi place before the Mercs showed up and broke the fish tank...

 

I don't know. ME3 is certainly not a game with bad stories in RPG average standard, but there are just so many plot holes numbering over several dozens that I doubt any game would be able to match that in sheer number. Almost every scene in ME3, from the beginning to Kai Leng to the end, are non-sensical IMO.

 

I wouldn't want to know what he eats, lest I will have to wonder when he shits. Come to think of it, wasn't their a toilet Janitor-cook guy in ME2 who was voiced by Udina? It would have bene funny if I could converse about what kind of foods I eat in the game.

[Vazgen]

There are shoottons of plot holes in ME3, almost unprecedented in narrative gaming history.

 

Are there any plot holes that has escaped your memory during last 2 years, those you could only recall if you think really hard?

 

I have a couple which I just recalled today while reading posts I wrote 2 years ago.

 

 

1. Reapers didn't shut down relays when they secured the citadel. They basically 'invited' sword fleet to earth with crucible. They could have even utilized it by shutting down relays while Sword fleets are jumping, to cut them in half. This is even more shocker in realization that the allied fleet's plan to assault earth was IMPOSSIBLE plan to carry out if reapers had shut down the relay. It would have been hilarious if all fleets gathered at the end of ME3, then Hacket gives a speech, then somebody tells hacket that: "Sir, the relays are all offline. Our fleets are trapped in this system until reapers deem it appropriate to release us from their custody, Sir."

 

 

2. star child refused to help Sovereign for over 1000 years. At any point in this period he could have opened the relay for the reapers. He didn't.

 

 

3. reapers refused to wake up and travel to milky galaxy, which takes 2.5 years max, for for 1000 years, waiting for sovereign to open the citadel relay.

 

 

 

 

Anything you could recall with some efforts?

For the first point, Reapers keep relays open for quick troop movement. They can send out reinforcements to any corner of the galaxy quite fast. Without the relays it will take longer. Plus, I think, communication will be harder without the relays.

 

For the second point, star child opened the relays with the help of the keepers who were reprogrammed by the Protheans. As for why did they make it so there is a delay in 50000 years, the answer is the same as to why they don't destroy all organic life at once. There is a three part analysis at gamefront.com which I found quite interesting: http://goo.gl/Es9cAK

 

For the third point, see point 2.

 

I don't think ME3 has so many plotholes that it can count as "almost unprecedented in narrative gaming history". There are some, yes, for example, ending up on a planet after dropping out of FTL, that pulse wave, adding thermal clips.

[IntoTheDarkness]

For the first point, Reapers keep relays open for quick troop movement. They can send out reinforcements to any corner of the galaxy quite fast. Without the relays it will take longer. Plus, I think, communication will be harder without the relays.

 

For the second point, star child opened the relays with the help of the keepers who were reprogrammed by the Protheans. As for why did they make it so there is a delay in 50000 years, the answer is the same as to why they don't destroy all organic life at once. There is a three part analysis at gamefront.com which I found quite interesting: http://goo.gl/Es9cAK

 

For the third point, see point 2.

 

I don't think ME3 has so many plotholes that it can count as "almost unprecedented in narrative gaming history". There are some, yes, for example, ending up on a planet after dropping out of FTL, that pulse wave, adding thermal clips.

1. How about shutting the relays "as they've done in previous cycles and against protheans" to trap allied fleets in a distant system? At least don't mention that the reapers used that tactics if they are not going to use it in the game.

 

2. Star child 'controls' the reapers. Why didn't Soveregin know about the sabotage attempt or its results for thousands of years? Why did Soveregin investigate this when Star Child saw everything and could simply have informed Soveregin or control Sovereign to dock Citadel and re-purpose the keepers before any species find the citadel?

 

I've felt disturbed by ME3's constant asspulls and plotholes throughout the game. I can easily come up with at least 20 plot holes off my head without much difficulty. Bioware dropped their ball hard with ME3, imo.

[Vazgen]

1. How about shutting the relays "as they've done in previous cycles and against protheans" to trap allied fleets in a distant system? At least don't mention that the reapers used that tactics if they are not going to use it in the game.

 

2. Star child 'controls' the reapers. Why didn't Soveregin know about the sabotage attempt or its results for thousands of years? Why did Soveregin investigate this when Star Child saw everything and could simply have informed Soveregin or control Sovereign to dock Citadel and re-purpose the keepers before any species find the citadel?

 

I've felt disturbed by ME3's constant asspulls and plotholes throughout the game. I can easily come up with at least 20 plot holes off my head without much difficulty. Bioware dropped their ball hard with ME3, imo.

As I recall, there is no mention about them shutting down the relays during the Prothean harvest. Javik mentions that they fought them "from system to system, world to world, and city to city" but it doesn't mean that the relays didn't work. 

 

The whole point of Protheans' plan was not to let the star child know about the hack. They knew about his existence and understood much more about the Crucible than humans. I believe they were able to jam the child's signal and reprogram the keepers. They were able to create a mass relay after all, the small version on the Citadel.

 

I enjoyed the game and continue to do so. For me it was a success and I look forward to ME4. It's not great as it could've been but it's not bad either - I played bad games...

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Thousands if not tens of thousands of Sovereigns running amok in the galaxy, and order of magnitude more Destroyer-class Reapers.

Galaxy doesn't fall in an hour.

 

More like 200-300 Sovereigns. Who focus on harvesting populations instead of military victory. 

[Han Shot First]

I take issue with the first sentence. 'Unprecedented in narrative gaming history'? Sorry, but... there are games with far more plot-holes than ME3.

 

 

Like Mass Effect 1 for instance. 

[IntoTheDarkness]

Like Mass Effect 1 for instance. 

Does ME1 take plot holes and slap it across your face every 20 min as ME3 does? I wasn't aware of that.

[DeinonSlayer]

Placing a bomb that is so small it only makes a lift shake in the Ardat-Yakshi monastery served no purpose whatsoever apart from getting a load of commandos killed.

The place should have gone up in a nuclear fire like on Pragia or Virmire.

It'd have been the easiest thing in the world to KEW it from orbit. Really, unless there was some vital intel or personnel to be retrieved from there (sorry Falere), it's worth no more attention than a potshot from a passing frigate. No need to throw away as many commandos as Asari High Command did.

Same applies to that N7 mission, Cerberus Lab. Why, Hackett, would you keep throwing troops at it after Shepard's raid? It's a processing center used to churn out enemy soldiers. If you don't intend to capture and hold it, zap the place from orbit and move on.

[ZipZap2000]

I got over the plot holes after EC and just play the game, it's good for a laugh every now and then but plot holers take it more seriously than ITers.

[DeinonSlayer]

I got over the plot holes after EC and just play the game, it's good for a laugh every now and then but plot holers take it more seriously than ITers.

It's not something to get angry about, especially this long after release. It's just amusing in a Jenga sort of way to double back and take a look at these things.

[Iakus]

More like 200-300 Sovereigns. Who focus on harvesting populations instead of military victory. 

 

A billion years +1 Sovereign per 50k years=something closer to 20,000 than 200

[Steelcan]

Plot Holes in general aren't something I get too upset about, unless they start messing up the plot itself

[Jorji Costava]

I dunno; there are probably more egregious plot holes in the 30 second intro to Blaster Master (I love that game BTW) than in all of ME3. At any rate, I could never understand how plot hole policing became such an internet phenomenon. You need a lot of ingredients to get a game to go right: Tone, pacing, characterization, etc. At some point, the internet, in its infinite wisdom, decided that plot consistency is the #1 most important ingredient of any story, whereas I would rank it closer to the bottom of the list.

 

It's not that it doesn't matter at all; some things really can break your suspension of disbelief, but the excessive focus on plot holes reeks of confabulation IMO; we don't notice the plot holes in things we like (even though they're almost certainly there to be found), and we do notice the plot holes in the things we don't like, but the real reasons why we like or don't like something generally have little to do with the plot holes themselves.

[Han Shot First]

Does ME1 take plot holes and slap it across your face every 20 min as ME3 does? I wasn't aware of that.

 

The first game has by far the largest plot hole in the series. People tend to ignore it however, because there was no ending controversy prompting the fine toothed comb treatment. Also, dat nostalgia.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

A billion years +1 Sovereign per 50k years=something closer to 20,000 than 200

That's assuming no casualties. 

Which is just not happening. The Turians killed a lot of them at Palaven. 

There at 77 at Earth, which admittedly is a cut scene. As there are no standing figures for the amount, it isn't much of plot hole. 

That's not saying ME3 doesn't have a fuckton of plotholes. 

[Aimi]

It'd have been the easiest thing in the world to KEW it from orbit. Really, unless there was some vital intel or personnel to be retrieved from there (sorry Falere), it's worth no more attention than a potshot from a passing frigate. No need to throw away as many commandos as Asari High Command did.

Same applies to that N7 mission, Cerberus Lab. Why, Hackett, would you keep throwing troops at it after Shepard's raid? It's a processing center used to churn out enemy soldiers. If you don't intend to capture and hold it, zap the place from orbit and move on.

In general, the games don't display a great deal of familiarity with...optimally structured military operations.

I don't consider the instances of this to be "plot holes", necessarily. They're flaws, but they don't make the games' narrative internally inconsistent.

[Iakus]

That's assuming no casualties. 

Which is just not happening. The Turians killed a lot of them at Palaven. 

There at 77 at Earth, which admittedly is a cut scene. As there are no standing figures for the amount, it isn't much of plot hole. 

That's not saying ME3 doesn't have a fuckton of plotholes. 

Assuming the Reapers are totally incompetent at their job of "preserving" organic life, and lose half the Reapers they build, that's still 10,000+

 

And that's not including the destroyers

[IntoTheDarkness]

I dunno; there are probably more egregious plot holes in the 30 second intro to Blaster Master (I love that game BTW) than in all of ME3. At any rate, I could never understand how plot hole policing became such an internet phenomenon. You need a lot of ingredients to get a game to go right: Tone, pacing, characterization, etc. At some point, the internet, in its infinite wisdom, decided that plot consistency is the #1 most important ingredient of any story, whereas I would rank it closer to the bottom of the list.

 

It's not that it doesn't matter at all; some things really can break your suspension of disbelief, but the excessive focus on plot holes reeks of confabulation IMO; we don't notice the plot holes in things we like (even though they're almost certainly there to be found), and we do notice the plot holes in the things we don't like, but the real reasons why we like or don't like something generally have little to do with the plot holes themselves.

 

The plot integrity and its suspension of disbelief a main reason I could love a story. IMO, characters, pacing, tones, dialogues all become less believable and silly if plot itself doesn't make much sense.

 

For instance, if Harbinger doens't blow Normandy up when Normandy is hovering right in front of it, it just makes me automatically give the screen the middle finger and thereafter laugh at trageties  such as Anderson dying because that plothole just made the game a comedy and I cannot get immersed in the experience as it reminded me how cheap a fiction show it really is. The same goes with other factors such as characters, pacing tones, dialogues.

 

Plot integrity is something that ties everything together and writers should do best to avoid plot holes. ME3's 12 set of professional writers didn't even bother to stop and consider for 1 sec before making plots and it shows.

 

I understand if it's not perfect. The problem with ME3 is that there are simply too many plotholes that I can't fstop laughing every 20 minute. It it were half as frequent, I would probably have liked the game much more than now.

[ZipZap2000]

*sigh* If harbinger blew up the Normandy what do you think people would be complaining about right now? The fact that there are plot holes? Or the fact that the game ends with harbinger blowing up the Normandy and everybody dies on the beam run?

 

At some point you have stop saying "that's unrealistic" in a game about 2km long space squids and enjoy the game instead of looking for things that don't make sense (to you).

[Iakus]

*sigh* If harbinger blew up the Normandy what do you think people would be complaining about right now? The fact that there are plot holes? Or the fact that the game ends with harbinger blowing up the Normandy and everybody dies on the beam run?

 

At some point you have stop saying "that's unrealistic" in a game about 2km long space squids and enjoy the game instead of looking for things that don't make sense (to you).

 

That state of mind has been called “willing suspension of disbelief.”  But this does not seem to me a good description of what happens. What really happens is that the story-maker proves a successful “sub-creator.”  He makes a Secondary World which your mind can enter. Inside it, what he relates is “true”: it accords with the laws of that world.  You therefore believe it, while you are, as it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises, the spell is broken; the magic, or rather art, has failed. You are then out in the Primary World again, looking at the little abortive Secondary World from outside. If you are obliged, by kindliness or circumstance, to stay, then disbelief must be suspended (or stifled), otherwise listening and looking would become intolerable. 

 

J. R. R. Tolkien